How toxic is Mephedrone?

[shoolameet]

so out of curiosity... which is worse for your serotonin levels; mephedrone or mdma? or equally as bad? i know mephedrone is more neurotoxic, but i am curious about just serotonin levels.

 

[vecktor]

so out of curiosity... which is worse for your serotonin levels; mephedrone or mdma? or equally as bad? i know mephedrone is more neurotoxic, but i am curious about just serotonin levels.

who knows?

mdma is a known creature, mephedrone is an unknown, but it seems likely that it will be as bad as methcathinone.

 

[Artificial Emotion]

methcathinone isn't that bad though, is it?

 

[Artificial Emotion]

the ocd tendencies tend to be found in those with low serotonin levels, and serotonin is important for control of dopamine based impulses towards rewards in the now so that we can behave in a way to acheive long term goals. serotonin is important for long term strategies, one of my friends used to say that anxiety and impulsivity are the same thing...???

Maybe they're related but I don't think they're the same thing. Impulsivity is a result of one's inability to control actions or urges, whereas anxiety is basically fear. For example, if you're anxious about money problems, you're fearing the worst case scenario - that you will become bankrupt and destitute for example.

 

[vecktor]

methcathinone isn't that bad though, is it?

Neurotoxic and pharmacologic studies on enantiomers of the N-methylated analog of cathinone (methcathinone): a new drug of abuse

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/279/2/1043

these studies evaluated neurotoxic and pharmacologic properties of the R(+) and S(-) enantiomers of methcathinone, a psychostimulant drug that has surfaced in the illicit drug market, primarily in the S(-) form. Neurotoxic potential toward brain dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) neurons was assessed by measuring DA and 5-HT axonal markers and by means of silver degeneration studies; pharmacologic effects were evaluated by measuring locomotor stimulation. Methcathinone produced dose-related neurotoxic and locomotor stimulant effects which were species- and enantiomer-dependent. In mice, although both enantiomers produced toxic effects on DA neurons, the R(+) enantiomer was more potent, and neither enantiomer produced long-term effects on 5-HT neurons. By contrast, in behavioral studies, both enantiomers increased mouse locomotor activity, but the S(-) enantiomer was more potent, which suggests that methcathinone's neurotoxic and locomotor stimulant effects may be separable. Additional studies were done with rats, because mice are often refractory to 5-HT neurotoxicity induced by amphetamines. In the rat, both enantiomers produced toxic effects on DA neurons, only S(-)-methcathinone produced toxic effects on 5-HT neurons, and both enantiomers produced comparable locomotor stimulant effects. Together, these results indicate that: 1) Methcathinone has the potential to damage DA and 5-HT neurons; 2) Methcathinone neurotoxicity is enantiomer and species dependent; 3) Methcathinone's neurotoxic and locomotor stimulant effects are dissociable in mice but not rats; and 4) N-methylation confers 5-HT toxic activity onto cathinone, the N-desmethyl derivative of methcathinone, which is known to lack 5-HT neurotoxic activity.

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/18/20/8417

Reduced Striatal Dopamine Transporter Density in Abstinent Methamphetamine and Methcathinone Users: Evidence from Positron Emission Tomography Studies with [11C]WIN-35,428

Methamphetamine and methcathinone are psychostimulant drugs with high potential for abuse. In animals, methamphetamine and related drugs are known to damage brain dopamine (DA) neurons, and this damage has recently been shown to be detectable in living nonhuman primates by means of positron emission tomography (PET) with [11C]WIN-35,428, a DA transporter (DAT) ligand. The present studies determined whether living humans with a history of methamphetamine or methcathinone abuse showed evidence of lasting decrements in brain DAT density. PET studies were performed in 10 control subjects, six abstinent methamphetamine users, four abstinent methcathinone users, and three patients with Parkinson's disease (PD). On average, subjects had abstained from amphetamine use for ~3 years. Before PET studies, all subjects underwent urine and blood toxicology screens to rule out recent drug use. Compared with controls, abstinent methamphetamine and methcathinone users had significant decreases in DAT density in the caudate nucleus (23 and 24%, respectively) and putamen (25 and 16%, respectively). Larger decreases in DAT density were evident in patients with PD (47 and 68% in caudate and putamen, respectively). Neither methamphetamine nor methcathinone users showed clinical signs of parkinsonism. Persistent reductions of DAT density in methamphetamine and methcathinone users are suggestive of loss of DAT or loss of DA terminals and raise the possibility that as these individuals age, they may be at increased risk for the development of parkinsonism or neuropsychiatric conditions in which brain DA neurons have been implicated.

^ possibly the above study is flawed because of the manganese present in illicit methcathinone

but I would say methcathinone is probably as bad as methamphetamine.

 

[ebola?]

but I would say methcathinone is probably as bad as methamphetamine.

Wow.
Would you say that this is true on a per-milligram basis or at doses that yield 'equivalent' strengths of behavioral effects?

 

[vecktor]

equivalent strengths, as the methcathinone dose is usually larger.

there are a number of Russian papers which I cannot access, dealing with the pathology of long term methcathinone use. however when looking at any analysis of illicit methcathinone damage one must bear in mind that a lot of methcathinone contains significant amounts of manganese due to poor synthesis, which is neurotoxic. fortunately this contaminant is probably not an issue with the 4-methylmethcathinone as this is made a different way.

 

[pofacedhoe]

Maybe they're related but I don't think they're the same thing. Impulsivity is a result of one's inability to control actions or urges, whereas anxiety is basically fear. For example, if you're anxious about money problems, you're fearing the worst case scenario - that you will become bankrupt and destitute for example.

the impulsive urges come just after the sensation of fear and seem to be triggered by them i.e. i think i'm going bankrupt, then fear , then urge to gamble (which accutally will make me bankrupt). in this way the anxiety triggers the impulse. they seem so closely linked that distinguishing them is very difficult (in terms of feelings within yourself). in this way fear causes the behaviour (with the negative points) that leads to the situation one was afraid of...

the circle of fear

this friend also has what i would guess is bipolar (dare not mention her sanity to her). she said that after using mephedrone her ability to control her temper was much less.

i think the biggest problem with mephedrone is that when it wears off you feel great but it becomes ridiculously easy to get in a rage about nothing

 

[immad]

Neurotoxic and pharmacologic studies on enantiomers of the N-methylated analog of cathinone (methcathinone): a new drug of abuse

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/279/2/1043


http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/18/20/8417

Reduced Striatal Dopamine Transporter Density in Abstinent Methamphetamine and Methcathinone Users: Evidence from Positron Emission Tomography Studies with [11C]WIN-35,428


^ possibly the above study is flawed because of the manganese present in illicit methcathinone

but I would say methcathinone is probably as bad as methamphetamine.

How'ld this be for ethcathinone? Is KNmO4 also used to oxidate the etyl version of ephedrine or is a different synth usually used?

 

[vecktor]

How'ld this be for ethcathinone? Is KNmO4 also used to oxidate the etyl version of ephedrine or is a different synth usually used?

it is unlikely that KMnO4 is used in ethcathinone synthesis

 

[PetersKeys]

the risk calculation is really easy.

what are the downside risks? --- we don't know

what are the worst possible downside risks, and of course we don't know if these are indeed the worst possible risks? --- death, heart valve fibrosis, brain damage, organ damage, clotting problems, death

what is the upside? getting somewhat high.

do you feel lucky???????

this rat will pass thankyou.

I agree. stick with meth or coke if you want a stim high. or modafinil if you wanna go the lesser route. clotting, valve fibrosis dosen't sound to great for a high thats probably not even worth it.

 

[kroozer_*]

Mephedrone is not fully tested with the population yet. Sorry to hear your loss. Mabey people will now take a second thought about ingesting something that they have little experience with. Again, sorry for your loss. Hopefully it will open an eye or two as far as harm reduction goes.

I lost a friend due to a morphine overdose. PM me if you feel like it. Nothing worse than losing a good friend because of drugs

 

[Captain.Heroin]

if you have another explaination for this then spit it as the maoi one seems to make sense to me given this weird tendency

It's called reverse tolerance. With some drugs, like DXM, you won't need as much the next day.

 

[pofacedhoe]

It's called reverse tolerance. With some drugs, like DXM, you won't need as much the next day.

interesting, do you think this drug may have an effect upon the glutamate system at all? one of my friends who was addicted to ketamine for a couple of years said it reminded her of k, i had also though this...

 

[ebola?]

In my experience, a single oral dose of mephedrone of 200 mg has one fuck of an adrenal push. I'm staying the hell away henceforth.

ebola

 

[shoolameet]

so i finally got to try this stuff, i did 1 250mg oral dose and it didnt feel toxic at all, but i can see why it would feel that way at higher doses.
the fact that it was over so quick made it hard to think of as toxic i guess.

 

[vecktor]

so i finally got to try this stuff, i did 1 250mg oral dose and it didnt feel toxic at all, but i can see why it would feel that way at higher doses.
the fact that it was over so quick made it hard to think of as toxic i guess.

well thats alright then, just so long as it didn't feel toxic to you, then that is evidence that it isn't toxic 8)

please restrict yourself to posting advanced stuff in advanced drug discussion


post trip reports in......trip reports.

 

[pofacedhoe]

so i finally got to try this stuff, i did 1 250mg oral dose and it didnt feel toxic at all, but i can see why it would feel that way at higher doses.
the fact that it was over so quick made it hard to think of as toxic i guess.

it might feel safe (because it may numb you to your sensations-partly due to something that lowers its safety) but people have experienced some rather unussual and sometimes very scary side effects.

in particular avoid mixing this drug with cannabis or any of the jwh series. i have found that side effects increase dramatically when cannabis is combined with mephedrone.

 

[shoolameet]

well thats alright then, just so long as it didn't feel toxic to you, then that is evidence that it isn't toxic 8)

please restrict yourself to posting advanced stuff in advanced drug discussion


post trip reports in......trip reports.

I didn't say that just because it didn't feel toxic doesn't mean it isn't so please don't comment on what I wrote unless you read it properly.
I was just confirming that this drug is can be much more fun when used in moderation and low doses.

also, does anyone have any idea what mephedrone's effect is on seizure threshold?
(i don't have seizures, i am just curious.)

 

[pofacedhoe]

I didn't say that just because it didn't feel toxic doesn't mean it isn't so please don't comment on what I wrote unless you read it properly.
I was just confirming that this drug is can be much more fun when used in moderation and low doses.

also, does anyone have any idea what mephedrone's effect is on seizure threshold?
(i don't have seizures, i am just curious.)

i see what your saying, you meant it would be easy for people to assume it was not that dangerous which is the way many people have misunderstood this drug.

due to classical conditioning people look for a quick effect after an event to determine if it causes it. if the effect is delayed they may not be able to associate the effect with the cause.