Michael Jackson thread - MJ articles and discussion

Jackson was seriously depressed, is it possible that the doctor helped him commit suicide? I think its unlikely that the doctor gave him opiates daily and didn't have or know to use naloxone... I think its either, as has been said, that he was on too many other drugs (I have read he used xanax, ativan and valium in the past to deal with stress during trials) or that it was suicide or physician-assisted suicide.

These are my guesses.
 
It may have gone something like this: the meperidine caused an unexpected cardiac arrythmia/palpitations so the doctor administered lidocaine to halt them. The lidocaine may have been too high a dosage or MJ was sensitive to it, and increased the respiratory depression of meperidine or simply caused cardiac arrest by blocking voltage gated sodium channels. Even if the naloxone was administered, it wouldn't have blocked the toxicity of lidocaine, which is difficult to reverse.
^^^ I think we have a winner. I'd guess he probably was on a benzo (or two), another opiate (or two) and an SSRI.... On top of the Demerol and lidocaine. This sucks for mj, is he just had a taste for a different opiate he would probably still be alive.
 
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I'm the king of pop and all I got is fucking Demerol.



Should have looked into the doctor Anna Nichole Smith used.
 
Lupus, Vertialago

I'm going to try and explain this: Michael suffered from Lupus for many years; the gene that causes Lupus also causes Virtiligo, both Auto-immune diseases.

No, he wasn't trying to commit suicide, that was pretty fucking sick to suggest that!

Look, I have Fibromyalgia (which oftentimes coincides with Lupus), Chronic Migraines, RLS, Nerve neurapathy in all limbs, nerve damage, etc. - and I take a cocktail of medicines, to ease the pain, and walk, exercise. All the times I've ever posted on here, it's been propped up on the bed, typing on my laptop!

Michael did a grueling performance rehearsal the night before - he had it down pat.

The Cardiologist was hired by the company backing Michael's tour, to KEEP HIM SAFE.
Unfortunately, with Lupus, you have side effects from the cortisone shots they give you, to help ease the pain.

I personally get cortizone shots in my neck and lumbar, every so often now, to help ease the pain. I can attest that 30 mg of Demerol given to me in the ER did NOTHING for me, after the shot...at first! Within an hour, hit me like a hammer, and I was down.

I can completely see how an accident happened, especially if he was on other drugs for depression and chronic pain.

WHY the hell wasn't there a Defibrillator on the premises? Better yet, why don't we ALL have a Defibrillator at home!? THAT is the only thing that could've saved Michael.

I am sickened by his death - because those of us who really need pain relief, are fighting to keep the extended release oxys and such, as legal. When both of your legs contract so severely, believe you me - you no longer care if the drug is addictive - as long as THAT pain never gets that bad again.

Michael, you can now do whatever you want - sing, dance, and be free from worry - you always had the voice of an angel, so get them into shape up there!
 
If he was injected with a large dose of lidocaine (why?) that would probably be a relatively good explanation for cardiac arrest, since it has similar cardiotoxic systematic effects to cocaine.

It may have gone something like this: the meperidine caused an unexpected cardiac arrythmia/palpitations so the doctor administered lidocaine to halt them.

He wouldn't even had to have been given too high a lidocaine dose, any dose would have been too high.

Meperidine blocks sodium channels the same way that lidocaine does, though it's not as potent a local anaesthetic. Giving lidocaine to someone who was already having cardiac problems due to meperidine would greatly exacerbate the problem- a dose that would have been on the low end of therapeutic would only have made things worse.

I can't wait to hear if some jackass actually gave him lidocaine, because if he wasn't dead already, they probably caused or at least hastened his death.

edit: here's a reference

Anesthesiology. 1999 Nov;91(5):1481-90. Links
Meperidine and lidocaine block of recombinant voltage-dependent Na+ channels: evidence that meperidine is a local anesthetic.Wagner LE 2nd, Eaton M, Sabnis SS, Gingrich KJ.
Department of Anesthesiology, University of Rochester School of Medicine, Rochester, New York 14642, USA.

BACKGROUND: The opioid meperidine induces spinal anesthesia and blocks nerve action potentials, suggesting it is a local anesthetic. However, whether it produces effective clinical local anesthesia in peripheral nerves remains unclear. Classification as a local anesthetic requires clinical local anesthesia but also blockade of voltage-dependent Na+ channels with characteristic features (tonic and phasic blockade and a negative shift in the voltage-dependence of steady-state inactivation) involving an intrapore receptor. The authors tested for these molecular pharmacologic features to explore whether meperidine is a local anesthetic. METHODS: The authors studied rat skeletal muscle mu1 (RSkM1) voltage-dependent Na+ channels or a mutant form heterologously coexpressed with rat brain Na+ channel accessory beta1, subunit in Xenopus oocytes. Polymerase chain reaction was used for mutagenesis, and mutations were confirmed by sequencing. Na+ currents were measured using a two-microelectrode voltage clamp. Meperidine and the commonly used local anesthetic lidocaine were applied to oocytes in saline solution at room temperature. RESULTS: Meperidine and lidocaine produced tonic current inhibition with comparable concentration dependence. Meperidine caused phasic current inhibition in which the concentration-response relationship was shifted to fivefold greater concentration relative to lidocaine. Meperidine and lidocaine negatively shifted the voltage dependence of steady-state inactivation. Mutation of a putative local anesthetic receptor reduced phasic inhibition by meperidine and lidocaine and tonic inhibition by lidocaine, but not meperidine tonic inhibition. CONCLUSIONS: Meperidine blocks Na+ channels with molecular pharmacologic features of a local anesthetic. The findings support classification of meperidine as a local anesthetic but with less overall potency than lidocaine.

WHY the hell wasn't there a Defibrillator on the premises? Better yet, why don't we ALL have a Defibrillator at home!? THAT is the only thing that could've saved Michael.

I realize you don't have a great knowledge of pharmaceuticals and et cetera, but that's a nonsensical comment because either A. he died from a naloxone-reversible OD, and a defibrillator would have done nothing or B. He died from meperidine-induced cardiotoxicity which, which there's a good chance a defibrillator would have done nothing, with the lidocaine, it would likely have been useless.

With cocaine, it wears off short enough so you just have to keep the guys heart going until sodium channels are open again, so a debrillator should work fine enough, but with lidocaine and meperidine, both have substantial half lives and it's unlikely a defibrillator would have made much difference, because without working sodium channels, you can't keep a steady rhythm.
 
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Absynthe, why was it sick to suggest what I did? By the the way, I also have sever chronic pain and have been on a cocktail of medicines for 3 years so please don't lecture me on its perils. I have been the most active member in OD's Chronic Pain mega thread.

I think the CP makes it MORE likely that he wouldn't want to deal with the horrible pain and suffering anymore. I know I've spent a lot of time suicidal because I was terrified of decades more pain and limited function.
 
Former nanny 'stomach pumped' Jackson

duno how to embed shit from other sites so il just cut and paste

thought some of you might find it interesting



The former nanny of Michael Jackson's three children said she regularly had to pump his stomach to remove cocktails of painkillers, British newspapers reported on Sunday.

Grace Rwaramba, who was abruptly sacked by Jackson in December, also spoke of her fears for the future of the children following his death and has flown to Los Angeles from Europe hoping to be reunited with them.

The Jackson family are angry at the unanswered questions surrounding the star's final hours, amid reports that the singer's doctor Conrad Murray injected him with the painkiller Demerol shortly before his death.

Rwaramba, 42, said in comments reported by The Sunday Times that the star was addicted to narcotic painkillers.

"I had to pump his stomach many times. He always mixed so much of it.

"There was one period that it was so bad that I didn't let the children see him... He always ate too little and mixed too much."

She said she once appealed to Jackson's mother, Katherine, and sister, Janet, to intervene and persuade him to seek treatment for his addiction, but Michael turned on her and accused her of betrayal.

"He didn't want to listen; that was one of the times he let me go," she said.

Rwandan-born Rwaramba worked for Jackson for more than a decade, first as an office assistant before becoming nanny to his children, 12-year-old Michael Jr, known as Prince, Paris, 11, and Prince Michael II, seven, nicknamed Blanket.

She was finally dismissed in December last year, but claims she returned several times to see the children, making her most recent trip in April.

Tabloid newspaper News of the World - which is owned by the same company as The Sunday Times - said she had screamed with shock when she heard of the star's death, while she was at the Swiss home of TV interviewer Daphne Barak.

Rwaramba told Barak in an interview quoted by the tabloid that her first thought was for the children.

"I'm really distraught for them. Michael hadn't been eating and the kids have been so scared for him.

"Now the youngest has been saying, 'Why Daddy? God should have taken me not him.'

"I took these babies in my arms on the first day of each of their lives. They are my babies."

She claimed the children had an uneasy relationship with their father, recalling a recent incident when Blanket performed a mini-concert for her of his father's songs.

"I was laughing so hard. Prince and Paris were playing around," she said. "It was such a happy moment. Then suddenly Michael walked in and the kids just looked frightened. Michael was so angry."

The fate of Jackson's children is unclear with reports raising the possibility of a custody battle involving Debbie Rowe, the biological mother of his two eldest offspring.
 
Like... you think she rolled him and tried to get him to puke, or do you think he was so fucked up they had to literally keep stomach pumping equipment around?
 
The ass-covering begins

Lawyer: Doctor Found Jackson with Pulse

Posted Jun 28th 2009 6:34PM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonDr. Conrad Murray's lawyer is now saying that when Murray found Michael Jackson, he had a faint pulse.

Murray's lawyer, Edward Chernoff, says Murray went into Jackson's bedroom and saw that he wasn't breathing. Chernoff told the AP, "He just happened to find him in his bed, and he wasn't breathing. Mr. Jackson was still warm and had a pulse."

Chernoff says Murray immediately began administering CPR.

Chernoff says Murray did not prescribe or give Jackson Demerol or OxyContin
. Chernoff says any drugs Murray did prescribe were given in response to a specific complaint from Jackson.
 
I have suffered depression since I was 13, and been battling chronic pain since 2003.
NO FRIGGIN' WAY would I want to die, because I know medicine and exercise can help me LIVE!

Michael didn't want the pain - I don't blame him for doing his best with it; the doctors give us drug cocktails as it is (I'm given morphine or norco, 2 - 3 x per day; valium 4x day; Celebrex, 2x day; Soma, 2x day; Requip, 3x day; Topamax, 2x day; lyrica, 2 x day; belladonna w/phenobarbitol, 2x day, MMJ as needed), and those are just my core drugs! Yes, it's a frickin' cocktail - NOT to all be taken at the same time! Yes, I have enough drugs to stop me from breathing, if I wanted to - but why would I? I'm working my ass off to stop, or reduce my pain, and my drugs. If some drugs weren't so damned expensive, I could get away with THREE of the above drugs, nothing more; I did that for 5 years, but then I lost ALL health insurance, and my Fibromyalgia pain is in full force.

Michael had everything in the world to care for - it was NOT a suicide; children who loved him, that he loved and cared about.

I personally desire to live, be happy. If I'm a goddamn drug addict, I don't give a damn! Much better than me only able to stand up 4 hours a day. 8 hours would make me happy, and I'm trying.

Michael, I believe, has tried to stay out of pain from dibilitating illnesses, and wound up with a heavy tolerance, and perhaps he still took his 'cocktail.'

To me, suicide is something you FIGHT; you don't do it, it's a copout, letdown, and doesn't solve shit.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary issue.

BTW - I broke my neck @ C6 in March, hit by an SUV on my bicycle in April - and I'm now fighting FIVE discs that have prematurely collapsed, from being ruptured. To stop the pain, I can either continue my drug cocktail - or I can go for 5 disc replacement surgery...that looks like the way to go to stop my pain, since Sciatica is in full force (no; never had it before).

In Fibromyalgia, suicide IS the #1 cause of death - why it gets drilled into the Fibro patient's head, the pain WILL get better, and there ARE options, for unremitting pain. One of my cousins has been on a Morphine pump for 17 years - THAT takes guts!

Living takes guts - and Michael had it back again, and did a near flawless performance the night before, after dancing for 4 hours with his hand selected troup. He wasn't a quitter. People are welcome to believe whatever they want, but those of us out in LA know how he never gave up, not even to pain.

Most likely, the Lupus s/e killed him...the coroner is STILL out on why he died.
 
That is great that you feel the way you do about life and suicide but all you are doing is projecting how YOU feel onto him. You have literally no idea how he felt or why he did the things he did in his life and possibly in his death. I know this because there is no possible way you can know.

You are just either projecting or hoping, either way both are some of the most unreliable methods of figuring something out. I was proposing a theory but I wouldn't argue for its validity without some real scientific evidence.

I think its likely that he didn't commit suicide but was posing it as a possibility because there is an immense causal link between chronic pain and suicide. CP patients are far more likely to off themselves then the general population. Addicts as well are far more likely to commit suicide.

I am currently enjoying life and have goals and desires but when the pain truly consumed me, the only reason I didn't end it was because I couldn't hurt the people who cared. I personally wanted to die so badly so the pain would stop.
 
Nutritionist: Michael Jackson begged for sedative
By LYNN ELBER, Associated Press Writer
YAHOO! News
June 30, 2009

LOS ANGELES – Michael Jackson was so distraught over persistent insomnia in recent months that he pleaded for a powerful sedative despite warnings it could be harmful, says a nutritionist who was working with the singer as he prepared his comeback bid.

Cherilyn Lee, a registered nurse whose specialty includes nutritional counseling, said Tuesday that she repeatedly rejected his demands for the drug, Diprivan, which is given intravenously.

But a frantic phone call she received from Jackson four days before his death made her fear that he somehow obtained Diprivan or another drug to induce sleep, Lee said.

While in Florida on June 21, Lee was contacted by a member of Jackson's staff.

"He called and was very frantic and said, `Michael needs to see you right away.' I said, 'What's wrong?' And I could hear Michael in the background ..., 'One side of my body is hot, it's hot, and one side of my body is cold. It's very cold,'" Lee said.

"I said, `Tell him he needs to go the hospital. I don't know what's going on, but he needs to go to the hospital ... right away."

"At that point I knew that somebody had given him something that hit the central nervous system," she said, adding, "He was in trouble Sunday and he was crying out."

Jackson did not go to the hospital. He died June 25 after suffering cardiac arrest, his family said. Autopsies have been conducted, but an official cause of death is not expected for several weeks.

"I don't know what happened there. The only thing I can say is he was adamant about this drug," Lee said.

Following Jackson's death, allegations emerged that the 50-year-old King of Pop had been consuming painkillers, sedatives and antidepressants. But Lee said she encountered a man tortured by sleep deprivation and one who expressed opposition to recreational drug use.

"He wasn't looking to get high or feel good and sedated from drugs," she said. "This was a person who was not on drugs. This was a person who was seeking help, desperately, to get some sleep, to get some rest."

Jackson was rehearsing hard for what would have been his big comeback — his "This Is It" tour, a series of performances that would have strained his aging dancer's body. Also, pain had been a part of his life since 1984, when his scalp was severely burned during a Pepsi commercial shoot.

Several months ago, Jackson had begun badgering Lee about Diprivan, also known as Propofol, Lee said. It is an intravenous anesthetic drug widely used in operating rooms to induce unconsciousness. It is generally given through an IV needle in the hand.

Patients given Propofol take less time to regain consciousness than those administered certain other drugs, and they report waking up more clear-headed and refreshed, said University of Chicago psychopharmacologist James Zacny.

It has also been implicated in drug abuse, with people using it to "chill out" or to commit suicide, Zacny said. Accidental deaths linked to abuse have been reported. The powerful drug has a very narrow therapeutic window, meaning it doesn't take doses much larger than the medically recommended amount to stop a person's breathing.

An overdose that stops breathing can result in a buildup of carbon dioxide, causing the heart to beat erratically and leading to cardiac arrest, said Dr. John Dombrowski, a member of the board of directors of the American Society of Anesthesiologists.

Because it is given intravenously and is not the kind of prescription drug typically available from pharmacists, abuse cases have involved anesthesiologists, nurses and other hospital staffers with easy access to the drug, Zacny said.

In recent months, Lee said, Jackson waved away her warnings about it.

"I had an IV and when it hit my vein, I was sleeping. That's what I want," Lee said Jackson told her.

"I said, 'Michael, the only problem with you taking this medication' — and I had a chill in my body and tears in my eyes three months ago — 'the only problem is you're going to take it and you're not going to wake up," she recalled.

According to Lee, Jackson said it had been given to him before but he didn't want to discuss the circumstances or identify the doctor involved.

The singer also drew his own distinctions when it came to drugs versus prescription medicine.

"He said, `I don't like drugs. I don't want any drugs. My doctor told me this is a safe medicine,'" Lee said. The next day, she said she brought a copy of the Physician's Desk Reference to show him the section on Diprivan.

"He said, 'No, my doctor said it's safe. It works quick and it's safe as long as somebody's here to monitor me and wake me up. It's going be OK,'" Lee said. She said he did not give the doctor's name.

Lee said at one point, she spent the night with Jackson to monitor him while he slept. She said she gave him herbal remedies and stayed in a corner chair in his vast bedroom.

After he settled in bed, Lee told Jackson to turn down the lights and music — he had classical music playing in the house. "He also had a computer on the bed because he loved Walt Disney," she said. "He was watching Donald Duck and it was ongoing. I said, `Maybe if we put on softer music,' and he said, `No, this is how I go to sleep.'"

Three and a half hours later, Jackson jumped up and looked at Lee, eyes wide open, according to Lee. "This is what happens to me," she quoted him as saying. "All I want is to be able to sleep. I want to be able to sleep eight hours. I know I'll feel better the next day."

Lee, 56, is licensed as a registered nurse and nurse practitioner in California, according to the state Board of Registered Nursing's Web site. She attended Los Angeles Southwest College and the Charles Drew University of Medicine and Sciences in Los Angeles.

Comedian Dick Gregory, who knows Lee and her work, said he believes Jackson's insomnia had its roots in the pop star's 2005 trial on child molestation charges. Jackson's health had deteriorated so much that his parents called Gregory, a natural foods proponent, for help.

Gregory said Jackson wasn't eating or drinking at the time, and after he was persuaded by Gregory to undergo testing, ended up hospitalized for severe dehydration.

But Jackson obviously was healthy enough to withstand the level of medical scrutiny needed to insure him for the upcoming high-stakes London concerts, Gregory said. "That you don't trick," he said of the exams.

Lee, who has also worked with Stevie Wonder, Marla Gibbs, Reynaldo Rey and other celebrities, said she was introduced to Jackson by the mother of one of his staff members. Jackson's three children had minor cold symptoms and their pediatrician was out of town.

Lee said she went to the house in January, the first of about 10 visits there through April, and treated the children with vitamins. Michael, intrigued, asked what else she did and took her up on her claim she could boost his energy.

After running blood tests, she devised protein shakes for him and gave him an intravenous vitamin and mineral mixture — known as a "Myers cocktail," after Dr. John Myers — which Lee said she uses routinely in her practice.

"It wasn't that he felt sick," she said. "He just wanted more energy."

Lee said she decided to speak out to protect Jackson's reputation from what she considers unfounded allegations of drug abuse or shortcomings as a parent.

"I think it's so wrong for people to say these things about him," she said. "He was a wonderful, loving father who wanted the best for his children."
____

AP Medical Writer Lindsey Tanner in Chicago and AP Television Writer David Bauder in New York contributed to this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090630/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_drugs
 
Fuck he was an idiot in some serious denial, "I don't like drugs, I don't want any drugs. My doctor told me this was a safe medicine." Just because something is safe and/or a medicine does not mean it is not a drug.

It seems to me that he was a HEAVILY dependant drug user who justified his use to himself through exaggerated symptoms (I am an insomniac but propofol for insomnia, give me a break!) and getting precribed strong ass drug cocktails that lets face it if he wasn't rich and famous probably would never have gotten.

In a way I think he was a victim, because it seems as though doctors were willing to apathetically feed him powerful drugs without ever correcting his misconception that because they were medicines it was fine.

It shits me off how famous people can get killer (no pun intended :p) drugs that normal people have to work hard as hell towards getting or purchase illegally.
 
It shits me off how famous people can get killer (no pun intended :p) drugs that normal people have to work hard as hell towards getting or purchase illegally.

life just isn't fair, hey? you should just get famous!
 
'No no, I don't do drugs, I take medicine, drugs are bad and my medicine is safe and good for me, you're being ignorant'

498mr_jefferson.gif
 
Use Hugs not Drugs to help you Sleep!

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(If someone could pm me how you make it so you have to click a button to display an image that would be cool haha)
 
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Propofol.... safe....
Propofol.... safe....

Y'see these two words don't come into contact with each other unless there's atleast 4 fullstops between them.
It shits me off how famous people can get killer... drugs that normal people have to work hard as hell towards getting or purchase illegally.
It is absolutely insane isn't it.
The world of celebrities is a weird one :|
 
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