Carbogen Anyone?

[totallynotme]

Hey,
I've read about carbogen a few times and every time I come across it I wonder how difficult it'd be to make/get. I know it's not too hard to come across a cyclinder of oxygen or a cylinder of carbon dioxide, but I'd have no idea how to mix them properly or even how to admister it. Does anyone know anything about mixing them in the right proportions? I've seen it often mentioned that the two are mixed into one cyclinder, is that b/c it's more reliable than coming from two cylinders at different rates (which I'd assume might be easier). Anyways, basically what I'm wondering is how feasible is it for one to get ahold of carbogen and what would be the best way to administer it?

 

[N0 W4RN1NG]

Hey,
I've read about carbogen a few times and every time I come across it I wonder how difficult it'd be to make/get. I know it's not too hard to come across a cyclinder of oxygen or a cylinder of carbon dioxide, but I'd have no idea how to mix them properly or even how to admister it. Does anyone know anything about mixing them in the right proportions? I've seen it often mentioned that the two are mixed into one cyclinder, is that b/c it's more reliable than coming from two cylinders at different rates (which I'd assume might be easier). Anyways, basically what I'm wondering is how feasible is it for one to get ahold of carbogen and what would be the best way to administer it?

Well...I was under the impression it was a 50\50 mix...erowid has some really interesting stuff on it...afaik it's not pleasant at all...and the best way to administer is probably a gas mask

 

[MyExcuse]

From reading a little bit of the available information about it, I was under the impression that carbogen was 70% oxygen and 30% carbon dioxide.

It was later found that only the first initial inhalation needed to be the 70/30 ratio, further inhalations could be much lower in carbon dioxide and still provide similar effects.

It would be a very useful tool for pre-psychedelic meditation (inhale carbogen until you can become comfortable and take your psychedelic with that sense of control still lingering within the subconscious). more on carbogen

Carbogen is entirely legal and I'm sure if you had the money, you could contact a gas supply company and possibly request a custom pre-mixture of the two gases. If that wasn't possible, you would probably need to invest in some sort of gas mixing device which might cost a lot of money (much more than the gases themselves).

Your best bet would be to just contact gas supply companies and see if you can get a canister of it.

 

[totallynotme]

Your best bet would be to just contact gas supply companies and see if you can get a canister of it.

You think there's a chance they would do that? What happens if they ask questions? While I know it's perfectly legal, I have a feeling there'd be liability issues that would complicate things if they knew I was interested in inhaling it.

And also, I figure I would use a gas mask, but almost everywhere I read talks about having a sitter administer a set number of breaths, does this mean it's not possible/safe to self administer? I figured I could always hold the mask on myself and remove it if it became too much for me.

 

[ebola?]

What is your intent here? What are the desired effects?

ebola

 

[seep]

What is your intent here? What are the desired effects?

ebola

And why can't you just bypass the whole tank-acquisition thing and get your CO2 from alka-seltzer?

 

[MyExcuse]

You think there's a chance they would do that? What happens if they ask questions? While I know it's perfectly legal, I have a feeling there'd be liability issues that would complicate things if they knew I was interested in inhaling it.

And also, I figure I would use a gas mask, but almost everywhere I read talks about having a sitter administer a set number of breaths, does this mean it's not possible/safe to self administer? I figured I could always hold the mask on myself and remove it if it became too much for me.

I'm unsure if they would question it... I think it would be worthwhile to at least call, I can't think of any reason off the top of my head that would require such a ratio, but I'm sure if you looked around you could find alternative uses for a CO2/oxygen mixture that doesn't involve getting psychoactive effects.

I agree that using a gas mask without straps would probably be fairly safe. If you somehow lost consciousness or control, your hand would fall away from your face and if you were in an upright position the mask would go with it. Not to mention it's 70% oxygen so you shouldn't have to worry too much about serious negative effects (erowid mentions more than 50 breaths is where it gets dangerous).

Ebola2, Carbogen is known to produce interesting visions and psychedelic effects (albeit the mixture is also reportedly anxiety inducing). It was used as a valuable tool to pre-screen individuals prior to making the decision to ingest a psychedelic drug in ages past. If the person could overcome their initial anxieties induced by the carbogen (or outright enjoy the experience) without any negative psychological artifacts after the experience, it was deemed safe for them to ingest the psychedelic.


seep: (as far as I am aware) The mixture has to be done correctly, especially the initial deep breath. The effects of carbogen are not limited to the CO2 alone and might have something to do with the higher levels of oxygen as well. Granted you could always try and make balloons of oxygen and CO2, but I would imagine a pre-filled tank would just streamline the process.

 

[ebola?]

whoa!
interesting.
yeah, I'd imagine the drastic increase in c02 would trigger your body's "I'm suffocating!" response.
eek.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ When I read the thread title, my impulse was to respond:

Have you considered getting a friend stronger than yourself force your head in a bucket of water? It'll achieve the exact same effects.

MyExcuse: WTF are you talking about, re: pre-psychedelic meditation? This definitely crosses the Harm Reduction line and could potentially cause serious problems if anyone were to take your advice.

 

[MyExcuse]

Jam, I post links to information for a reason but it's understandable that you didn't get a chance to read through all that was there so I'll repost the vital parts for your and others convenience:

From Erowid

Alfred "Al" Hubbard, an important early advocate of psychedelics, appears to have been one of the first major proponents of carbogen within the psychedelic subculture. Hubbard traveled the world introducing famous and influential people to LSD and carbogen. As Jay Stevens describes in Storming Heaven, "One of Al's favorite break-the-ice devices was carbogen, a mixture of carbon dioxide and oxygen, which came in a small portable cylinder. Carbogen was what therapists referred to as a potent abreactor: ten or fifteen lungfuls and you tended to relive your childhood traumas. And judging on how well you handled them, Al would either offer to run an LSD session for you, or he wouldn't."15 Carbogen was, literally, Hubbard's (pre-) acid test.

"In our Foundation work with clients, we found that several treatments with [Meduna's] mixture was an excellent procedure to introduce novices to altered states of consciousness. Many discovered unconscious contents of their mind for the first time. The procedure also cleared away a good deal of repressed material, thus freeing the subject for a smoother, more profound psychedelic experience."17 Although he considered carbogen beneficial, he noted "[…] it was such a drastic and dramatic procedure that no one underwent it eagerly."17

Carbogen mixtures have been safely administered in medical and psychiatric procedures many thousands of times. While it appears to be relatively safe when administered in brief sessions, prolonged exposure to high levels of CO2 is sufficient to cause lethal respiratory or circulatory failure, as evidenced by the fact that CO2 is used to euthanize lab animals.28,29,30

The psychoactive effects produced by a mixture of the common gases carbon dioxide and oxygen remind us that consciousness is a fragile knitwork of body, mind, and environment. Alexander Shulgin, the renowned psychedelic chemist, describes teaching a class in San Francisco after which a young man expressed interest in synthesizing LSD. Dr. Shulgin replied that LSD chemistry is very complex and that he should start off with something simple, like carbon dioxide. When the young man replied incredulously, Dr. Shulgin led him downstairs to a lab where tubs of dry ice were stored and suggested the student put his head down next to one of the tubs, inhale deeply through his mouth, and see how he felt. After taking two deep breaths and experiencing the psychoactive effects, he said, "Point taken".

Most sessions mentioned use between 5-15 'breaths'. Not to mention more recent research which recommend a variable mixture of CO2 and oxygen

In contemporary psychiatric research, carbogen has been "extensively used"13 in this type of study at concentrations of 5–35% carbon dioxide. It is notable, however, that recent research does not use the strong doses administered by Meduna, instead delivering high concentrations for only brief periods. As Zvolensky, et al. describe in a 2001 review of this field of research: "5% CO2 typically is administered steadily for 15 min, 20% CO2 for 20–25 [sec], and 35% CO2 in a single vital capacity breath."8

Anyway, It's not advice, it's observation on something that has been safely used. Everything in moderation.

for more reading on fairly recent use of carbogen, Carbogen Redux is a good read.