Jehovah's Witnesses, and Drugs (Ask A JW here)

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

I missed the annual JW convention in Tucson (something like 40,000 attendees) a few weeks ago. I really wanted to go so I could pick up some more of their fantastic artwork. I'd love to see a book of their artwork!

 

[mariacallas]

I am 19, a JW, and CAN travel!!

You're a JW?

 

[jam uh weezy]

In general, i just find religion to be a crutch people use to make themselves feel better. Promises of a beautiful future, heaven, life everlasting, these things I dont see happening. But people want to hear good things. So they cling to the teachings. I think religion CAN have benefits, but I dont believe any one religion has it all right. And again I certainly can appreciate the people who DO care about it, because most dont. And I recognize it has its place in people's lives, I'd never try and dissuade them from it. But I think we need to move on as a civilization.

I'm starting to think this whole thread is some high quality trolling in effect.

 

[socko]

I love the artwork in JW publications.

Smug, hypocritical, sadistic, creepy, bizarre.... THat JW art is weird shit. OP needs to get out of that dopey religious cult, stop criticizing Catholics (as a follower of arguably the weirdest Christian offshoot cult ever he has no room to talk) and experiment with otehr religions (what are your thoughts on Judaism or Islam) , drop acid, or sometihng and think about life (your religion might not be true).

edit.. Good luck gto you an d I don't mean to be an asshole, but JW seems to me to be very dangerous. Well.. I'm off to look for some heroin - arguably far less harmful than being under the influence of organized religion

 

[delsymfan]

Hey socko no offense taken dude. I totally understand. I am pretty much anti- all religion though in general. Like I said, if it makes people happy then they should totally go for it. I support whatever people want to do and what makes them happy. I would love to find some acid too. But again, I think people who follow religion are good people in general but I just find that every religion has issues and problems with their structure, mine included. I speak from a neutral standing.

They are definitely not harmful though, and IMO safer than heroin .

That is a pretty old JW book you guys got pics of there. I've seen that page though, and yeah it looks extreme but its pretty much a straight enterpretation of Revelation.

The artwork nowadays is a little more positive. It shows more people in the happy paradise they talk about instead of showing the negative. Its like "you'd like to be here" instead of "you dont wanna be here"

If anybody wants anything just holler even if its just to look at pictures I'll send something out.

LITM I think was just summarizing what he's learned about me.. he is not a JW clearly by his previous statements.

 

[socko]

Delsymfan -- THanks for your resposne. I like your positive attitude and openness

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

You're a JW?

Most definately NOT! I like to end strong discussions and debates, with some light fun, so that it dissolves any grey clouds! Just a bit of fun, but I think he got it! I am none of the 3 (well, I do travel but it was just humorously thrown in-the occasion called for it and it fitted well with his comments)

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

LITM I think was just summarizing what he's learned about me.. he is not a JW clearly by his previous statements.

Correct!

Smart cookie, and I repeat, you are not like the usual JW that I have met! That is nice, that you have your own mind! Just a bit of fun for closure of the passionate discussion!
.....and learn to say SHE dude! I am a She-is it not obvious?

 

[rachamim]

Delsyn: On the "Prohibition Against Blood"...You are correct that the injuncion is based upon Axts (15:28 and 29) but just as much on Genesis 9:4.

Huge problem though...

In Genesis it is dealing G-D's in junction to Noach (Noah) on consumption of meat still in posession of blood, the first incremental move towards Kashrut (Kosher Living).

Acts simply shows the early Christians trying to reconcile their Judaic roots with the abundance os disparate non-Jewish converts to the faith.

James offers advice to early Church leaders on how to deal with a very specific issue that was plagueing the early Church, especially ar Antioch.

In the letter, it is responding to a query from Antioch concerning consumption of non-Kosher meat (by newly converted non-Jews), and how traditional Jews viewed it with revulsion (and perhaps violence).

James advises to try and not stir up any horents' nests with pedantic nonsense. If one must consume non-kosher meet do so in discretion, and do not let Jews find out because it will prejudice the Church in Jews' eyes, as well as reaping benefits for "idol woshipers" (. "Greco-Romans" in this case).

James ended up eventually losing overall influence because his aim to Judaise the new converts was rejected by the Paulian Sect(s).

Witnesses allow loved ones to die over ignorance of language and context and that simply horrifies me to no end.

I was thinking about the "Drugs Issue" though...What about nations where drugs are NOT illegal? What rationale could be utilised then?

If it is "Body as Temple," they are still wrong since we know factually that moderation and safe usage can have ansolutely no ill effects, etc.

 

[poopie]

i am echoing jam uh weezy's opinions on this thread.

so, in your first post, you tell us why it's not okay for those in your religion to use drugs. BUT, you use(d) drugs. then, you said that if legality wasn't an issue with the marijuana, then maybe it would be okay (morally). but in the 2nd rule, already, no "defilements of the flesh" were *ahem* kosher.

you're not allowed to hang out with those outside of your religion (and you're here on bluelight- essentially the bowels of hell) or to have an open mind (and you're here admitting you've smoked marijuana). you should also follow every word of your religion, or risk losing everything (and while you've said you disagree with some major pillars of your religion). no celebration of those vile pagan holidays (and yet you still give gifts during christmas time), btw, that analogy was terrible. any and all medical interventions are delaying the inevitable- so is wearing a seatbelt.

and yet, here you are- expressing dissent with your religion, disagreeing with what seem to pretty largely established aspects of this religion- and then in the same breath saying that you totally dig it and are a serious jehovah's witness.

it just seems to be a lot of picking and choosing peppered in with some deception on how you follow your religion. as soon as i'm done with this pulled pork sandwich, i'm going back to being a hassidic jew as soon as i'm done with this pork chop. sshhh!

it's just confusing to me. then, i think back to some unbalanced people i have known (including a late bluelighter) and it all makes sense.

 

[mariacallas]

I know Michael Jacksons mother is a devout JW (not sure about his father and siblings though.) Interesting.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081029071448AAYTMno

I just wonder how taxing this may be for his mom especially (who is a witness in good standing) -- ... I would expect the JWs community to actually pressure her to cut ties with her family and children..or is she just a special case? Just curious about your take/opinion on all of this dels.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

OP u said that there is a joke w/i JW kids that "if u r born a JW u stay a JW" and that if someone leaves and rebels hardcore there is pressure for them to come back. But as seen in the example of Pillthrill, she was DF for some not so serious things. But u weren't. Do u think they look differently at people that have their whole families in the religion as opposed to just single people with families most likely in other religions. I would think that they have some guidelines as to who they toss out and Pillthrill's crimes were less serious than yours and u got to stay twice. I have a feeling it's cuz ur parents are in the religion.

How did the elders find out about your actions with a fellow JW girl if only the two families knew?

Let's say the organization found out about ur drug use or whatever, found out something that most often leads to DF. Or u leave to live a non JW life. How can there be pressure for u to come back? Don't they just DF u and move on since u r a sinner like Pillthrill. I thought that if u do something bad they toss u out and there is not chance of coming back. Maybe things are different for those with families in the organization, then even if DF those people are sill looked up as possible JW in the future.

Reading Pillthrill's comments it must have been a pretty dramatic experience. It makes me believe that they used u as a scapegoat. There obviously wasn't any compassion towards u. U seem to have cared more about the religion at the time than the OP, yet the OP was given more chances than u (cuz of the JW family I believe). It doesn't seem to be a "religion" of compassion based on Pillthrill's experiences. They just wanted to kick u out to show the others what can happen if u don't follow them 100%. And since u were dispensable they didn't give a rat's ass about the new life u created for yourself in the organization. So Sad.

That's why atheism works for me. I have a hard time believing that god spoke to someone and yet they can't speak to me. People want to put themselves on the pedestal for some reason so they say "god spoke to me, I'm special now u gotta do what I say", like a little kid. If god existed in the ways religious people believe and had contact with some then god would have contact with me to. I have a hard time believing that some people are more special than me cuz people will cling to anything to claim more power than others. It's human nature so makes me very skeptical of those claiming religious superiority.

I don't need a religion to tell me to be a good person. It comes from w/i. Religion is an antediluvian way of life and seems to create more problems than it fixes today.

 

[rachamim]

MariaCallas: Jackson was too, for along while. He actually used to knock on doors. Hahaha, I can imagine how people freaked out over his sitting in their homes.

Last I heard, he was seriously considering converting to Islam. His brother Jermaine was in NOI (Black Supremacist faith in the US that uses Islamic images), but Michael had been spending alot of time in Dubai and was thinking along the lines of Sunna Islam.

 

[delsymfan]

Hey sorry I've mildly abandoned this thread. kinda forgot. Been busy in Peru. saw some more questions and wanted to answer them. Mainly for you ZYGGY.

As far as the crimes I committed versus Pillthrills, I dont know all the details. But they try to assess repentance. How do you feel about what you did, and are you planning on doing it again?

I was capable of convincing them in both situations that I was not going to do those things again. In addition, it was actually a separate group of people. The 2nd group knew nothing of the things I did involving the first. So to each group, I had only messed up once that they knew of.

Anybody who knows of a serious wrong HAS to report it to the elders, so thats how they find out.

I do understand your point about my situation vs. Pillthrills. I believe she probably was more serious about being a JW at that point. But I could win an oscar with my acting. And they can only look at whats on the surface, and I give them good things to look at. These people knew me for many years, and knew that I was very active in the congregations. I helped out behind the counters, mowed the lawns, led meetings for service and prayer. These things stand out where many youths my age dont do any of that stuff.

So those things likely weighed in their minds after finding out of my activities. Pillthrill perhaps lacked a long established track record which may have worked against her.

People are not perfect. They kept me in, and they kicked her out. They may have been wrong in both cases, but I got what I wanted.

But Im with you ZYGGY, Atheism is cool.

 

[Pillthrill]

If you are interested in my "situation". The story of my year in the organization is now in my blog here.

As for anything on this thread, I will not make it an issue and will kindly bow out.

 

[Backster]

I've been a child raised Jehovah's Witness for my whole life. They really arent as bad as they are made to seem. Very nice people. But of course the whole thing has some missing pieces, and I dont like having a human try to interpret them.

I was in a talky mood, and decided to share the JW policy on drugs. Feel free to ask about anything tho.

There are pretty much 3 rules circling it and why we cant do just about anything recreationally speaking.

First, They have a very flat rule that if it is illegal, you cant do it. Fair enough. So nothing scheduled. This rules out the vast majority of stuff. Probably not a bad rule to follow in many cases anyway.

Secondly they have a strict "no smoking" policy as per a scripture that claims we have to avoid "defilements of flesh." Also kinda fair, I cant say they are wrong in putting that rule down. So no cigs or MJ.

3rd is where they take a big leap. Knowing that there are tons of ways around the first two rules (Unscheds, Analogues, Vaporization, oral consumption, etc) They have gone to the point of essentially blocking all drug use.

The reason is as follows: This is a paraphrasing more or less, but it goes like this: Drugs open the mind and can allow wicked spirit forces to enter your mind and can make you more susceptible to their thinking.

What they seem to be trying to say is "Drugs will make you think for yourself and leave us"

There is a ton of discrepancy from one congregation to another however. A lot of things have never been officially determined, such as using marijuana (where legalized, rule 1) in a brownie (rule 2). Ive heard some say its ok and others would still punish you. Its a real mess.

Of course there is NO bible rule about doing drugs.

Well anyway, I was bored and decided to throw this up here.

Are you actually a baptized Jehovah's Witness that is currently active in the religion? It's one thing being "raised" by Jehovah's Witnesses, and it's another thing actually BEING a Jehovah's Witness (baptized in the religion). Just curious

 

[Backster]

But after all this bullshit, twisting of the Bible (which I don't believe to be the word of god anymore) I mean they have their OWN TRANSLATION of the Bible, the rules about EVERYTHING, who you can talk to, where you can go, what you can do, what you should do, no to celebrate holidays, blah blah blah

Yeah, it's another translation, simply for an easier-to-read version in the English language as it is today. It's still taken directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek writings. It's not their own "twist" on it, because they haven't changed anything from the original manuscripts.

 

[Damien]

The New World Translation is different than most Bible's I've read. Very subtle differences in text that make big differences in ideologies.

 

[delsymfan]

Yes backster I completely am in the religion. I have to be. You understand that If I chose to leave, I am considered expelled and nobody, family included, is supposed to talk to me. I cant have that. So I continue to perform whatever token service is needed to get by.

And I think the NWT of the bible has been given considerable praise by scholars outside of the JW's. In fact I recall that on Jeopardy they actually had the question "what translation of the bible is most accurate" and the answer was the NWT.

Its not always as fluid to read, as the words are very literally put, so a lot of times you have maybe 6 2-letter words right in a row and its not smooth to read. But it IS a very accurate translation.

And the gods name debate is rather retarded. Why wouldnt we want to know and use god's name. That was blatantly removed from the bible years ago, and NWT wanted to put that back.

 

[Damien]

In fact I recall that on Jeopardy they actually had the question "what translation of the bible is most accurate" and the answer was the NWT.

I think that's a myth. I think the New American Standard would give the NWT a run for it's money.