Stimulants 4-fluoroamphetamine

[edarrin]

Unless you're a doctor (or someone with equivalent pharmacological/medical knowledge) and know why they are taking the SSRI's, that's not exactly the best advice.

Well I work in the field of psychiatry. I have never seen anyone get major benfits from SSRI's. The newer double reuptake inhibitors don't seem to be much better.

Seem to be OK for OCD and for mood flattening. That is better to some than how they were feeling prior to it so they do help some but are far from a major medical breakthrough. And now there is some doubt whether the structural changes in the brain are really beneficial in the long run.


Personally I use Remeron but more for the sleep promoting aspect. And there is no 'discontinuation syndrome' with it as I have stopped it several times cold turkey and no w/d at all.

Excuse ny spelling mistakes as My brain is frozen.

 

[MeDieViL]

I'm on this substance right now but not feeling much yet.

I've taken 100mg, didnt feel much an hour later so i've taken 100mg more, but still not feeling much (30 minutes later).

If it doesnt get better in 45 minutes, i'm gonna add in MDAI.

 

[ebola?]

I have no experience of it in lower doses (50-60 mg) other than as a good working addition to mingling or a night at the pubs - you are a bit more alert, but the full duration of the higher dosage isn't there really - but so couldn't say about how it would help focusing for study.

bummer 'bout duration. Advantages:
1. Smoother than d-amp on account of a higher DA:NE for release and minor 5ht efflux.
2. Yet not as neurotoxic (maybe not neurotoxic) as meth at DA and 5ht.

ebola

 

[konshuss]

Anyone have any input about the subjective differences between 4-FA / 4-FMP and MDPV? I know they're very different molecules, but I'm wondering about trying the 4-amp.

I have heard that the duration of the 4-FA is quite long...

 

[tm1210]

Interesting. Have any other interesting tidbits about this substance? Perhaps we should make a Big and Dandy and see if anyone can bring something to the table.

I'm seriously considering mixing this with MDAI for a nice MDMA substitute. Wonder how that would play out.

Curious about this aswell. Maybe add the MDAI after 2-3 hours in?

 

[madtrade]

i actually tryed it 4-fmp.

i snorted it (burn like hell but word it's human bearable)

im very sensitive to stim normally ( so i took a very small dose of vallium before the intake)

(around 1mg and then 1mg if i feel any anxiety coming for a total of 5 6mg at the total)

the trip was good very nice sensation good euphoria. no overdose of adrenaline

so for a total of 120mg snorted i found it pretty cool.

the comedown was really nothing particular even for me

i snorted after some subutex (0.15 0.3mg rails ) x 2 or 3 time (it's my prescription i'm a ex pain-killer adict)

one 5mg lorazepam and 3mg melatonin and no problem for sleeping in fact i woke up 6 hours and i came back to sleep again !!

so enjoyable at least !

BUT after 3 hours after the first hit the euphoria was gone if you hit another rails

you bring it back a bit but not that much (at least for me)

voila for my report.

i plan to take 120mg in oral in a few days for the weekend

with a bit of alchol before (light just for being mellow)

ps: excuse my english i'm french

 

[jblz]

Need advice asap - Whats the best ROA? Drinking it or bombing/parachuting?

We gonna take 175mg of 4-FA then go for methylone, whats the best suggested dose for the m1? (and the time after ingesting 4FA)

 

[mattyopaquet]

clean

had 30 mg first day
50 mg second
I felt clear and clean. Not sedating euphoria like dexamphetamine. Everything felt more real, the mind wasnt heavy, the music was good. It was a nice light euphoria mixed with a mood brighter, a powerful pick me up.
I liked it
I could reflect and feel empathy and enjoy the sunset. I could still feel sad to the appropiate moment but was overall happy. i still had all my emotions without flat dexamphetamine euphoria.
Wasnt delusion, just made eveything more interesting and detailed like it had purpose.

 

[info.trance]

SSRE's is where its at really , less side effects , less dependency issues

Well I work in the field of psychiatry. I have never seen anyone get major benfits from SSRI's. The newer double reuptake inhibitors don't seem to be much better.

Seem to be OK for OCD and for mood flattening. That is better to some than how they were feeling prior to it so they do help some but are far from a major medical breakthrough. And now there is some doubt whether the structural changes in the brain are really beneficial in the long run.


Personally I use Remeron but more for the sleep promoting aspect. And there is no 'discontinuation syndrome' with it as I have stopped it several times cold turkey and no w/d at all.

Excuse ny spelling mistakes as My brain is frozen.

 

[crOOk]

SSRE's is where its at really , less side effects , less dependency issues

He's referring to Selective Serotonine Reuptake Enhancers, not SSRI's (Selective Serotonine Reuptake Inhibitors). Their mechanism of action is still barely known and speculations about the stuff to compete for the same receptor site as ssri's bind to have proven wrong from what I could gather.

Here's what I could find:

There is actaully some medication I use to reverse mdma depressions - i used to use it until the online pharmacy closed. It is called 'tianeptine'. Instead of dulling my emotions like prozac does, it tends to amplify them. Tianeptine worked for me.

Source: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=17631

Another drug that mixes well with tramadol is tianeptine (Stablon). This is probably my favorite drug. To me, it's an authentic 'happy pill'. They look like candy - they're even sugar coated! Servier has some crazy marketing ideas, I guess they want it to be appealing to the kiddies. After I take about 25 - 50 mg of tianeptine I get a real happy, positive, good to be alive feeling (maybe euphoria) that lasts for an hour or two. I never notice it crashing - so it must drift away slowly. I've never noticed anything close to a hangover with tianeptine. It has a very subtle effect[...]

Source: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=58930

I had heard of Stablon (tianeptine) and was interested in its effects in combination with MDMA. I found that the use of Stablon with MDMA would prolong MDMA's effects for an additional 2 hours and lessen the comedown.

Source: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=46949

All this screams NMDA receptor antagonism if you ask me, but that's just an uneducated guess. There is some mention of the drug affecting the glutamate receptor system one way or the other. Now look at this:

Addictive potential of Tianeptine - the threatening reality.

A total of 24 patients (male volunteers), consumers of opiates in the past and suffering from Tianeptine abuse, were under clinical observation. The age range of patients was from 21 to 33 years. Tianeptine consumption history was 5 months duration on the average. The daily dose of preparation was 40 tablets (500 mg intravenous injections on the average). Patients used Tianeptine in combination with antihistamines (Promethazine, Suprastin). Research was carried out with the use of clinical, psychological and laboratory methods. Has been used Ch. Spilberger's scale of anxiety and T. Balashov's scale of depression. Comparison of withdrawal syndrome developed after cessation of Tianeptine and opiates consumption has shown that in case of Tianeptine, in the dynamic of withdrawal syndrome predominates well expressed high-level of anxiety and depression, while at opiates consumption - withdrawal syndrome is characterized by algesic events and vegetodysfunctions. Supposedly, Tianeptine, in contrast to other anti-depressants, stimulates release of neurotransmitter dopamine in nucleus Accumbens, that probably determine addictive potential of this drug. High level of anxiety, excitability and vegetodysfunctions, presumably could be explained by activation of the NMDA (glutamate receptors) receptor system in Locus coeruleus, and in vegetative ganglion. In the present article potential threat that may develop at Tianeptine consumption, especially in former opiate consumers, without medical purposes has been emphasized.

Source: Georgian Med News. 2009 Sep;(174):92-4.
Vadachkoria D, Gabunia L, Gambashidze K, Pkhaladze N, Kuridze N.
Scientific-Research Institute of Addiction, Tbilisi State Medical University.

Those IV heroin users sure know how to have a good time!

Structural plasticity and tianeptine: cellular and molecular targets.

The hippocampal formation, a structure involved in declarative, spatial and contextual memory, undergoes atrophy in depressive illness along with impairment in cognitive function. Animal model studies have shown that the hippocampus is a particularly sensitive and vulnerable brain region that responds to stress and stress hormones. Studies on models of stress and glucocorticoid actions reveal that the hippocampus shows a considerable degree of structural plasticity in the adult brain. Stress suppresses neurogenesis of dentate gyrus granule neurons, and repeated stress causes remodeling of dendrites in the CA3 region, a region that is particularly important in memory processing. Both forms of structural remodeling of the hippocampus are mediated by adrenal steroids working in concert with excitatory amino acids (EAA) and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors. EAA and NMDA receptors are also involved in neuronal death that is caused in pyramidal neurons by seizures, head trauma, and ischemia, and alterations of calcium homeostasis that accompany age-related cognitive impairment. Tianeptine (tianeptine) is an effective antidepressant that prevents and even reverses the actions of stress and glucocorticoids on dendritic remodeling in an animal model of chronic stress. Multiple neurotransmitter systems contribute to dendritic remodeling, including EAA, serotonin, and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), working synergistically with glucocorticoids. This review summarizes findings on neurochemical targets of adrenal steroid actions that may explain their role in the remodeling process. In studying these actions, we hope to better understand the molecular and cellular targets of action of tianeptine in relation to its role in influencing structural plasticity of the hippocampus.

Eur Psychiatry. 2002 Jul;17 Suppl 3:318-30.
McEwen BS, Magarinos AM, Reagan LP.
Harold and Margaret Milliken Hatch Laboratory of Neuroendocrinology, The Rockefeller University, New York, NY 10021, USA. [email protected]

The antidepressant tianeptine persistently modulates glutamate receptor currents of the hippocampal CA3 commissural associational synapse in chronically stressed rats.

Tianeptine is an antidepressant with proven clinical efficacy and effects on hippocampal plasticity. Hypoxia increased lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release from cortical neuronal cultures, and tianeptine (1, 10 and 100 microM) inhibited LDH release as efficiently as the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) antagonist, MK-801. However, tianeptine did not block apoptosis in cultured cortical neurones caused by NMDA, but reduced apoptosis when interleukin-1beta (IL-1beta) was included with NMDA. In 5-day old mice, intracerebral injection of ibotenate induced reproducible lesions in cortex and white matter. Lesion size was markedly reduced by co-administration of MK-801 (1 mg/kg i.p.) but neither by tianeptine or its enantiomers administered acutely (1, 3 or 10 mg/kg i.p.) nor by tianeptine administered chronically (10 mg/kg i.p. for 5 days). Chronic administration of IL-1beta (10 ng/kg i.p. for 5 days) prior to ibotenate injection exacerbated lesion size in cortex and white matter, and this exacerbation was prevented by chronic pre-treatment with tianeptine (10 mg/kg i.p.) or by acute administration of tianeptine (10 mg/kg i.p.) concomitantly with ibotenate. Thus tianeptine has neuroprotective effects against hypoxia in tissue culture and against the deleterious effects of cytokines in cortex and white matter, but not against NMDA receptor-mediated excitotoxicity.Eur J Neurosci. 2002 Sep;16(5):807-16.
Kole MH, Swan L, Fuchs E.
Division of Neurobiology, German Primate Center, Göttingen, Germany. mhpkoledpz.gwdg.de

SSRI's be warned, new drugs on the way! Imho this whole antidepressant thing could be developing much faster, but companies are still making massive cash with older generation antidepressants and slight modifications can still secure a med's position as the top selling antidepressant. Once a superior anti depressants with one of the various possible novel mechanisms of action will be released, other companies will sure follow with what they came up with in notime. But we will see, for now people are still eating citalopram and co as if it was candy.

 

[dopehope]

Any ideas on whether I have 4-FA here:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=550779

I ordered 2 samples, but they give different marquis / simons / robadope test results. Going to try mecke and mandelin in a few days too.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

The left one looks like the 4-FMP I always get, by colour and looks of powder.
The Marquis colour also seems right, but I'm not 100% sure if 4-FMP and MDMC gave the same colour.

Can you say anything about the smell?
4-FMP has a plastic-like smell, and gives a burning sensation in your nose (just when smelling it, not necessarily when snorting).
Perhaps you could also taste a little bit of both powders and note any differences in taste.

The Simon's colour of the right powder could be methamphetamine.
A poor chemist might end up with methamphetamine left in the final product.

 

[dopehope]

I can't really discern any burnt plastic smell, but the one on the right, with the more pinkish color definitely tastes stronger, more acidy. They are both sort of bitter. I am reading that blue on Simons means MDMA/MDE or indeed methamphetamine. I would certainly not want to have any methamphetamine. I'm figuring that I should go with the first vendor, or maybe get another sample to compare.

Just got get one thing straight, 4-FA is the same as 4-FMP, is that right? And neither of these could be M1?

I also ordered the Mecke and Mandelin tests, to see what they will give on these substances.

All very interesting to do this sort of research, I am new to it but it's fun!

Thanks..

The left one looks like the 4-FMP I always get, by colour and looks of powder.
The Marquis colour also seems right, but I'm not 100% sure if 4-FMP and MDMC gave the same colour.

Can you say anything about the smell?
4-FMP has a plastic-like smell, and gives a burning sensation in your nose (just when smelling it, not necessarily when snorting).
Perhaps you could also taste a little bit of both powders and note any differences in taste.

The Simon's colour of the right powder could be methamphetamine.
A poor chemist might end up with methamphetamine left in the final product.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

4-FA is the same af 4-FMP: 4-fluoroamphetamine.
I would go with the first vendor, the other product does not look like 4-FMP and neither has the right test results.

I am not 100% positive that your results on the white powder could not be MDMC (M1/methylone/bk-MDMA).
Sadly, I am currently out of MDMC so I can't check it up for you...

There is however an additional test you could perform:
4-FMP forms sturdy clumps when compressed between your fingers, whereas MDMC does not.
Also, MDMC is generally a much finer powder with very fluid characteristics.
4-FMP has the characteristics of fine but hard particles, like very small shards of plastic.
MDMC also has a shiny/sparkly tone, like there are very fine glass particles that reflect the light.

Oh and BTW, the smell is not of burnt plastic but of intact plastic.
Can't really specify what kind of plastic, LOL, but it just smells very synthetic.

 

[Mercc96]

really gutted that this is illegal in the United Kingdom, even though a ton of brits seem to be able to get their hands on it. How is a 4-FA / MDAI combo?

 

[severely etarded]

really gutted that this is illegal in the United Kingdom, even though a ton of brits seem to be able to get their hands on it. How is a 4-FA / MDAI combo?

4-FA is a fluoro beta ketone, makes you sick, many people say its like PMA.

 

[dopehope]

Here's some photos of the powder in the original quantities:

first vendor / left on test result:

second vendor / right on test result:

As you can see there is a clear distinction in color. These pics were both taken by daylight.

As for texture, both powders feel very soft, and the first one does not like you say feel like it has small hard shards of any kind when I compress it between my fingers (in the baggie). There are some lumps forming but that's just from the powder being so soft. The second powder is a bit the same and the lumps are bigger when compressed, like it is appearing sort of humid. It is definitely not sparkling with anything like you say about MDMC.

Someone in another thread told me there is 4-FA _and_ 4-FMP, but yes I also thought it is the same thing, just the latter is a more old-fashioned name for it.

Neither of the powders smell like anything, really. The second one smells a little bit, like the acidy taste, but nothing that reminds me of "synthetic" as you describe it. I wonder if even the first powder is 4-FA now.

I am getting the Mandelin and Mecke tests delivered tomorrow so then I can at least see some more reagent results. The minimum order for these is 100g so I want to be really sure of what I have before I go that expensive route.

4-FA is the same af 4-FMP: 4-fluoroamphetamine.
I would go with the first vendor, the other product does not look like 4-FMP and neither has the right test results.

I am not 100% positive that your results on the white powder could not be MDMC (M1/methylone/bk-MDMA).
Sadly, I am currently out of MDMC so I can't check it up for you...

There is however an additional test you could perform:
4-FMP forms sturdy clumps when compressed between your fingers, whereas MDMC does not.
Also, MDMC is generally a much finer powder with very fluid characteristics.
4-FMP has the characteristics of fine but hard particles, like very small shards of plastic.
MDMC also has a shiny/sparkly tone, like there are very fine glass particles that reflect the light.

Oh and BTW, the smell is not of burnt plastic but of intact plastic.
Can't really specify what kind of plastic, LOL, but it just smells very synthetic.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

I don't know if this is acceptable according to BL standards (??), but could you name the country from which the first vendor operates?
I have had a fine grain 4-FMP powder once, which was from Spain I believe.
This did not have the texture I mentioned, but was definitely 4-FMP.
So if your vendor operates from Spain, it might be the same and I am positive it will be 4-FMP.

Of course, you could also go organoleptic and just take 80 mg and describe the effects.
If it is active at an 80 mg dose and it gives certain effects, there is more evidence it could be 4-FMP.

 

[dopehope]

I don't know if this is acceptable according to BL standards (??), but could you name the country from which the first vendor operates?
I have had a fine grain 4-FMP powder once, which was from Spain I believe.
This did not have the texture I mentioned, but was definitely 4-FMP.
So if your vendor operates from Spain, it might be the same and I am positive it will be 4-FMP.

Neither of them were from Spain. I also don't know if this is acceptable to the BL standards, but I just joined and I cannot send a private message yet. But I think you can send me one, so then I can tell you more, ok? Then we can also speak in Dutch ;-)

Of course, you could also go organoleptic and just take 80 mg and describe the effects.
If it is active at an 80 mg dose and it gives certain effects, there is more evidence it could be 4-FMP.

Ok. Soon, maybe after the Mandelin and Mecke test results... I'm careful!

 

[dopehope]

Comparing my results to this thread below's 4-FA test result surprises me the most:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=512598

There is almost no reaction even in Marquis, in the above test. Nothing like the bright yellow I get in both of the substances:

Well, hopefully more conclusiveness with the Mecke and Mandelin tests in a few days.