AmorRoark
Bluelight Crew
dels - Why did you not answer my hypothetical?
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Jehovah's Witnesses, and Drugs (Ask A JW here)
- Thread starter delsymfan
- Start date
AmorRoark
Bluelight Crew
I have never met a Mormon I didn't like. It's weird.
But yeah, I don't agree with their practices or beliefs but love their kindness and general upbeat attitude to the world (in general). Of course I haven't met a thousand mormons but I have noticed, and voiced in the past, that all the Mormons I have met have been particularly friendly and nice.
Pillthrill
Bluelighter
Well the JW certainly showed my no favors when I went before the panal of 3 elders and confessed and showed I was repentant. They said that they didn't think I would stop seeing the person I shouldn't be. (They had no idea what was in my head and heart, and that I would still very much in, and was making and effort to "turn around") and I was in shock when I was told I was disfellowshipped. Their went all my friends I had ever had in "the truth", people that I called "family", "grandparents", and literally "brothers and sisters". I was so angry, so crushed. But then I did my research. I read the books, and looked what at what they warn you against. Yeah because they are full of it.
So now I don't like the organization one bit. They "love bomb" people into "the truth" and then once your baptised and they have you. They don't give a fuck anymore. And if you aren't out "pioneering" or working full time miinstering door to door, you are often frowned on as, just not lliving up as a young person. There are so many things I was blind to before that now I see for what it is and it isn't pretty.
Heres a link, from what I skimmed over, looks like they covered their stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses
On a side note: People get JWs and Mormons confused all the time. I had a friend growing up that was Mormon. Never a pusher about it. Nice family, all that. Certainly nothing like JW.
They are just confused because they both do door to door. Young men morons are required to spend a certain amount of time early in their life doing that. For JW, you do it your whole life, men, women, and children and sometimes talken along as young as 5 or 6. You have meets (LOTS of meetings a week on top of this) to teach you how to do this.
Trying to get someone to accept a "WatchTower" or "Awake" magazine, pusblished by the "governing body" of JW who get their info straight from god. Trust me, you accept one. They will be back over and over and over, trying to get you to do a Bible study.
They often find their converts in those who are facing diffcult times in their lives, with promises of forgivness, love, and a new and better earth just around the corner....yeah, they said it was coming, and it didn't...so then lets just say it was "Christ's Invisible Return". LOL
I seriously have to laugh at this sometimes.
But yeah there is your main difference and my MAIN issue
with them.
Also, seriously, read "Crisis of conscience" by Franz, Raymond.
If you REALLY want to know THE REAL TRUTH. That was a HELL of an eyeopener.
"Former Governing Body member Raymond Franz claims the religion's emphasis on its "theocratic" organization is designed to exercise control over every aspect of the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses[210] and condition them to think it is wrong for them to question statements by the Watch Tower Society.[27] Watch Tower literature warns against the "dangers" and "infection" of "independent thinking", such as questioning the counsel it provides.[211] Franz claims that the Watch Tower Society's firm discouragement of members to read criticism of the organization[212][213] or scriptural material published by other religions[214][215] creates a form of mental isolation that has been cited as an element of mind control.[216] Constant urging to devote increasing amounts of time to door-to-door preaching has been described as coercive pressure.[217] Medical and legal commentators have also noted cases of Witness medical patients being coerced to obey the religion's ban on blood transfusions."
So now I don't like the organization one bit. They "love bomb" people into "the truth" and then once your baptised and they have you. They don't give a fuck anymore. And if you aren't out "pioneering" or working full time miinstering door to door, you are often frowned on as, just not lliving up as a young person. There are so many things I was blind to before that now I see for what it is and it isn't pretty.
Heres a link, from what I skimmed over, looks like they covered their stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses
On a side note: People get JWs and Mormons confused all the time. I had a friend growing up that was Mormon. Never a pusher about it. Nice family, all that. Certainly nothing like JW.
They are just confused because they both do door to door. Young men morons are required to spend a certain amount of time early in their life doing that. For JW, you do it your whole life, men, women, and children and sometimes talken along as young as 5 or 6. You have meets (LOTS of meetings a week on top of this) to teach you how to do this.
Trying to get someone to accept a "WatchTower" or "Awake" magazine, pusblished by the "governing body" of JW who get their info straight from god. Trust me, you accept one. They will be back over and over and over, trying to get you to do a Bible study.
They often find their converts in those who are facing diffcult times in their lives, with promises of forgivness, love, and a new and better earth just around the corner....yeah, they said it was coming, and it didn't...so then lets just say it was "Christ's Invisible Return". LOL
I seriously have to laugh at this sometimes.
But yeah there is your main difference and my MAIN issue
with them.
Also, seriously, read "Crisis of conscience" by Franz, Raymond.
If you REALLY want to know THE REAL TRUTH. That was a HELL of an eyeopener.
"Former Governing Body member Raymond Franz claims the religion's emphasis on its "theocratic" organization is designed to exercise control over every aspect of the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses[210] and condition them to think it is wrong for them to question statements by the Watch Tower Society.[27] Watch Tower literature warns against the "dangers" and "infection" of "independent thinking", such as questioning the counsel it provides.[211] Franz claims that the Watch Tower Society's firm discouragement of members to read criticism of the organization[212][213] or scriptural material published by other religions[214][215] creates a form of mental isolation that has been cited as an element of mind control.[216] Constant urging to devote increasing amounts of time to door-to-door preaching has been described as coercive pressure.[217] Medical and legal commentators have also noted cases of Witness medical patients being coerced to obey the religion's ban on blood transfusions."
NeuroDaemon
Bluelighter
That's true in my experience, but it's not something I hold against them. When I was a university student in France, they came once to my door, and having the curiosity to know them better, I let them in. We talked for about an hour, they were nice and respectful people, and we decided to see again next week. They lent me magazine (and later, books) to read.
We had a "once a week hourly meeting" for some time, 8 or 9 weeks if I remember correctly. I made it very clear from the first meeting that I would not join them, and was only interested because I wanted to discover different spiritual paths, and was interested to discover their own. They were ok with that, never pushed me to convert, and after two months during which I learned a lot about their views of the world and their faith (and my many incompatibilities with them :-D) I politely told them that I had no desire to meet anymore.
They knew that from the start of course (but they may still had hope all along
), and we parted ways peacefully. They never came back to harass me, or anything of the sort. They invited me to a prayer once or twice during those two months, but I can't complain about their proselytism.Neuro
LivingInTheMoment
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2009
- Messages
- 2,428
DELSYMFAN,
>>QUOTE>>LITM, now see you just brought up a completely different view here. [B]We are in fact allowed to defend ourselves. That is not something that is prohibited. And if a man on the street were to try and hurt me or my family you can sure as hell bet I'll take a stand against that.
<<<Yah, but after so much repression of those mechanisms and instincts, and brainwashing, and guilt that you all guys carry from your cult, can you really act at such time????? One thing to think you can and another-being able to act it out when necessary!!!All that guilt!!
(It was notable that you actually need their permission to do this!!)
QUOTE>>>However that is a big difference from going to war for your country's (wishes). I understand where you see the similarity, and I understand that if for instance the USA was pacifist you could easily have another country march in. I understand it doesnt work right now, but I still believe in it.
<<I guess you were never given a choice to think or believe otherwise-when you are brought up in that environment!!!!
<<<The physical act of killing someone might be a murder or an act of
self-defense, or even an act of heroism, as in war-depending upon the context and intention. Pretty much like that of a sexual act; may be an act of love, an act of rape or an act of mere private gratification-a physically similar "move" in one context might have a different significance and value from that in another.
It is all in the context, and we should be able to tell the difference and have choices as to what to do and when, and for what reason when it becomes necessary!!
In JW, one does not have choices or freedom to exercise them, for the cause that you believe in without other's influence-and at the time that is needed, when the circumstances arise!
[/U]It is Not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country!!!!!!!!!! But each to their own, I guess, just discussing!
>>QUOTE>>LITM, now see you just brought up a completely different view here. [B]We are in fact allowed to defend ourselves. That is not something that is prohibited. And if a man on the street were to try and hurt me or my family you can sure as hell bet I'll take a stand against that.
<<<Yah, but after so much repression of those mechanisms and instincts, and brainwashing, and guilt that you all guys carry from your cult, can you really act at such time????? One thing to think you can and another-being able to act it out when necessary!!!All that guilt!!
(It was notable that you actually need their permission to do this!!)
QUOTE>>>However that is a big difference from going to war for your country's (wishes). I understand where you see the similarity, and I understand that if for instance the USA was pacifist you could easily have another country march in. I understand it doesnt work right now, but I still believe in it.
<<I guess you were never given a choice to think or believe otherwise-when you are brought up in that environment!!!!
<<<The physical act of killing someone might be a murder or an act of
self-defense, or even an act of heroism, as in war-depending upon the context and intention. Pretty much like that of a sexual act; may be an act of love, an act of rape or an act of mere private gratification-a physically similar "move" in one context might have a different significance and value from that in another.
It is all in the context, and we should be able to tell the difference and have choices as to what to do and when, and for what reason when it becomes necessary!!
In JW, one does not have choices or freedom to exercise them, for the cause that you believe in without other's influence-and at the time that is needed, when the circumstances arise!
[/U]It is Not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country!!!!!!!!!! But each to their own, I guess, just discussing!
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memphiseve
Bluelighter
I dated a JW for 5 years.
Pillthrill
Bluelighter
How the HELL did that work?! They would have a FIT if it wasn't in secret OR they weren't baptised...that could mean that they could DF them. Only counsel them not to be with you...
I managed a secret relationship with a baptised JW. Didn't end well.
I managed a secret relationship with a baptised JW. Didn't end well.
Mariposa
Bluelight Crew
Delsym,
Have you gone out to evangelize door-to-door yet? This is the part of the JW and Mormon religious traditions I truly do not understand. We do not live in a safe or easy world, and even those of us who live in neighborhoods with fairly low rates of violent or property crimes are (imo rightfully) concerned about opening the door to a stranger.
Also, what do you think of Catholicism's take on the matter?
Have you gone out to evangelize door-to-door yet? This is the part of the JW and Mormon religious traditions I truly do not understand. We do not live in a safe or easy world, and even those of us who live in neighborhoods with fairly low rates of violent or property crimes are (imo rightfully) concerned about opening the door to a stranger.
Also, what do you think of Catholicism's take on the matter?
Pillthrill
Bluelighter
You say you are JW...have you be baptised at a convention? Just a ?
Ok sorry I been away for a while folks. Moving to peru today and this weekend has been hectic. I'm in fact in my connecting airport posting up for a couple hours.
Anyway Amor, please see post 31 where I did talk about your blood issue scenario.
Pillthrill, I am baptized and was at a circuit assembly in April of 03. At the time I really wasnt questioning things.
I have spent much time in service over the years door to door. Its simply the fact that in my family it would raise much hell if I didnt. I cant say its the worst thing in the world. People DO benefit from some aspects of the bible. Although I personally dont ENJOY the work all that much. Let me say though that I feel I have benefited from their teaching people how to talk to others effectively. I consider myself, and have been told I am, a good public speaker and I believe thats as a result of having to do some of these JW things.
I just try to find the benefit in everything I suppose.
LITM, I'm not brainwashed. Believe me. I feel NO guilt for anything I've ever done that was against the organizations rules. Never. And if a fight came to me, I'd end it quick. Count on it.
Back to you PT, Im sorry to hear that they didnt understand you. I had a judicial committee once, due to my actions with a fellow JW girl. I felt like I barely convinced them I was serious about being a JW. They were pretty cold in general. But I passed, got publicly reproved (which was bull because nobody knew about it but the two families involved).
That is a problem I have, the fact that only three of the body deal with your case and depending on who they are, you may find a completely different review.
Its raining like crazy outside... i'm sure my flight will have a lovely delay... ugh.
Catholicism, Pardon me, is pretty much garbage. To me there is no question that if the bible is in fact true and the word of god (not saying it is), then catholicism has done everything wrong. Taking peoples money left and right, endorsing war, and even the vow of celibacy just to name a few issues. None of these things are biblically based, simple as that. The teaching of hellfire makes no sense whatsoever. And telling families that if they pay more money to "god" they can get their family member out of purgatory is a sad sad crime.
So basically I dont really think they have much room to talk about other religions.
In general, i just find religion to be a crutch people use to make themselves feel better. Promises of a beautiful future, heaven, life everlasting, these things I dont see happening. But people want to hear good things. So they cling to the teachings. I think religion CAN have benefits, but I dont believe any one religion has it all right. And again I certainly can appreciate the people who DO care about it, because most dont. And I recognize it has its place in people's lives, I'd never try and dissuade them from it. But I think we need to move on as a civilization.
Anyway Amor, please see post 31 where I did talk about your blood issue scenario.
Pillthrill, I am baptized and was at a circuit assembly in April of 03. At the time I really wasnt questioning things.
I have spent much time in service over the years door to door. Its simply the fact that in my family it would raise much hell if I didnt. I cant say its the worst thing in the world. People DO benefit from some aspects of the bible. Although I personally dont ENJOY the work all that much. Let me say though that I feel I have benefited from their teaching people how to talk to others effectively. I consider myself, and have been told I am, a good public speaker and I believe thats as a result of having to do some of these JW things.
I just try to find the benefit in everything I suppose.
LITM, I'm not brainwashed. Believe me. I feel NO guilt for anything I've ever done that was against the organizations rules. Never. And if a fight came to me, I'd end it quick. Count on it.
Back to you PT, Im sorry to hear that they didnt understand you. I had a judicial committee once, due to my actions with a fellow JW girl. I felt like I barely convinced them I was serious about being a JW. They were pretty cold in general. But I passed, got publicly reproved (which was bull because nobody knew about it but the two families involved).
That is a problem I have, the fact that only three of the body deal with your case and depending on who they are, you may find a completely different review.
Its raining like crazy outside... i'm sure my flight will have a lovely delay... ugh.
Catholicism, Pardon me, is pretty much garbage. To me there is no question that if the bible is in fact true and the word of god (not saying it is), then catholicism has done everything wrong. Taking peoples money left and right, endorsing war, and even the vow of celibacy just to name a few issues. None of these things are biblically based, simple as that. The teaching of hellfire makes no sense whatsoever. And telling families that if they pay more money to "god" they can get their family member out of purgatory is a sad sad crime.
So basically I dont really think they have much room to talk about other religions.
In general, i just find religion to be a crutch people use to make themselves feel better. Promises of a beautiful future, heaven, life everlasting, these things I dont see happening. But people want to hear good things. So they cling to the teachings. I think religion CAN have benefits, but I dont believe any one religion has it all right. And again I certainly can appreciate the people who DO care about it, because most dont. And I recognize it has its place in people's lives, I'd never try and dissuade them from it. But I think we need to move on as a civilization.
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Damien
Bluelight Crew
The Bible does tell us that there is a time for war, that pastors should be paid and that it is better to be celibate if you can do so.
GoddessLSD-XTC
Bluelighter
I love the artwork in JW publications.
medical_meccanica
Bluelighter
^^^ That really reminds me of war propaganda images.
A friend of a friend was kicked out of his JW home for drinking coca cola, it was the last straw apparently!
Fucking yuck.
A friend of a friend was kicked out of his JW home for drinking coca cola, it was the last straw apparently!
Fucking yuck.
Pillthrill
Bluelighter
Yup, I know I have held and read that publication....eww.
I can recongnize that shit a mile away. And BURN it. So no one can be drawn into that evil bullshit!
I can recongnize that shit a mile away. And BURN it. So no one can be drawn into that evil bullshit!
mariacallas
Bluelight Crew
Oww that hurts, Im a Catholic
nah its okay you are of course entitled to your opinion my dear. I dunno, Ive never had problems with my religion, I'm not jaded, I'm not bitter, I was never forced to do anything against my wishes (uh..okay lets leave the all girl Catholic highschool years out of that hahaha) , the Bible to me is open to all sorts of interpretation but it does NOT govern my life at all... Im a paradox, a lot of people will probably tell me Im going to hell, but you know what, I never really cared for those kinds of people anyway. I would never even DREAM of saying that to somebody, anybody at all. We have the coolest Catholics where Im from, seriously. Aaannnd I am very much interested in other religions and find it fascinating to learn about them. And like I've said many times on this board, I would never ever ever force my beliefs on anybody...
Dunno just had to say my piece, haha...anyway peace
Carry on.LivingInTheMoment
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2009
- Messages
- 2,428
OK, you must be in Peru by now!
I started to feel almost convinced that you are a JW with a difference!!
I am 19, a JW, and CAN travel!!
I hope you can get on the Internet over there to tell us all about your new endevour!
GoddessLSD-XTC
Bluelighter
How did they find out about the "sins," Pillthrill, what were the sins?!?
Hey again all. Sorry once more for the delay but I've gotten settled in my new apartment and its great.
Anyway my little bit on catholicism was never ever meant to go after the PEOPLE who follow it. In fact I'd say most people who have a religious mind are nice people and I've talked to and met many catholics who are very nice. So please do not take those comments personally as I know many catholics are different and I am not trying to label you all.
However it is some of the teachings and the way the church operates in general that is my only real problem.
that comment about the JW getting kicked out of his home for drinking coca cola. Sad to say I believe it. There are very very few families like that, but they exist. I had a good friend who's mother never let him wear a name brand shirt because that is being "part of the world" which jesus said directly to be "no part of the world" And if his shirt even had a logo or anything on it she sharpie'd it out or something.
Anyway I got in touch with the local hall here so I'll probably be there sunday. Like I said, my father shows up next week and I need to look nice for him mainly.
Anyway my little bit on catholicism was never ever meant to go after the PEOPLE who follow it. In fact I'd say most people who have a religious mind are nice people and I've talked to and met many catholics who are very nice. So please do not take those comments personally as I know many catholics are different and I am not trying to label you all.
However it is some of the teachings and the way the church operates in general that is my only real problem.
that comment about the JW getting kicked out of his home for drinking coca cola. Sad to say I believe it. There are very very few families like that, but they exist. I had a good friend who's mother never let him wear a name brand shirt because that is being "part of the world" which jesus said directly to be "no part of the world" And if his shirt even had a logo or anything on it she sharpie'd it out or something.
Anyway I got in touch with the local hall here so I'll probably be there sunday. Like I said, my father shows up next week and I need to look nice for him mainly.
GoddessLSD-XTC
Bluelighter
Whatcha doin' in Peru? Is Ur family hiding out, preparing for the fall of Babylon?
Lol no. Im here for myself just to explore and search around. I had a lil bs thread about it in the OT forum a while back. Its a rad place
Anyway yeah were not freaky survivalists lol... Although they did have a part on the platform telling us to have "go-bags" for a disaster. It wasnt talking about end of the world stuff though, just like in case of tornados and stuff.
Anyway yeah were not freaky survivalists lol... Although they did have a part on the platform telling us to have "go-bags" for a disaster. It wasnt talking about end of the world stuff though, just like in case of tornados and stuff.