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Difficulty Kicking Heroin...Tapering Suggestions?

B

BlisstoDevastation

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
32
First off, some background. I have been using heroin for about two years (wow, that's scary to type), Iving for about a year and a half, using daily for about a year (on and off). I have been to detox twice, once in late October/early November of 2008, once in March of 2009. The first stay was at a hospital (5 days, methadone aided detox), the second was at an inpatient rehab facility (it was of the 28 day type, I stayed for 10 days total, as that was all my insurance would cover; Darvocet aided detox...ugh, worthless). I use about a bundle per day (10 bags) of what I consider pretty high quality stuff (at least compared to everything else that I have encountered in my area). I typically use about 3 bags per shot, 3 shots per day.

I want this drug out of my life in the worst way. There is NO joy or enjoyment from using the drug...I use in order to function and get through my day somewhat comfortably. I simply CANNOT withstand the physical and mental withdrawal symptoms I encounter each time that I try to quit. I have had some moderate success using Suboxone to counter some of the w/d's in the past, but I have access to Sub now and it is still not enough. Even with the Suboxone, after the first day or so, the withdrawals become so bad that I just say "fuck it" and go pick up, rather than suffer through the physical and mental anguish.

Since jumping from my normal dose to cold turkey (or cold turkey with suboxone) isn't working for me, I was thinking that maybe if I taper off the heroin instead of just cutting it completely and abruptly, I may be able to lessen the withdrawals and finally get the shit out of my system. For example, since I normally do 3 bags in a shot, if I lowered the dose to 2 bags per shot for a day, then 1.5, than 1 for a day, wait close to 24 hours THEN take the Suboxone, perhaps the withdrawals will be tolerable. Has anyone done anything like this with any success? I really, really want this monkey off of my back. Any and all help will be appreciated.

I just want to add that the idea of going back to detox/rehab is simply not possible, for a variety of reasons. So please refrain from suggesting those options (although I do appreciate the consideration regardless). I also understand the importance of getting proper support, counseling, etc, etc. etc, but at the moment, my main focus and goal is getting over the withdrawal symptoms and getting the SHIT out of my system.

Thanks in advance.
 
Fuck, a bundle a day! That's a HUGE habit... how was the methadone working for you? Suboxone might not be potent enogugh for you...
 
velvetacidchrist said:
Fuck, a bundle a day! That's a HUGE habit... how was the methadone working for you? Suboxone might not be potent enogugh for you...
Click to expand...

Here's the annoying thing. When I was in the first detox, where they gave methadone, it did work, quite well in fact. I told this to my counselor in my outpatient program I was in recently, and she and I tried to get me into a methadone program. We spoke to a few clinics in my area, and we discovered that BY LAW (a really, really shitty law) I can't get into a methadone program, because I have not been in treatment LONG ENOUGH. Yes, you read that correctly. Where I am, methadone clinics will not accept someone unless they have been in documented treatment of some kind (in or outpatient, detox, etc.) for AT LEAST A YEAR. Since the first treatment I ever did was in late October (about 7 months ago), I am not eligible. I guess I haven't suffered enough. :/ I suppose that methadone treatment is essentially used as a "last resort," only available to addicts that have exhausted all other treatment options without success, thus the absurd 1 year rule. This rule takes away medicine from addicts that may find methadone more useful than Suboxone, such as myself. So basically, when it comes to methadone, I'm screwed. Unless I can find the shit on the street (which is EXTREMELY unlikely where I am...I know what people are peddling, and no one is in the methadone business), I am shit out of luck. :(
 
Where the hell do you live...? That's ridiculous... most places you can simply walk into a clinic, sign in, get your dose every day :P Treatment for a year? What the fuck is the point of MMT after a year of treatment?
 
velvetacidchrist said:
Where the hell do you live...? That's ridiculous... most places you can simply walk into a clinic, sign in, get your dose every day
Click to expand...

I actually live just a little more than an hour away from the busiest metropolis in the the goddamn world, and I'm stuck with this ridiculous policy. Maybe I'll think about trekking the hour and a half each morning to get my methadone. :/ grr
 
I'm currentl tapering with dope as well. Had a 6-9 bag a day habit but due to having little access to funds now I am tryin to wean myself down and off it for good. First day i did only 6, the next day i did 5 1/2, etc. Today I only did 3 bags, 1 bag shot in the mornin when i wake, 1 in the noon, and 1 at night a little before bed time. I've been stuck at this routine for a couple more days than i should have been though. I'm not even getting high, just keeping the w/d at bay. So i think you should try weaning yourself down.

What w/d symptoms do you experience btw? I know people experience different symptoms and to higher degrees of severeity.
 
Georgie25 said:
I'm currentl tapering with dope as well. Had a 6-9 bag a day habit but due to having little access to funds now I am tryin to wean myself down and off it for good. First day i did only 6, the next day i did 5 1/2, etc. Today I only did 3 bags, 1 bag shot in the mornin when i wake, 1 in the noon, and 1 at night a little before bed time. I've been stuck at this routine for a couple more days than i should have been though. I'm not even getting high, just keeping the w/d at bay. So i think you should try weaning yourself down.

What w/d symptoms do you experience btw? I know people experience different symptoms and to higher degrees of severeity.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the tips, and good luck to you.

As for your question, I experience pretty much the whole spectrum of w/d symptoms: sweating (while usually feeling like im freezing), intense stomach pain/inability to eat, extreme body aches, inability to get comfortable even under blankets, terrible anxiety and depression . It's usually the anxiety and depression that cause to me to crack and go pick up...I get ridiculously emotional where I'm bawling one minute and contemplating suicide the next...
 
Please don't tell me I'm speaking out of turn as someone who has only smoked a little street H during lean periods of pharms supply. I do have an experience which I believe may have some degree of relevancy. Once upon a time I had stupidly easy access to pharmaceutical morphine IV ampoules. I quickly became basically as out of hand a junkie on these as any street Heroin user. When I realised the detriments to my life of this habit I successfully quit by tapering - eventually. Don't taper your dose too fast and backslide, it's too demoralizing. Pick a small increment every day or two that you can really stick to and do so. Give yourself time and remember withdrawal will still occur when you finally quit even if it's not as bad and has a larger psychological component - don't expect a magic ticket out of the opiate hole!
Really wish you all the best and good luck getting the monkey off your back mate :)
Peace, Ethnobot.
 
^ It is fucking horrid. I have had mild ope wd and fuck me.. I don't even wanna know about the heavy shit. I guess I just have terrible will-power.

You have just convinced me to never do heroin unless its an extreme last resort. Fuck using for the sake of curbing withdrawal, thatd be so dissatisfying and terrible. Although, how long does the use remain enjoyable since when u started? I know that it varies from person to person of course.
 
have you considered ibogaine? it's expensive and you'll most likely have to leave the country to get it. however, i've known several H addicts who swear that it saved them. research it.

otherwise, i'd taper as low as you can. switch to week long suboxone, then jump. use kratom to combat the post WD stuff. you have to really want to get off. most people hit bottom before they kick.

good luck man.
 
I'm seriously interested in the Ibogaine topic, but see no other replies on this topic .... sorry (new to the board) for asking how to navigate the board, but is there an in-depth on Ibogaine? I've watched the You Tube vids on it and Googled around a bit, but I'd love to see whether it's worked (or didn't work, or whatever) from more people who tried it (those without a motivation $ to get people to try it, or without an axe to grind because they're blaming it for not working for them).

Is there a thread on this somewhere? Can someone PM me on it since I'm clueless on how to navigate this board (learning, but slowly....)? Thanks.
 
TriggerHappy said:
have you considered ibogaine? it's expensive and you'll most likely have to leave the country to get it. however, i've known several H addicts who swear that it saved them. research it.

otherwise, i'd taper as low as you can. switch to week long suboxone, then jump. use kratom to combat the post WD stuff. you have to really want to get off. most people hit bottom before they kick.

good luck man.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the suggestions, but ibogaine is definitely out of the question. I can't go to detox because I don't want certain people to know about my habit, so I definitely can't leave the country. And I don't have much money either. :/

And I'm not sure I subscribe to the "rock-bottom" idea, because there is always a lower point an addict can get to, unless your "rock-bottom" is death. I have definitely reached my lowest point before, and still went back to using; for some absurb reason, I wasn't ready to stop. Currently I am not as low as I have been in some respects, but I am much more ready to stop.

side note: I haven't properly begun tapering yet, but I wanted to mention that the other day I took Suboxone (had no dope) and it did VERY little to ease with withdrawals, and this was at 12 mgs, not a small dose. :/ I'm beginning to think that Suboxone is simply not helpful for me anymore. I remember early in the progression of my addiction (when I was only snorting heroin) Suboxone worked FABULOUSLY to alleviate withdrawal symptoms when I was trying to quit. Now, it gets rid of my sweating but does little, if anything, for my body aches and stomach distress. I really think that methadone could be helpful, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, the stupid rules of my area prevent me from getting the stuff. :( it's so very frustrating.
 
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Hello People I am also trying to self detox with least WD but can't post a new thread yet, Does any one have any suggestions on the restless legs at night that drives me nuts the rest I can deal with but up all night with my legs going I can't.. Thanks... when you say 10 bags is that about a gram ?? We get Grams and halfs here so just trying to compare..
 
^ yeah 10 bags are supposed to be a gram. Around here you can get 12-14 bags in a pack if you buy prepacked dope.

blaze-

Have you thought about instead of shooting multiple bags in a shot maybe try to switch down to snorting your dope? Once you stabilize than switch back to sub. When your jacking dope in your arm the w/d is so much worse. I cant recall how much dope I was shooting when I jumped to suboxone but it definitely was around a pack a day. I was on 32mg of bupe though for a few years. Some people say bupe doesnt work but I have no experience with that. I tried methadone for a couple years prior to bupe and what a headache. Making the switch from dope [iv] to bupe sometimes doesnt happen over night and takes conditioning but it can happen over night.

Personally I think tapering on heroin is well just not going to happen at least for me. Switching a route of administration though can considerable lessen w/d's. The best way is to just jump off and deal with it but that is sooo much easier said than done.

peace.
seedless
 
My friend likes to taper down, me I've always prefer to jump right off and get it over in a week or so.

Different strokes dif folks.

Coming of methadone was horrible though probably didn't feel back to normal for a around a month
 
i too have just started trying to self detox and its so hellish for me. i had about a 5-6 bag (when conserving) to a 12-15 bag (when money was good) a day habit. i sniffed all my dope. before that i was all into oxys then end of april discovered dope and that was pretty much it for me til now. here and there id get some oxys when i couldnt get d. yeah i know my habit isnt that long and its not that bad but the w/ds have just been killing me. when i ran outta dope tues, weds i went and got a blue with i did around 430 which did almost nothing obviously but keep me from taking my subs so i was up all night restless with some chills and sweats but afraid to take my sub til about 8am. yesterday i took about 2mgs suboxone (didnt feel great but i was afraid to do more because i really want to avoid w'ds from it and i only have about 16 mgs left) and at night i took .5 kpin. i'm picking up some xannies later to help with anxiety and to help me sleep at night. i brought my girl to detox monday and she was the one i had here for me and helped me. now my head races about all the runs we did and going down and getting it and just the whole process. its killing me. i just want my life back. now i have no one. so i was wondering what doses should i be taking to avoid being sick at all costs while weaning off the shit? i'm just scared and i have to be okay and get thru this with the least pain possible.
 
What alot of people dont understand about addiction is it lasts WAY LONGER then just the 1-2 weeks it takes to get through the withdrawls.
I read that after TWO YEARS of sobriety, a herion users percentage of relapse DROPS to 60%.
And thats after two years.. Getting through the withdrawls is just the beginning of a fucked up road we all put ourselves on. Good luck.
 
yeah i know. my head is so fucked going in so many directions. its really getting to me. i just dont know what to do with myself anymore
 
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