Jakeperson
Bluelighter
"It's not a war on drugs, its a war on personal freedom, keep that in mind at all times." - Bill Hicks
That plus.
What war?
Is all I have to say.
That plus.
What war?
Is all I have to say.
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AADD Moderators: Tronica
Is the government winning it's war on drugs?
- Thread starter mepat1111
- Start date
acidicweed_69
Bluelighter
if they want to think they are winnning the war the war, then let them because its not like WE are (or ever were) having a war, are we?
tyrael
Bluelighter
team gong
Bluelighter
Le sigh
The trouble with the way things are heading is that the more they clamp down on the use of recreational's the more people are dying from the use of absolute utter crap of which we dont even know is going into it...
If you legalise the manufacture, distrubution and sale of drugs, have it taxed so that it pays for education, rehab etc, then deaths and possibly od's etc will actually decrease.
Instead they clamp and clamp and cause people to eat fkn rat poison.
No drug supplier cares if people die, they still make money.
A regulated industry with a register for people buying could work and would be a lot safer.
I'd pay a heap of cash for pure MDMA, or heck, put research into BETTER, SAFER drugs with the money made... ANd I'll buy whatever you come up with instead, stamped with Gov Regulated & Trusted, bought at the local chemist and signed for, whatever, bring it.
Clamp too much and you'll get more deaths. Not just from the substance itself, but from violence induced by random shit in the pills/caps.
More violence related injuries occur due to alcohol than MDMA. Heck, someone on MDMA is more likely going to hump your leg and hug you to death than perform an act of violence.
WHen will governments realise this? Do they think people will just fkn eat 500 of these a day and never want to work? That's where education comes in.
Really missing good pills. I've turned to coke because I cant get good pills in Sydney now, and even that is shite and expensive. The first government to make MDMA legal and begin manufacture will have such a monetary windfall that other governments may go, "oh wtf didnt we think of that".
Shut down the illegal supply, bring in government regulated supply, show yourselves the money.
My 2c.
The trouble with the way things are heading is that the more they clamp down on the use of recreational's the more people are dying from the use of absolute utter crap of which we dont even know is going into it...
If you legalise the manufacture, distrubution and sale of drugs, have it taxed so that it pays for education, rehab etc, then deaths and possibly od's etc will actually decrease.
Instead they clamp and clamp and cause people to eat fkn rat poison.
No drug supplier cares if people die, they still make money.
A regulated industry with a register for people buying could work and would be a lot safer.
I'd pay a heap of cash for pure MDMA, or heck, put research into BETTER, SAFER drugs with the money made... ANd I'll buy whatever you come up with instead, stamped with Gov Regulated & Trusted, bought at the local chemist and signed for, whatever, bring it.
Clamp too much and you'll get more deaths. Not just from the substance itself, but from violence induced by random shit in the pills/caps.
More violence related injuries occur due to alcohol than MDMA. Heck, someone on MDMA is more likely going to hump your leg and hug you to death than perform an act of violence.
WHen will governments realise this? Do they think people will just fkn eat 500 of these a day and never want to work? That's where education comes in.
Really missing good pills. I've turned to coke because I cant get good pills in Sydney now, and even that is shite and expensive. The first government to make MDMA legal and begin manufacture will have such a monetary windfall that other governments may go, "oh wtf didnt we think of that".
Shut down the illegal supply, bring in government regulated supply, show yourselves the money.
My 2c.
team gong
Bluelighter
I miss the days where you could walk into a club in the city, and everyone was loved up and happy and all smiling etc, but now, you go into the same club and most people are alcohol fuelled and get violent occasionally.
Bring back the happiness, bring back the love. Vote to regulate!
Bring back the happiness, bring back the love. Vote to regulate!
Stoner Witch
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
- Messages
- 205
Not at all.
suspecteg
Bluelighter
well this was a very compelling thread. i wonder what the general response would be if someone with media influence were to post this on the front page of say the ninemsn newsfeed page...
I was actually thinking that as I wrote it - it almost stopped me from creating the thread actually. The last thing I want is the Govt to get more justification for it's silly WoD.
suspecteg
Bluelighter
mm... i was thinking that the peoples reaction would lean more to the other side of things - sympathising with those who choose to occasionally indulge in illicit drugs. The range of inisghtful responses within this discussion are written by every-day working people (i am assuming like me and you) who have normal lives (i am a student, just completed year 12). And in my oppinion their ability to draw on logical argument to write such compelling responses demonstrates the fact that the humane right of being able to indulge in ones freedom has not flawed these people or made them inferior to those who condone drug use in any way...
tyrael
Bluelighter
Good response! The 'druggie image' the media like to push is basically just tarnishing everyone whose does ('occasionally', or not so lol) indulge in drug use with the, wrong, brush. Truth is, a lot of drug users aren't the 'sit in a basement of their parents house smoking weed all day with no life, job, or social skills' or the classic 'meth user who has bad teeth, porns all their belongings, picks at their skin and robs service stations'. Many users are fine up standing people of the community who hold stable jobs, some in very high positions. With their use not negatively affect their life. Bet you don't hear about those in the media!!
Having said that, not that those sterotypes don't exist, they're just NOT ALL illicit recreational drug users
Having said that, not that those sterotypes don't exist, they're just NOT ALL illicit recreational drug users
So true... if only the "upstanding" people in society can't all stand up and confess to their drug use to show that it can be done while still leading a perfectly "normal" life, eg. hold a good job, study, raise a family, etc. However sadly it is these people that cannot really come clean about such things as usually they have the most to lose :-(
Therefore all anyone sees in the media is either the stereotypical druggie, or high profile people that have lost their way or whatever, and as soon as they are found out they have to be seen to be entirely remorseful about their actions and how they nearly ruined their lives etc.
On a personal level, I endulge in substances at least a few times a month, and am quite proud of the fact that I have completed one uni course, and now studying a Masters course which I am holding an A grade average. Yeah... would love to tell people what I get up to and how no one would probably even realise just to distinguish some of those stereotypes. But yeah... alas I don't think that can really happen simply because of the backlash it would cause, from family, certain friends, and just society in general.
Therefore all anyone sees in the media is either the stereotypical druggie, or high profile people that have lost their way or whatever, and as soon as they are found out they have to be seen to be entirely remorseful about their actions and how they nearly ruined their lives etc.
On a personal level, I endulge in substances at least a few times a month, and am quite proud of the fact that I have completed one uni course, and now studying a Masters course which I am holding an A grade average. Yeah... would love to tell people what I get up to and how no one would probably even realise just to distinguish some of those stereotypes. But yeah... alas I don't think that can really happen simply because of the backlash it would cause, from family, certain friends, and just society in general.
madmick19
Bluelight Crew
its funny all the hype abpout the media pushing this message, i have partied with a few media crew in my time and they are as pro choice as most people i know. Unfortunately the editors are also promoting a line based on what they think the public want to hear.
also in addition to this regular recreational drug users are still the minority in the evidence collected by the government- should this change then im sure so would the legislation around this with enough publicity.
also in addition to this regular recreational drug users are still the minority in the evidence collected by the government- should this change then im sure so would the legislation around this with enough publicity.
chugs
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2004
- Messages
- 2,026
I was amazed the other day to discover that there are people out there that don't use psychedelics, narcotics or any other legal or illicit substances.
Definitely made me feel like a minority.
As I've said in other posts though there must be a uprising, a revolution if you will no different to any other social justices movement. The problem though compared to say racism or homophobia is that the use of drugs is an intrinsically self-fish behaviour, and is not rooted in a biological need that say sex is based on. It can be viewed as an immature behaviour.
For all the surface complaints of drug use I often feel an under-current of repulsion that is don't different to the social taboo that is masturbation .
Yes its a crude example but sexual satisfaction is no different (at least in my book) to pushing that plunger into a vein, coming up on a tab or pill, or what ever high/rush that pushes your buttons.
Its self masturbation of the artificial chemical variety. Hell if you could get a drug that released the same endorphins an other hormones and chemicals you get after fucking then we'd all be kicking them back with our beers.
However its all a matter of attitudes and context. Look at the gay and lesbian movement. At the heart of it is a human need to copulate, despite such unions (without artificial means) being intrinsically pointless in a reproduction context. The point being is that the gay and lesbian movement is really just about getting the right to fuck and love who the hell you want.
Socially millions of people went from being repulsed to accepting such behaviour.
Thus the drug movement stands on a precipice. Go the harm minimisation, support the introduction and legislation of drugs on a sterile medical basis of at least its the path of least harm, "but hey we still think drugs are wrong" route, or embrace a movement that uses its weakness as a strength and goes on the offensive.
Personally i find the legislation drug movement to be a bunch of fucking pansy.
Look at the gay movement, did they when they walked the first mardi gras say, hey lets try and get homosexuality (as a criminal act) repealed on the basis of harm minimisation? Nup those humans walked straight into a line of baton wielding psychopaths. Fought for their right to fuck and love whoever they want. Even if that meant higher risk factors for them. Now they glorify themselves in their hard won right.
That's why the war on drugs will forever be locked in this ugly stalemate, because no one is prepared to get up and fight, risk losing it all. I'm not just talking about jail I'm talking about your peers and colleagues locking out of the "straight" world for the stance your taking publicly? Being denied and ostracised if people knew for a fact that you took drugs.\
Yes there are large spheres of our society that find such behaviour acceptable but only behind close doors and definitely they would never (as is the case right now) fall publicly behind you.
Then again the pro legislation movement is hardly known for its wealth (and in turn power). Get some of that going and things might change.
Interesting thoughts here. I agree with most of what is being said. I have recently completed 2 degrees and have a job in the only industry which tolerates/turns a blind eye to drug use (finance) providing it doesn't interfere with your work.
As chugs said, its money which is needed, and a couple people with balls to stand up and say 'look at us, we did/do it, and it hasn't done us any problems if used safely'. i think that funding studies is a way in which ppl that want to remain nameless can also help out. the more we know about drugs and their effects, the more govs may be willing to change eventually.
i guess the other thing is that those who have the money and power positions and do use drugs, dont really give a fuck as they never get busted anyway, the cops seem to convienently keep away from certain places....
As chugs said, its money which is needed, and a couple people with balls to stand up and say 'look at us, we did/do it, and it hasn't done us any problems if used safely'. i think that funding studies is a way in which ppl that want to remain nameless can also help out. the more we know about drugs and their effects, the more govs may be willing to change eventually.
i guess the other thing is that those who have the money and power positions and do use drugs, dont really give a fuck as they never get busted anyway, the cops seem to convienently keep away from certain places....
tyrael
Bluelighter
Nice post Chugs. I agree with 99% of what you're saying except I'll like to add the reason for the 'harm minimisation' angle on legalization is because drug use is intrinsically dangerous when care isn't taken, homosexuality isn't. It's not being used as a gauss of sorts. Well, that's not how I see it. 
hyroller
Bluelighter
I think... as previously identified in similar topics to this effect... the whole rhetoric of 'war' is a completely defeatist mechanism for combating the real, problematic social issues that arise from drug abuse... and all this framework will do is continue to reinforce the adversarial role between the public & its various democratically elected bodies & law enforcement agencies.
Which, ultimately, will pretty much achieve fuck all in terms of addiction management, rehabilitating, and re-integrating drug afflicted individuals into the community :/
Which, ultimately, will pretty much achieve fuck all in terms of addiction management, rehabilitating, and re-integrating drug afflicted individuals into the community :/
travelling_man
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2009
- Messages
- 44
Being the alienated loner I am, personally I only really use drugs that I can enjoy with other people and break down those barriers - MDMA specifically
Humans are the most social animals; I believe drugs are there to foster and enhance our relationship with others. Not selfish!That and they're really fun!
But great post and I agree with everything else
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but since Reagan declared the war on drugs the prison population in the US has grown exponentially; from like 200,000 to over two million today. Aside from creating a 'prison bubble' with the prison industry being privatised and the state more than willing to help fill all those new beds with inmates ready to pump out baby furniture, that's a lot of judges, cops, lawyers, bondsmen, etc. gainfully employed!
I think the show 'The Wire' showed this whole thing pretty well and actually made it look like illegal drugs were the catalyst for pretty much everything that went on that city! Check it out if you haven't seen it hey
party safe %)
could well be in the public interest to keep prohibition going. what are all the people who make their money this way going to do if it becomes legal, get minimum wage jobs? anyone in legitimate business with enough capital and the contacts to get in on a clean drug industry will lunge at the opportunity, so the current black market leaders would have almost zero chance of gaining entry into a legitimate market
legalisation could see a return to violent crime. maybe the government(s) have already weighed that up.....
people worry about things like an internet filter, that's almost an irrelevant injustice by comparison to the current economic structure which is almost entirely responsible for the existence of crime. if people want something to be outraged by, be outraged by that, we don't live in a just society with equal opportunity
two people in the same business,
one works their ass off all day, basically the life blood of the business, can't afford to take their family on a holiday, sees people on tv doing all sorts of things they'd love to do but know they will probably never be able to afford, so they get a credit card and take out a loan they can't pay back (oops now we've got an economic crisis)
the other checks in on things at work occasionally but spends most of their time going between mansion and yacht, flys around the world a few times a year in a private aircraft
that ain't a fair system
added to which corporate growth is absolutely ridiculous. you don't "need" to spend money to make money, but it certainly helps - just a bit
an already multi-billion dollar corporation shouldn't be allowed to get bigger. that basically guarantees that they get the monopoly on everything and no one else has an option but to work for them and get the meager wage they throw at you from their mansion and yacht
honestly the system people currently tolerate is so horribly flawed it's almost oppressive
legalisation could see a return to violent crime. maybe the government(s) have already weighed that up.....
people worry about things like an internet filter, that's almost an irrelevant injustice by comparison to the current economic structure which is almost entirely responsible for the existence of crime. if people want something to be outraged by, be outraged by that, we don't live in a just society with equal opportunity
two people in the same business,
one works their ass off all day, basically the life blood of the business, can't afford to take their family on a holiday, sees people on tv doing all sorts of things they'd love to do but know they will probably never be able to afford, so they get a credit card and take out a loan they can't pay back (oops now we've got an economic crisis)
the other checks in on things at work occasionally but spends most of their time going between mansion and yacht, flys around the world a few times a year in a private aircraft
that ain't a fair system
added to which corporate growth is absolutely ridiculous. you don't "need" to spend money to make money, but it certainly helps - just a bit
an already multi-billion dollar corporation shouldn't be allowed to get bigger. that basically guarantees that they get the monopoly on everything and no one else has an option but to work for them and get the meager wage they throw at you from their mansion and yacht
honestly the system people currently tolerate is so horribly flawed it's almost oppressive
Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
Australia's larrikan, "she'll be right" mentality means it does not deserve less restrictive drug laws. You only have to look as far as Bluelight itself to see the unashamed hedonism and disregard to their fellow man to highlight how few people would be able to handle an open market. Here we have people who have made the effort to reseach effects yet approximately 80% are more than happy to over indulge. The increase on the already strained health system means any economic gains from extra taxes would be lost.
Australians can't handle their alcohol, how have they proved that even a relatively benign drug like cannabis wouldn't be abuse? Australia's already poor work ethic would hardly benefit from an increase dose of dope culture. Forget about the" upstanding members" of society leading the fight. It aint going to happen. They already know how to enjoy themselves without being a burden of the rest of society. Why would they want to associated with the more public drug using face? Perhaps if Joe Public as a whole was able to show the rest of society that it is possible to to go out and have a drink and not smash up property or get into a fight then things might change.
Is the government winning? No, but that have levelled the playing field in the past year or so. Tighter restrictions have no doubt resulted in a decrease in MDMA quality. I don't think this is a sign of victory because it has just pushed the market towards more dangerous and less understood drugs. Personally I would prefer prices for pills doubled, somewhat similar to 2000 prices. This way it would not be so widespread particularly with kids and you wouldn't see idiots smashing 3-4 pills a night every weekend until the magic is lost.
Australians can't handle their alcohol, how have they proved that even a relatively benign drug like cannabis wouldn't be abuse? Australia's already poor work ethic would hardly benefit from an increase dose of dope culture. Forget about the" upstanding members" of society leading the fight. It aint going to happen. They already know how to enjoy themselves without being a burden of the rest of society. Why would they want to associated with the more public drug using face? Perhaps if Joe Public as a whole was able to show the rest of society that it is possible to to go out and have a drink and not smash up property or get into a fight then things might change.
Is the government winning? No, but that have levelled the playing field in the past year or so. Tighter restrictions have no doubt resulted in a decrease in MDMA quality. I don't think this is a sign of victory because it has just pushed the market towards more dangerous and less understood drugs. Personally I would prefer prices for pills doubled, somewhat similar to 2000 prices. This way it would not be so widespread particularly with kids and you wouldn't see idiots smashing 3-4 pills a night every weekend until the magic is lost.
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Well said Busty. Some good stuff in this thread.