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So Has Anyone Here Actually had a Chance to Play with Herkinorin

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daddysgone

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,114
Every few months, the salvia derived alkaloid, "herkinorin" gets discussed around here. I recall that the original interest in this substance was due to the fact that it seemed to behave as a potent mu agonist, but had some unique properties (involving the lack of recruiting beta arrestin) that suggested that it's use might not result in the typical tolerance/dependence issues, seen in other classes of mu agonists.
However, my guess (and I assume this is the general consensus) is that while herkinorin might not recruit beta arrestin, beta arrestin is likely only one piece of the pie which is comprised of many systems involved in the development of tolerance and dependence. I will go even further to say that I firmly believe that any substance which effectively acts as a mu agonist, will necessarily lead to dependence and tolerance. I just don't accept that the chronic use of ANY mu agonist, would not inevitably lead to tolerance and addiction.

However, what Im interested in here, is to hear of any reports from those who may have had a chance to experiment with herkinorin. Due to the simplicity of the process of making this stuff, I would be shocked to learn that no one has actually got a hold of any of this yet-and yet I don't believe I've seen any first hand reports on this substance.

Salvinorin is exceedingly easy to extract from the readily available salvia leaf, and the simple ester exchanges needed to convert salvinorin to herkinorin would certainly not be an obstacle for those wishing to find themselves in possesion of this product.

So- has anyone out there indeed experimented with this stuff? If so, I'd love to hear some reports and details about it. Cheers-DG
 
I still have something like 340mg of salvinorin A lying around here somewhere. I should look into this more.
 
It's been known about for a few years now. If it were worth the trouble you'd be hearing about it from the usual suspects. It was even briefly on the RC circuit through a couple vendors, wasn't it?

RE: Burroughs; the search for a non-addictive, non-euphoric palliative analgesic is a latter day quest for the philosophers stone, or fountain of youth, its a panacea that exists in fantasy.

I enjoyed reading your Dermorphin posts. I believe that if you conducted the same research and bioassay on Herkinorin, you could write and feel the exact same things verbatim as you did about Dermorphin.

Looks nice on paper, no warm and fuzzies.

This is why we need legal junk. All these people guzzeling Loperamide and peptides in the vain hope of tickling the same funny bone as Opium is a sign of nihilism. Like a shepard without a flock; or the other way around :)
 
Hammilton said:
I still have something like 340mg of salvinorin A lying around here somewhere. I should look into this more.
Click to expand...

Um yea....you should.
In my opinion, you have something like 340mg of the most unpredictable, terror-inducing substance I've yet to encounter. So, you have the choice of keeping this demon in its present form, or alternatively, you could EASILY transform this into what may well prove to be, a very exciting substance.

Honestly, just some very simple ester exchanges, and poof- you become one of the few people in the world in possession of herkinorin.

May I ask why you have not already pursued this route? I can't imagine that you enjoy salvinorin A (I would be shocked if you even took it more then a few times).
Has it simply not occurred to you to use this to make herkinorin, or have you not done this because you wouldn't exactly know what to do with herk once you ended up with it? I can very easily understand if it is the latter, because I certainly would be more then reluctant to experiment with something as potentially potent, and poorly understood as herkinorin. Do you know if it is orally active and what dose would be a reasonable starting point?

In any case, my guess is that herkinorin will not live up to the hype it has generated. The overly referenced statement that it "won't lead to tolerance and addiction" is almost certainly false. Beta arrestin ain't the only thing at play when it comes to tolerance/addiction.
Also, it appears the studies in primates indicate that the effects of herkinorin are mainly peripheral. Doesn't sound like that much fun-but still, if I were you I could go ahead and mix some up.
 
daddysgone said:
Every few months, the salvia derived alkaloid, "herkinorin" gets discussed around here.
Click to expand...

Herkinorin is not an alkaloid. It does not contain nitrogen. It has one of the acetyls of salvinorin A replaced by a benzoyl group.
 
I've used salvinorin A more than a hundred times, and I've never had a bad experience. Some odd experiences, but never a bad one.
 
Hammilton said:
I've used salvinorin A more than a hundred times, and I've never had a bad experience. Some odd experiences, but never a bad one.
Click to expand...

interesting. Do you find the effects of salvinorin A identical to that of a comparable dose of salvia? If there are differences in the effects between the two, could you describe them?

Also, id still love to hear from anyone that has actually experienced herkinorin.
 
Two things:

1) I have had a "bad" experience practically everytime I used Salvia, the last time I used Salvia I had a small vial of some of the extract and I smoked just a tiny bit of it. As soon as it took effect, I thought to myself: "I will never take salvia again." It just makes me feel terribly uncomfortable.

2) I would also love to hear firsthand experience reports, but I doubt anyone has really tried this.
 
I can't notice any difference between fortified leaf and pure salvinorin a.
 
Herkinorin is a strong kappa opioid agonist as well, if I remember right. Probably pushes down the abuse potential a lot.
 
Are you sure about that? I thought I read somewhere here on bluelight that the kappa activity wasn't actually that high.

I could certainly be wrong though.
 
QuasiStoned said:
Are you sure about that? I thought I read somewhere here on bluelight that the kappa activity wasn't actually that high.

I could certainly be wrong though.
Click to expand...

It is active at kappa, but to a much lesser extent then at mu (and a FAR lesser extent then salvinorin A's kappa activity)-But so what? Many opioids (especially the natural opiates) have some kappa activity as well. I've actually found that I prefer opioids/opiates with some kappa activity as compared to the pure mu agonists.
However, it looks like the problem with herkinorin is that it has mainly peripheral effects. It DOES have central effects, but not to the degree that one normally looks for in a recreational opioid.

For those who understand the chemical aspects, is there anything about herkinorin's structucre whihc suggest why it would have minimal central effects? I assume it must be due to problems crossing the BBB. Anyone have any ideas?
 
daddysgone said:
For those who understand the chemical aspects, is there anything about herkinorin's structucre whihc suggest why it would have minimal central effects? I assume it must be due to problems crossing the BBB. Anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...

It is highly lipophilic and should be able to cross the BBB easily...
 
MurphyClox said:
It is highly lipophilic and should be able to cross the BBB easily...
Click to expand...

Yes, thats what I thought. However Ive now read 3 different studies which suggest that there are strong peripheral effects and only minor CNS effects. So since herkinorin can easily permeate the BBB, is there another reason which might account for the minor CNS effects as compared to peripheral? Is it possible that herkinorin is actively pumped out of the brain very rapidly after crossing the BBB as is seen in loperamide? Or is it more likely that the (hilariously named) herkinorin simply has a higher affinity for peripheral receptors then it does central receptors?
 
Well, in primate studies it actually produces a much more profound analgesia in female primates than males. Perhaps something related to steroid metabolism debenzoxylates the substituted group to salvinorin and it get excreted. The IV doses looked at were also in the milligram range for humans, so I'm kind of dubious it's all that potent.

I wonder what the benzyloxy-ester is like.
 
Hey all
Thanks for all the responses, but Id like to get back to the original question I posed in this thread:

Simply-Has anyone here had the pleasure (or horror assuming the kappa activity is greater then anticipated), of experiencing herkinorin?

No on yet has suggested that they have first hand experience, which I find a bit surprising- considering both the ease which Salvinorin A can be procured, and the extreme ease that Salvinorin A can be made into herkinorin.

To Hammilton specifically (since he mentioned having a quantity of Salvinorin A), but also to anyone else who has access to this precursor:
Considering you already have the Salvinorin A, and clearly have the means to convert this to herkinorin, what is the reason/reasons, that you have neglected to go down this route?
To me, this offers the perfect opportunity to experiment with a completely new and novel opioid. The precursor is both legal and easy to precure, and the conversion to herkinorin is about as simple as it gets. Now sprinkle in the presumed interest in opioids (especially novel ones), and its hard to believe that no one has gone down this road, especially considering the vast amount of experience you guys have with substances which are both far harder to procure/create and offer far less in terms of potential atypical opioid effects.

Does this reluctance to experiment with this particular substance stem from incomplete knowledge regarding dosing or perhaps toxicity? Or have you simply surmised that this substance will be less then exciting? In any case, again, Id love to hear from ANY who have first hand experience, as well as those who could easily test this baby out, but have opted not to.- DG
 
I wouldn't say that I have the means. I'm simply friends with those who have the means. It's completely different. One thing to do something yourself, another to ask someone to do it for you.
 
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