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MDPV - So how dangerous is it?

mdpv doesnt release much or any serotonin so its definetly way safer than mdma.

We can also count in all these people who consumed many grams of this stuff in less than a week. Safety profile for short term mdpv should be pretty good as long as method of use doesnt create additional problems. Vaporizing anyone?

The comedown from a long binge is exactly same as with methylphenidate (ritalin) which also would lead me to believe safety profile would be pretty close with ritalin

Id like to know how much more damage does vaporizing do compared to oral use
 
I doubt it's that much more toxic than methylphenidate. Seems like a pretty run of the mill NDRI, with more emphasis on the N aspect.
 
vecktor said:
Don't dismiss Ricaurte. His group made a genuine mistake, then when it was discovered published a retraction and apology, this is very rare amongst researchers, mostly when they fuck up they keep quiet and hope no-one notices. The amount of bullshit research in the literature is depressing.
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that wasn't the only thing with him.

he's also the man behind this correlation graph and the infamous brain scans.

sure the brain scans are science mangled by government propaganda, but he does come to strange conclusions in his work that's more or less consistent with the propaganda.
and the correllation graph would never pass a χ2 test. i wonder how he even got that one accepted by a journal.
 
I've started taking MDPV sporadically as a general stimulant to increase my productivity and focus at times when I need it or it comes in handy.

Basically the reason I'm taking an unresearched drug produced in an unregulated lab in south-east asia is because I am unable to obtain a prescription for simple d-amphetamine given my lack of clinical necessity.

I've always been aware of amphetamine abuse causing toxicity in dopaminergic neurons but I didn't think low dose use would be a problem. I believe it was Nuke who said back in this thread that even low doses of amphetamine cause dopaminergic toxicity.

This of course has me concerned even though I am not taking amphetamine (may in the future) but am taking MDPV which indeed causes increased dopamine levels.

If folks could elaborate on the toxicity of low dose amphetamines or related drugs and how much worse it is than if one were to consume an active dose of caffeine per day (another drug known to increase dopamine levels and cause CNS stimulation).
 
^ If anything that made dopamine levels rise was neurotoxic, then that would cover sex and I think it's a fucked up evolutionary imperative that makes reproducing your species neurotoxic. Basically it's only going to be of concern with drugs that cause dopamine release (eg amphet, meth, MDMA) rather than plain reuptake inhibitors - well that's my twopennethworth
 
fastandbulbous said:
^ If anything that made dopamine levels rise was neurotoxic, then that would cover sex and I think it's a fucked up evolutionary imperative that makes reproducing your species neurotoxic. Basically it's only going to be of concern with drugs that cause dopamine release (eg amphet, meth, MDMA) rather than plain reuptake inhibitors - well that's my twopennethworth
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Hmmm... While I understand what u are saying, and technically u are right, I think this is not a great comparison to make, as it is a bit misleading.

I understand u are saying that just bc something raises dopamine levels, it does not necessarily mean its neurotoxic, since many activities in day to day life which bring joy, also raise dopamine levels, and these things are clearly not neurotoxic.

However, I think a CRUCIAL distinction which must be made is the degree to which many of these dopaminergic drugs raise dopamine levels, as compared to the degree that activities like sex raise these levels. Even the most mind blowing sex will not cause dopamine levels to rise anywhere NEAR what even a mild dose of a dopaminergic drug will. Like most recreational drugs, dopaminergics like MDPV cause a release (or prevent the re-uptake) of chemicals (in this case, dopamine), which occur naturally in the brain. However, it is important to note that drugs like these basically "hijack" your brain, and cause levels of these natural chemicals to reach levels which could never be reached via the simple experiences of day to day life which cause comparatively tiny changes in the levels of these chemicals.

I actually suspect that in response to sexual activity, if your brain was somehow capable of producing a massive flood of dopamine comparable to the levels which the ingestion of something like MDPV can produce, you would likely find that it would result in similar neurotoxic damage. That is to say, I believe the main reason that the rise in dopamine levels in response to something like sexual activity do not cause neurotoxicity, is not due to the "natural" mechanism which causes this rise in dopamine, but simply because the rise in dopamine is so small that it does not cause the neurotoxicity which is seen when something like MDPV causes a far more drastic rise in dopamine.

Ill admit that Im just speculating here, but it seems pretty likely to me.-DG
 
Yes but the worst offender for extrracellular dopamine are the ones that make the reuptake mechanism run in reverse ie the one that cause efflux (amphetamine, methamphetamine, MDMA etc). They cause much higher concentrations of dopamine with all it's attendant worries (free radicle formation etc).

Don't get me wrong - long term heavy use of MDPV can't do you any good, but any damage caused is apparently mild (except for the psychological, but that's the realm of philosophers, isn't it! ;) ). What impurities/cuts/other stuff do is anybody's guess (shudders at the thought of dodgy speed dealers). There's also the possibility that it would cause some ideosyncratic reaction, but from the reports of users here, we've yet to encounter them (unless the exacerbation of my psoriasis is due to peevee - wouldn't that be a bugger?)
 
MDPV stole my meth addiction as some others have said. been a year of just doing PV now and i never even think about meth. ha but when i foolishly let myself run out for more than a week without PV i will become extremely depressed and lethargic. my biggest problem with it is the delusional behavior and actions that can occur on it. even a couple of horribly malfunctioned ego death experiments (using my dangerous "Lucid Sleep-Wake" method)* pale in comparison to the insanity ive experienced more than a dozen times at the end of a long MDPV binge. if i dont force myself to take 250-350mg diphenhydramine (otc sleep aid) after 3 days of heavy PV usage i risk going into a semi-trance like behavior where i am completely irrational with deciosion making of all degrees. and if i dont snap out by day 7 of no sleep, "the darkness" will overtake and even the most debaucherous & immoral person would be shouked at what they do if it ever happens to them. shit like discovering you really did have an igloo cooler dissolving a neighbors recently roadkilled snouser in muriatic acid on your back porch that u had dug up in the middle of the night dressed as a ninja! seriously! and thats a tame one. something about dopamine reuptake inhibiton with sleep deprivation without any serotogenic activity to balance the norepiniprine is why im guessing MDPV has such a large number of reported fucked up behavior during heavy binges . meth never had me doing the shit i sometimes do on MDPV after only 4 days no sleep and i once was awake for 7 days on meth. on MDPV ive had dangerously violent & destructive behavior with delusions of grandeur that are on the level of paranoid shizophrenia and multiple personality disorder.

to live fast yet die slow you have to find the balance in all things (but especially habitual drug use) or else youll die by the sword.

*a method i may reveal to bluelighters one day that involves one of shulgin's magical half-dozen, a drug known as pervitin during the 1940's, and a type of self-hypnoisis/meditiation similar to tibetan monk short term tupla creation techniques.
 
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I realise it doesnt release serotonin...yet neither does cocaine and Id say cocaine is more dangerous than mdma.
Im concerned about the damage to other parts..ie the dopamine neurons....
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Cocaine's actually relatively benign in this respect (but few others).
 
MASTER SATAN said:
MDPV stole my meth addiction as some others have said. been a year of just doing PV now and i never even think about meth. ha but when i foolishly let myself run out for more than a week without PV i will become extremely depressed and lethargic. my biggest problem with it is the delusional behavior and actions that can occur on it. even a couple of horribly malfunctioned ego death experiments (using my dangerous "Lucid Sleep-Wake" method)* pale in comparison to the insanity ive experienced more than a dozen times at the end of a long MDPV binge. if i dont force myself to take 250-350mg diphenhydramine (otc sleep aid) after 3 days of heavy PV usage i risk going into a semi-trance like behavior where i am completely irrational with deciosion making of all degrees. and if i dont snap out by day 7 of no sleep, "the darkness" will overtake and even the most debaucherous & immoral person would be shouked at what they do if it ever happens to them. shit like discovering you really did have an igloo cooler dissolving a neighbors recently roadkilled snouser in muriatic acid on your back porch that u had dug up in the middle of the night dressed as a ninja! seriously! and thats a tame one. something about dopamine reuptake inhibiton with sleep deprivation without any serotogenic activity to balance the norepiniprine is why im guessing MDPV has such a large number of reported fucked up behavior during heavy binges . meth never had me doing the shit i sometimes do on MDPV after only 4 days no sleep and i once was awake for 7 days on meth. on MDPV ive had dangerously violent & destructive behavior with delusions of grandeur that are on the level of paranoid shizophrenia and multiple personality disorder.

to live fast yet die slow you have to find the balance in all things (but especially habitual drug use) or else youll die by the sword.

*a method i may reveal to bluelighters one day that involves one of shulgin's magical half-dozen, a drug known as pervitin during the 1940's, and a type of self-hypnoisis/meditiation similar to tibetan monk short term tupla creation techniques.
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The whole situation with your neighbor's dog is shocking and scary. For the record, am I correct that the dog was dead already (meaning, you didn't actually kill the dog, right).

Regardless, why do you continue to embark on these binges if you know that you end up so out of control that you will do these horrendous things which you would be incapable of (presumably) in your "normal" state of mind?

If you truly are that out of contro when in this statel, it seems like only a matter of time until you do something that could impact the rest of your life in a very negative way. Seriously, you would be wise to cut back on the length of those binges since you already seem aware of your limits. Good luck-DG
 
On the scale of DARI action, where does MDPV fall? Let's say crack/cocaine on the high end and Bupropion, Methylphenidate, etc... on the low end.
 
Allow me to interupt here. I have been using mdpv since finding a good reliable source around june/july 2009. Since then i have ordered a gram at a time about 6-7 times. The first 2-3 times ending in bingeing, then the familiar toilet disposal, then recovering and wanting more. I found it to be pretty safe as i always recovered 100% after stopping the binge. the 4th time i went apeshit and just kept going, staying awake for 5 times 24 hours and ended up crossing the line into genuine psychosis, that lasted for some time (2-3 weeks) after i stopped. It was not as bad as it was interesting, and i ended up with a much needed prescription for lorazepam and oxazepam. (anxiolytic and sleeper) I also got prescribed to 2 mg of haloperidol every morning to prevent another psychosis might i be schizophrenic or brain damaged. One of those times i consumed a full gram, bumping carlessly to take about 100mg at least in one snort, thinking it had to be enough to kill me, it did not even hurt me in any way and strangely felt just like 5-10 mg would have strangely. I have been checked at the most advanced hospital of our country (Erasmus MC, Rotterdam, Netherlands.) and had me completely checked on, as they told me, EVERYTHING they could check. I had my organs checked for damage, kidneys in particular as i was several times very dehydrated and i told them other people had pain there. My heart was checked daily, on the stuff and daily while recovering from it. Even my brain has been checked for bloodflow and brain activity. They have tested me since my first hospitalisation and are still doing so when they think it's neccesary. To make it short: I was found to be extremely healthy, heart was perfect, lung function perfect, kidneys were not damaged, liver function was above average. There was some damage in my dopamine system but that happens with any stimulant abuse. The only alarming thing is the vasoconstriction at higher dosages. Now i am doing it daily to keep me from falling into the depression i am sick of and only use it as a tool. I hope the suspicions about it's negative effects are confirmed by this. Also i do not need a wagging finger or another psychiatrist, i know the risks i took and could suffer from, i just want to share my experiences. Would like to know experiences with stimulant use while on antipsychotics. With me it took away all of the anxiety mdpv brings, enjoying it more.

tl;dr
Bragging about mdpv probably being pretty fucking safe. Haloperidol interactions. Also sorry for my broken sentences but i am pretty tweaked out right now.
 
naginnudej said:
On the scale of DARI action, where does MDPV fall? Let's say crack/cocaine on the high end and Bupropion, Methylphenidate, etc... on the low end.
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Are you talking about affinity? Correct me if I'm wrong, but actually cocaine has roughly the same DAT affinity as methylphenidate. I must be missing the distinction you're making.

rotterdam-era: Uh I'm not trying to be an ass but... never underestimate the power of paragraph breaks ;)
 
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Is combining MDPV and alcohol bad? I'm considering trying it out as a party drug tonight or tomorrow and was wondering if involving alcohol could be dangerous. I would try to limit the alcohol to a reasonable amount. What do u think?
 
Chronozon333: I'm finding it seriously pleasurable right now (having no alcohol tolerance to speak of) in combination with red wine. But I have no idea about specific harms. Of course the general story about uppers & downers applies:

1. They mask each other's side effects, but this is mostly illusionary (correct me if I'm wrong)
2. Uppers will make you drink more because you think you're sober
3. Alcohol will make you snort more due to general disinhibition and pleasure-seeking, and due to decreased anxiety


A question of my own: IMHO less is more with alcohol, but with PV keeping you awake through the night, it adds up. Is this just as harmful as getting smashed by drinking the same amount quickly?
 
rnd.id. said:
Chronozon333: I'm finding it seriously pleasurable right now (having no alcohol tolerance to speak of) in combination with red wine. But I have no idea about specific harms. Of course the general story about uppers & downers applies:

1. They mask each other's side effects, but this is mostly illusionary (correct me if I'm wrong)
2. Uppers will make you drink more because you think you're sober
3. Alcohol will make you snort more due to general disinhibition and pleasure-seeking, and due to decreased anxiety


A question of my own: IMHO less is more with alcohol, but with PV keeping you awake through the night, it adds up. Is this just as harmful as getting smashed by drinking the same amount quickly?
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I got it. I've done uppers drinking and been fine many a time. It feels good to me to with the exception of a few times where I drank waaaaay too much but I don't let my self do that anymore. I have mine already weighed out and gel capped so I don't have to worry about snorting. If ppl do it and are ok that makes me feel better. I just don't wanna be the one to discover it is really dangerous or something.
 
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