Is the government winning it's war on drugs?

[largeamount]

for them to be winning their would have to be a goal which there is not it is not winnable if there is no definition of success

 

[Sentience]

The government has not been successful at reducing drug use in general. They have however been successful at ruining peoples lives and making money off punishing victims. They are winning in the sense that nobody is stopping them, but they have not been successful at stopping drug use.

Prisons will never be an effective deterrent. It will only make people hate the government.

 

[quater pounder]

the government crack down on 1 drug and the people buy something different or the makers make something different did the alco pop tax change teen drinking ?
supply is only viable with demand

 

[smiggle]

One word. NO!

Too many sources and more keep popping up and their is too much coruption...!

 

[Sustanon]

There prob effecting it in a negative way but they will never put an end to it. Theres just way too many users, alot more users than the government and cops combined. Plus theres just way too much money involved. They might put a dent in the trade and stop one supplier but there will be 5 more that will come in to place instead of it.

 

[fuzzyslippers]

I think that the quality is decreasing, at least in my area. I'm pretty new to the scene, only been using drugs for about a year now, but I haven't seen any quality googs for months. So I'm just moving on to other substances.

It's not even a war, wars can be won. You can never eradicate drugs, because people enjoy using them and there's a relatively small chance of getting caught if you choose to consume them.

 

[hoptis]

Some good posts in this thread.

Like any situation where two groups find themselves fighting a protracted and unwinnable war, it's society that loses as a whole.

Those who stand to gain the most are organised criminals; many of whom if they had the foresight to see the big picture would be counting their blessings to be born in such an era as ours. The other beneficiaries being anyone who is in the law and order business; from customs to prison guards, to criminal lawyers.

Of course, it's us as drug users who are the biggest losers in this war. From the curious innocent trying his first joint, to the hardened addict chasing his next fix... the criminalisation of something that is such a fundamental building block of human experience and recreation (intoxication) is a blight on all the societies we live in.

It is one of the biggest lies upon which modern civilisation is built, it pours trillions of dollars into a black market which will never cease to innovate and adapt to take full advantage of the situation and it will continue until the day the moralists and fundamentalists finally let go of their deeply held fear that allowing humans to get high will result in the end of our society.

 

[Sameria]

Some good posts in this thread.

Like any situation where two groups find themselves fighting a protracted and unwinnable war, it's society that loses as a whole.

Those who stand to gain the most are organised criminals; many of whom if they had the foresight to see the big picture would be counting their blessings to be born in such an era as ours. The other beneficiaries being anyone who is in the law and order business; from customs to prison guards, to criminal lawyers.

Of course, it's us as drug users who are the biggest losers in this war. From the curious innocent trying his first joint, to the hardened addict chasing his next fix... the criminalisation of something that is such a fundamental building block of human experience and recreation (intoxication) is a blight on all the societies we live in.

It is one of the biggest lies upon which modern civilisation is built, it pours trillions of dollars into a black market which will never cease to innovate and adapt to take full advantage of the situation and it will continue until the day the moralists and fundamentalists finally let go of their deeply held fear that allowing humans to get high will result in the end of our society.

Hoptis for PM

Fantastic writing mate, you hit the nail square on the head

 

[mepat1111]

Sure less people may be buying pills these days but that is more because the quality is shit due to these greedy people, not the laws that restrict them. Once they realize they cant sell utter shit to people which seems to be slowly happening as most people i talk to are not very interested in pills anymore the market may pick up and MDMA pills will slowly start to surface more & more.

I hope you're right

 

[mepat1111]

Hoptis, as always, spot on the money.

This thread has encouraged me a bit, I hope that I was a bit too hasty in my assumptions, but the discussion has been very interesting to say the least.

Please continue :D

 

[chugs]

The war on drugs, illicit ones is an ever changing evolving conflict between those who want to alter their consciousness and those, for whatever reason, who believe such behaviour threatens the very fabric of our society.

The substances is irrelevant, be it smack, coke, nutmeg, peyote, LSD, PCP, codeine, DXM, or just plain hyperventilation the war on "drugs'' is to abstract to be framed in that context.

So the cops restrict supply for MDMA. If anything it will only encourage the increase in cost. I know we're not meant to talk prices but historically don't we all remember the days when MDMA was $50.00 a pop? It could easily return through the dynamics of supply and demand.

It is no different to how the cost & purity of heroin has fluctuated over the last twenty years. Same with cocaine.

Lament now how MDMA is failing, as many did when the purity of heroin dropped in early 2000. But rejoice as new highs are just around the corner. New drugs and old favourites will reappear as the dynamics of change and supply and demand fly in high times for us all.

 

[phase_dancer]

Yes, a very well written post hoptis.

 

[psytaco]

I agree with what many say about the purity and availability of drugs been the result of external, global factors, rather than the result of local LE. It is interesting that even though the quality of MDxx pills in Australia has gone down, 'pills' are just as available and their use is just as rampant. Moreover, I haven't found it difficult to obtain MDxx pills, although they are rarely strong.
I think that the decrease in purity will result in many users switching drugs. This happened with heroin, when the purity fell, and many users switched to ice. I'd hazard a guess that users ecstacy users will switch to drugs such as methedrone, as it is similiar in effect and is often sold at a similiar price. Many will be sold it as 'MDMA caps', whilst many will also be conscious that they are taking a different drug.

 

[Juvenile]

as other have said LE is not the cause of the MDMA shortage, the availability of cheap RC's is.

Even if this was a result of LE you couldn't really consider causing people to switch from a substance that has had some research in to its effects to a completely unknown substance like mephedrone a "win"

I don't think that less people consume pills these days any way. Just more of them are bunks.

 

[Sykik]

This thread makes me sad. I tend to avoid such topics, and continue on living my life, knowing that my precious MDMA is harder to come buy.

This is a super multivariate problem. The phrase war is confusing. But to answer the thread, no no one is winning the war, the war just continues.

I agree with little_angle saying people will persue altered states of conciousness. I agree that smart criminals will abuse the current moral/political enviroment, I agree that users from inocent first trying to seasoned addicts will always fuel this fire like hoptis stated.

I personally can not see a way out, the UN is attempting to change the worlds few on alcohol, and is presenting evidence that perhapes mdma, cociane are safer then alcohol. I feel the UN is our saving grace for this one reason. People are not voted into the UN by the uneducated masses. It is this international forum that is somewhat free of pregidous and such revolutionary ideas about drugs can be aired without being critisized by the local news.

I feel the problem is with the political system. The political system is in a constant state of war, how can we expect a war ridden cabinet to possibly win another war. But I guess the politicians the "drugs" are a common enemy, and an enemy that ensures votes (well saying you are pro drugs will take votes away).

So no the government isn't winning the war on drugs, but they sure are encouraging it.

 

[noysy]

Yeh decent thread with some good posts, the pill scene was starting to die years ago. For me ive wiped that scene for now as I was starting to see prices going up for dog shit.. The only 2 consistant drugs that I like to take now are LSD and weed. Defntley a sad time but like any drug it will appear again. Untill than ill be sticking to the LSD..

 

[the_puppy]

Yeah ive always wanted to try LSD- I did mushies in Amsterdam which was a great experience, however LSD isnt the easiest to come across unfortunatly

 

[acidicweed_69]

not a chance in hell.. mainstream supply of MDMA is fucked in the ass right now, i will give you that much, however to say it is not around at all is very naive... end of 08- red stars weere fuckign good, green/white planes were hit n miss but some were quite nice.. mid 08 had yellow smileys and blue clovers which were yummu ).. this year there has been A LOT of duds around, however there has been- early on blue stars, white gender symbols (White sexes).. then a whole lot of shit for a few months, then the green squirrels made their way up from melbourne, and since we have had green cherries, red cherries, white moons and they were all quality pills.. maybe not as strong as the old days but two within half an hour of each other for any of those 3 put me in bliss for ages.. anyway point is mdma is still around, or at least some good MDxx...
cannabis yes of cause will always b around
lsd seems to be having a bit of a spike in popularity, relatively easy to find compared to a few years ago
rc's are gainign in popularity among some groups, however the general using population has little to know clue what any of them are, and most any rc type drug is immediately classified as "2cb"
prescription drugs are generally popular among most groups as you know what they are and some really are quite effective..

 

[acidicweed_69]

The war on drugs, illicit ones is an ever changing evolving conflict between those who want to alter their consciousness and those, for whatever reason, who believe such behaviour threatens the very fabric of our society......Lament now how MDMA is failing, as many did when the purity of heroin dropped in early 2000. But rejoice as new highs are just around the corner. New drugs and old favourites will reappear as the dynamics of change and supply and demand fly in high times for us all.

qft

 

[tyrael]

But I guess the politicians the "drugs" are a common enemy, and an enemy that ensures votes (well saying you are pro drugs will take votes away).

Exactly! Whether it's drug, terrorism (not that there shouldn't be a "war on terrorism" ) or other. "A common enemy units"