FDA On Removing Vicodin, Percocet From Market & Limiting APAP: Merged Thread

[ThaiDie4]

If Vicodin & Percocet get banned, doctors will have no choice but to give out pure opiates for pain, and I think that's a good idea.

I hope you are right. I love hydrocodone, but I definently have to be careful with taking Vicodins and stuff because of all the APAP in them (need to learn how to do a CWE...) I will be seriously pissed if they straight up pull these products off the market I hope they just reduce\remove the APAP. Not to mention, I'm getting my tonsils AND wisdom teeth taken out next month, and if I have to endure weeks of hell with no relief I will be very upset

 

[garuda]

What is most likely to happen IF all opiate/opioid APAP combo pills get pulled from the market, and no rescheduling happens is that tramadol will replace vicodin and Tylenol#3 as the go to drug for pain from your primary physician or the ER. I believe this is a tactic to eliminate schedule 3 narcotics for pain, leaving only schedule 2 which you will only see in a pain management clinic and tramadol for everyone else.

Everyone thinking this is a good thing are mistaken.

 

[SECONAL]

....I will be seriously pissed if they straight up pull these products off the market I hope they just reduce\remove the APAP. Not to mention, I'm getting my tonsils AND wisdom teeth taken out next month, and if I have to endure weeks of hell with no relief I will be very upset

Me too, ThaiDie4. I love hydrocodone and if the pharma company who makes Vicodin could simply make an APAP-free version of Vicodin that would be fantastic! People could safely use their products without the nasty side effects

P.S. good luck with having your tonsils and wisdom teeth taken out, hopefully they will give you good opiates for pain!

 

[dokomo]

As I said in another thread, all that this will bring about is the replacement of acetaminophen with ibuprofen, resulting in kidney failure and gastrointestinal bleeding, rather than liver failure. CWE's are also much less useful with ibuprofen than they are with acetaminophen. A move to ban these drugs is NOT good news for anyone in this forum.

Big pharma will NOT make a pure version of Vicodin, because doctors will not prescribe it. Doctors will not prescribe it, because the DEA is constantly policing CII prescriptions. All that this move will result in is increased use of things like tramadol and even worse access to pain relief for American citizens.

 

[SECONAL]

Big pharma will NOT make a pure version of Vicodin, because doctors will not prescribe it. Doctors will not prescribe it, because the DEA is constantly policing CII prescriptions. All that this move will result in is increased use of things like tramadol and even worse access to pain relief for American citizens.

Why not? oxycodone and other opiates come in pure form, and I think it would make perfect sense to produce pure hydrocodone. Doctors will still prescribe it, just like other ones, and the DEA still will montior all controlled medications. The current vicodin is a CIII controlled substance (because it's mixed with a non-controlled item), and pure hydro is CII, so making a pure version of hydro would only move it up one level.

 

[socalrollin]

why dont they just make pure hyrdo's, oxy's etc etc...

does the apap really help with the painkilling effects that much?

sounds like a great idea to me. vicodin, norco, oxy there all huge companies and there definitely not going to just go away. there just going to make there pills better for us.

 

[thadocta13]

Darvocet is one of the worst opiates out there. I've read *many* reviews online from people who take the stuff, and it seems to do more harm than good. I guess if a person is faced with going through WD's or having to use darvocet to aviod them - they'd choose the Darvocet.

yeah darvocet just sucks ass. i wouldn't even take them as an alternative or to help with WD's. just to get high, you have to get sick. unless you have a liver made of steel. maybe if i were new to popping pills, then i could handle them.

 

[garuda]

Why not? oxycodone and other opiates come in pure form, and I think it would make perfect sense to produce pure hydrocodone. Doctors will still prescribe it, just like other ones, and the DEA still will montior all controlled medications. The current vicodin is a CIII controlled substance (because it's mixed with a non-controlled item), and pure hydro is CII, so making a pure version of hydro would only move it up one level.

You don't understand, schedule 2 meds have many additional restrictions and scrutiny on doctors. Doctors will not just shrug and write for schedule 2 meds, they'll likely just write for tramadol.

 

[SECONAL]

You don't understand, schedule 2 meds have many additional restrictions and scrutiny on doctors. Doctors will not just shrug and write for schedule 2 meds, they'll likely just write for tramadol.

It's not that I don't understand "garuda", I know CII's do have extra limits and heavy restrictions - but so do CIII's too (which are slightly less limited in that way) - and yes, some docs are reluctant in scripting them just as well as some docs don't like scripting CIII's, Lartabs, benzos or opiates of any kind. It all depends on your doctor, and because all controlled substances are over-looked by the DEA doesn't mean a patient doesn't deserve them.

If someone has a legit medical need, then they should have the right to recieve CII opiates/medications...and if the doctor isn't willing to properly treat your pain with them because of a "fear" of the DEA or just because their being a jerk....then the patient needs to find a better doc.

All I was saying is that I don't believe narcotics or anyother medication should be mixed with APAP(or ibuprofen) because It can be unsafe. Yeah, tramadol and darvocet are crappy and don't do much for pain, but if your doc pushes it on you if these meds do get banned - then be honest about your disliking of then request an opiate. Any good doc should know that tramadol etc. aren't any good.

 

[garuda]

It's not that I don't understand "garuda", I know CII's do have extra limits and heavy restrictions - but so do CIII's too (which are slightly less limited in that way) - and yes, some docs are reluctant in scripting them just as well as some docs don't like scripting CIII's, Lartabs, benzos or opiates of any kind. It all depends on your doctor, and because all controlled substances are over-looked by the DEA doesn't mean a patient doesn't deserve them.

If someone has a legit medical need, then they should have the right to recieve CII opiates/medications...and if the doctor isn't willing to properly treat your pain with them because of a "fear" of the DEA or just because their being a jerk....then the patient needs to find a better doc.

All I was saying is that I don't believe narcotics or anyother medication should be mixed with APAP(or ibuprofen) because It can be unsafe. Yeah, tramadol and darvocet are crappy and don't do much for pain, but if your doc pushes it on you if these meds do get banned - then be honest about your disliking of then request an opiate.

Sorry I was not trying to insult you, I was trying to say the most likely scenario if this does happen is this:

Primary care physicians and emergency rooms flat out will not RX schedule 2 meds for pain, even now its rare to find one who will.
Those who need or want schedule 2 meds will likely be forced to enter a pain management clinic. The go to drug for these situations will become tramadol.

So a large population that is now getting pain meds that are on schedule 3 will not be able to get these meds anymore once they are on schedule 2, those who can't afford or don't want the added obligations of a pain management clinic.

Really just read some threads here for examples of doctors telling patients ''don't even ask for C2 meds"".

 

[SECONAL]

Sorry I was not trying to insult you, I was trying to say the most likely scenario if this does happen is this:

Primary care physicians and emergency rooms flat out will not RX schedule 2 meds for pain, even now its rare to find one who will.
Those who need or want schedule 2 meds will likely be forced to enter a pain management clinic. The go to drug for these situations will become tramadol.

So a large population that is now getting pain meds that are on schedule 3 will not be able to get these meds anymore once they are on schedule 2, those who can't afford or don't want the added obligations of a pain management clinic.

Really just read some threads here for examples of doctors telling patients ''don't even ask for C2 meds"".

No, I didn't take offense to your response IDK, maybe it's because CII meds are a little more available in my side of town than other places.

It's just that I would think if someone was already taking Vicodin or percocet, that their doctor would be willing to switch them over to something like a low dose of OxyContin or pure hydrocodone (if it was available on the maket if Vics and Pers were banned). Primary care physicians and emergency rooms DO RX CII's (at least where I'm from) if the person was in need of it.... But like I said before, it all depends on the doctor.

I've had CII narcotics scripted in the ER and in the office without records, the doc just went with what I said and request after I complained about being in pain....I have Vicodin and Percocet & know that the APAP isn't healthy and the idea of hydrocodone being made in a pure form would be a safer option.

 

[cocacrazy]

I hope you are right. I love hydrocodone, but I definently have to be careful with taking Vicodins and stuff because of all the APAP in them (need to learn how to do a CWE...) I will be seriously pissed if they straight up pull these products off the market I hope they just reduce\remove the APAP. Not to mention, I'm getting my tonsils AND wisdom teeth taken out next month, and if I have to endure weeks of hell with no relief I will be very upset

I doubt that they will pull it considering it's the number 1 prescribed opiate.

Merk definitely isn't going to let this happen without a fight.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

I do appreciate the fact that someone on the FDA council finally used their central nervous system, realizing that if someone wants two chemicals, they should just take two chemicals separately, instead of taking a combination product if only one is desired (with the classic irony that the un-needed admix of the combo is toxic). However, the difference between Schedule II and Schedule III is utterly fucking massive--the drug scheduling system in this country is random in its placement of chemicals and inversely exponential in its surveillance/prosecution of chemicals, making it extremely likely that a large number of people will no longer be able to obtain opioid-level analgesia.

A logical compromise would be to make pure codeine and dihydrocodeine C-III, along with tapentadol. Then companies could just make low-dose versions of the stronger morphinians (like oxycodone and hydrocodone) as C-II products. But logic and drug policy are like matter and antimatter: whenever they collide, a giant clusterfuck ensues.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

yeah darvocet just sucks ass. i wouldn't even take them as an alternative or to help with WD's. just to get high, you have to get sick. unless you have a liver made of steel. maybe if i were new to popping pills, then i could handle them.

A couple years ago , I had a LASIK-type surgery, PRK, which is a bit more invasive and has some pain management intended for aftercare.

As the doctor whipped out her prescription pad, I asked what kind of pain medication I was being prescribed.

"Darvocet." she replied.

I stood up.

"Don't even bother writing it," I said. "I'm gonna go get me some heroin."

And that's just what I did. The look on her face was fucking priceless. :D

 

[Tchort]

Leave Darvon alone. Bullies.

It serves a very real and necessary action in palliative pain relief for minor pain.

Darvocet should be removed from the market; but not Darvon (Propoxyphene HCL or Darvon-N Propoxyphene Napsylate). No tool should be removed from the tool box needlessly.

On that note, I want to make a petition to bring back Thalidimide. Don't lie, you'd shoot it too. Make purple babies.

 

[phr]

Hmmm, I wonder if the manufacturers will lobby against this...

 

[garuda]

Hmmm, I wonder if the manufacturers will lobby against this...

Aren't most RXs for vicodin and percocet really generics? The generic manufacturers don't seem to have much lobbying power for whatever reason, they seem to be smaller foreign firms for the most part. I know they routinely seem to get spanked when they take on big pharma.

I could see the big pharm companies getting behind this ban 100%, they would love for all the current scripts for generics to be replaced by new patented NSAIDS or anti-inflammitories or Lyrica.

 

[Tchort]

Maybe this is all part of the rollout for Nucynta :D

 

[robatussin]

^^^wow i looked in to that and it sounds like a mix of a tramadolesque opiate (full agonist) and a noreprenephrine reuptake inhibitor. If this is about to come out the pharm companies knew when the laws would pass. I hope someone has info on this soon

 

[phr]

^
I'd imagine that most opiate/other drug scripts are filled by generics... But, I wonder how they feel about this. I can't imagine that they'd want to be bumped up to CII status, due to prescribing limitations and a greater fear of CII's. But a forced drop in active non-opiod per pill would be something that could potentially lead to more use, either through prescribed use that could take a bite out of the CII's market and through increased recreational use...

Still, I don't see anything other than the cheapest option, black box warning, happening.