Bupe Using Suboxone like Narcan?

[Oxymorphone]

I'm pretty sure a few exchanges in New York and New Jersey distribute it, or at least, they did distribute it at some point in time.

They definitely do in NY, one or two days a week exchanges will have a course and at the end of the training the doctor gives you some and a prescription for more.

 

[MC6416]

Wow... The horrors of addiction. I wish there was just one pill your could give that would change the entire mind and fix everything. I pray to god i never

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I can't believe that the UK and US still haven't started distributing Narcan at needle exchanges.

I just don't see a reason why NOT to do it. As long as junkies where told that it should be used in CONJUNCTION with 999/911 then whats the problem.

I used to get it at an exchange in a different country, they didn't advertise it at all (even though it was free), and you had to ask for it especially so I don't even know if they were allowed to be distributing it. The scene was a hell of a lot safer though - there was always a vial on hand in case things went tits-up.

They wouldn't want people using it to get high. Some people think it may do very well that if you're not ODing on opiates. Not people like us, but you know, the morons that make up the drug laws.

My needle exchange said they were going to give it out - then they never did. But they will refer you to a doctor who can prescribe it to you.

I just don't understand why they don't hand out micron filters. It's beyond me.

 

[Tommyboy]

Wow... The horrors of addiction. I wish there was just one pill your could give that would change the entire mind and fix everything. I pray to god i never

There is interesting information on the drug Ibogaine which in combination with therapy is supposed to do just that. Google it, and there are also video's on youtube with patients talking about its effects. Ibogaine treatment is not legal in the U.S, but is done in Mexico and also in Canada (I think). The patient takes the drug in the presence of a doctor, the drug causes hallucinations and then causes the patient to reflect on themselves, and also detoxes the patient. There is a decent amount of info on this if you search, so thats all im gonna write about it.

 

[sixpartseven]

I just don't understand why they don't hand out micron filters. It's beyond me.

Because average, run-of-the-mill junkies won't use them. It's too much extra work when a cotton, to them, works just as well.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Because average, run-of-the-mill junkies won't use them. It's too much extra work when a cotton, to them, works just as well.

Exchanges need to stock these, they look perfect and I totally agree with you. Luer lock microns don't make any sense for most of the non run of the mill educated junkies who read bluelight and are only worthwhile for the couple people prepping long term IV solutions.

http://www.exchangesupplies.org/needle_exchange_supplies/sterifilt/sterifilt_intro.html

They are available in the UK, around 187 euros for 1000 which is the minimum order. It would be great if people wanted to pool in and split packs of 50 or 100. They are micron filters, not .2 but they filter particles over 4 microns which is pretty damn good for most purposes considering a red blood cell is 8 microns.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

id be willing to pitch in on that for 50- 100 of em for future use.

How much USD is 187 euros?

 

[socio]

Word to six/seven... It worked for me and friends of mine, though I don't believe anyone reached comatose/nonreponsiveness before administration. Once, after blowing through the last couple hundred mgs of mdone (IV, cooked down from the watery solution) and several bags of dope, I had the distinct impression that if I lay down to close my eyes I wouldn't ever open them again. Without think it through very well, I just sorta injected 2 mg of suboxone. The experience was exactly like being Naltrexoned in a hospital ER for OD. A friend of mine did the same, realized he'd swalled too many pills, including 100+ methadone without sufficient tolerance, and he SL'ed something like 3-4 mgs of suboxone. He was pretty messed up for a day from precipitated w/d, but it worked in those situations. Then again, maybe we both woulda been fine without the Suboxone. I know a married couple who regularly lose control of their opiate use and keep about 16mg on hand to administer to passed out subject SL if necessary. If I were irresponsible, I might encourage one of them to OD, so I could bring them back and be the savior, then report back here. Kinda like those nurses who killl patients to swoop in and save their lives on Law & Order type shows. Anyway, good harm reduction would be to give users a bit of naltrexone, on small scale first to make sure they didn't take risky doses believing they could just cancel them out later, and that they didn't do crappy things like spike people's drinks with it just to fuck with them, etc.

 

[Tommyboy]

^^^^ Yes there have been a number of times when I try to stay awake as long as possible, fearing that if I fall asleep I will not wake up. I think in that case, taking a suboxone sublingual would benefit, and would save me a trip to the ER. I usually end up walking around and staying up for way too long. Funny what you wrote about encouraging the o.d. That also like the fireman that start fires so they could be the first to respond and save the day. I forgot what they call it though, when somebody does something like that.

 

[Oxymorphone]

If I'm ever doing opiates with people I'll prep a 8mg shot of suboxone beforehand along with a couple 8mg tabs crushed to powder I could dump under someone's tongue (maybe I'll figure out a way to store it in some type of straw for super easy administration) and keep it handy just in case if I don't have any naloxone. It sounds like it works just as I would expect and seems like a good safety measure that is more readily available to some people.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

in order for it to work you would need to make sure you dose high enough so that its buprenorphine hitting your receptors.. not dosing low and having norbuprenorphine hit your receptors cuz thats not an antagonist its an agonist.

But 8mg is more than enough to ensure its buprenorphine.. you need to dose in very low amounts to leave enough room on your receptors for the norbupe to be a factor.

BUT IM NOT SAYING THAT SUBOXONE IS 100% SAFE TO USE IN AN OD.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Yeah for someone with a tolerance I would definitely IV/IM 8-12mg which is equivalent to 24-32mg sublingual which sure as hell will put them into precipiated withdrawal. I would want to put at least 16mg of powder under someone's tongue if they have tolerance. if they are going into precipiated WD it is going to suck for them but probably save their life at any dose so best be safer and give them enough. On second thought I probably won't be able to hit a vein on someone else under that kind of pressure without tying them off so I'll stick to sublingual.

I'll keep 24mg powder on hand stored in a plastic straw with one end capped/sealed and the other end folded back and held with a rubber band or something so I can quickly stick the straw under someones tongue and dump it in. Maybe I'll even rig a plunger from a syringe to shoot the powder in or just modify a syringe to inject powder out of a blunt end.

 

[sixpartseven]

It's not a bad idea to keep it on hand, but don't rely on it. As I've said, if someone OD's, call EMS or take them to the hospital. Only use Suboxone if it's absolutely necessary and a last ditch effort to save them.

 

[socio]

Oh, re: my previous post, I should add that I tried to "save" myself with suboxone one other time and it did NOT work. I tried to take just enough suboxone sublingually to avoid death, but not enough to precip withdr. So I stuck two 2mg tabs under tongue and left them there for 30 seconds. Maybe I got 1/4 or 1/2 a mg? Figured that would be enough. But sure enough, I passed out, quit breathing, woke in ICU full of naltrexone.

For me, when it did work, IV 1.6- 2mg was definitely sufficient (about the maximum I can fit in a 1cc syringe). Oxymo -- since you IV it anyway, and must have some experience, how do you plan to fit 8-12 mg in a syringe? Sounds impossible, but I'd like to b wrong...

 

[Fatkid paramedic]

The thing that would worry me.. AFTER you have shot them up with a dose of suboxone to get the nalxone in them.. HOW long untill the nalxone wears off and here comes the opiate/heroine back to the Receptor sight?

I would do it if there was a medic on there way.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^^^^ Yes there have been a number of times when I try to stay awake as long as possible, fearing that if I fall asleep I will not wake up. I think in that case, taking a suboxone sublingual would benefit, and would save me a trip to the ER. I usually end up walking around and staying up for way too long. Funny what you wrote about encouraging the o.d. That also like the fireman that start fires so they could be the first to respond and save the day. I forgot what they call it though, when somebody does something like that.

munchausen syndrome by proxy. I jsut happen to remember the term off the top of my head.

in order for it to work you would need to make sure you dose high enough so that its buprenorphine hitting your receptors.. not dosing low and having norbuprenorphine hit your receptors cuz thats not an antagonist its an agonist.

But 8mg is more than enough to ensure its buprenorphine.. you need to dose in very low amounts to leave enough room on your receptors for the norbupe to be a factor.

BUT IM NOT SAYING THAT SUBOXONE IS 100% SAFE TO USE IN AN OD.

buprenorphine is what your body is exposed to first, no matter what dose you take the buprenorphine will throw off the agonist. If you took enough opiate, then yes you would need more buprenorphine to throw off the opiate.

This is why it's best to treat an opiate overdose with IV/IM naloxone.

For me, when it did work, IV 1.6- 2mg was definitely sufficient (about the maximum I can fit in a 1cc syringe). Oxymo -- since you IV it anyway, and must have some experience, how do you plan to fit 8-12 mg in a syringe? Sounds impossible, but I'd like to b wrong...

It's possible to fit 8-12mg in a 1CC syringe. It just isn't preferable to create such a concentrated solution IMO.

The thing that would worry me.. AFTER you have shot them up with a dose of suboxone to get the nalxone in them.. HOW long untill the nalxone wears off and here comes the opiate/heroine back to the Receptor sight?

I would do it if there was a medic on there way.

buprenorphine would last just as long as the other opiate, typically.

 

[lazylazyjoe]

I've posted before, but I will put it down again. Suboxone will definately bring someone out of an overdose.
However, just doing that isn't all that needs to be done. First, you must ensure they're breathing. If they're not, then you must perform rescue breathing. You might even have to perform chest compressions if they don't resume breathing and their heart has stopped. I was fortunate in that the only time there was an OD so bad in my house requring CPR and Narcan, that I had the assistance of another person. While I prepared the shot, my wife performed rescue breathing. It's much more difficult to act in a situation like this than you can imagine. You really have to act fast. I administered the dose, about 1/3 of a pill, subcutainious as I was way to nervous to find a vein.

The ironic thing is that it's the bup that brings the victim out, but I only administered the suboxone because it said naloxone on the script. I would neve have thoght to give it to her if it didn't have it in it. I had never heard or thought of using suboxone for this method until the very moment it became necessary. I told the people at the exchange about this, and they told me that they use my case as an example to tell people that it can be used if narcan is not available.

Either way, it's imperitive that if you use dope that you and your friends be trained on what to do and how to act. And never do dope alone. Having narcan or suboxone on hand is also a must. But, if all this is too much for you and you call 911, don't say anything about drugs. Just say that your friend isn't breathing. Say you found them passed out and blue and you have no idea about anything. This will reduce the chance of a police car coming andan ambulance will have narcan on hand regardless. Just make sure you tell the EMT what they took, and what you gave them once they arrive. They just want to help and probably wont rat you out.
Also, don't forget that administering a controlled drug to someone could have legal implications as well. I'm not an expert in this area, but it could come up.

Unfortunately, even though I did manage to save my friend, she eventually killed herself. I sometimes wish I hadn't woken up and noticed her not breathing. She could have died in the arms of two people who loved her, instead of having to die all alone, to be eventually found by her grandmother of all people. I don't think my wife and I could have taken waking in bed up next to our dead friend though. I recently posted her pic in the Shrine forum. I loved her and even still think about her every day even after 2 years. After her funeral, I had another friend kill herself 2 weeks later, and another 5 months later. That was a tuff year. Sorry for the length and off-topic.

 

[ranunky]

The thing that would worry me.. AFTER you have shot them up with a dose of suboxone to get the nalxone in them.. HOW long untill the nalxone wears off and here comes the opiate/heroine back to the Receptor sight?

I would do it if there was a medic on there way.

it's not to get naloxone in them, it's the bupe itself that actslike narcan. bupe lasts a good while, longer than heroin anyway

 

[ciaxm]

i dont think there's enough of narcan in bupes to make for any drastic reactions.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

i dont think there's enough of narcan in bupes to make for any drastic reactions.

it would be the bupe knocking the drug off the receptors, not the naloxone.