Heisenberg
Ex-Bluelighter
It is due to this thread apparently. Too much talk about it which would lead to it being banned so he pulled the plug
Electric Eel is no more.
Electric Eel is no more.
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AADD Moderators: Tronica
E*lectric Eels & related products
- Thread starter dannyburling
- Start date
Crankinit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2007
- Messages
- 6,175
Am I the only one who actually feels safer taking a street pill than any of these so called legal highs? At least with a street pill you know there's a decent shot of it being MDMA (or if not, then meth/K/bzp/caffeine), all of which we have a reasonable idea of the effects of. These pills could literally be absolutely anything. Hell even if it is 4mmc, we have no clue on the long term side effects of it. At least MDMA has two decades of literature and scientific research behind it.
I just don't see the point, especially considering most of it would appear to be stuff that falls under various analogue laws anyway. Unless you're really hurting for cash or literally cannot find a source for MDMA (is that even possible?), it just seems like you're actually better off with the illegal stuff.
I just don't see the point, especially considering most of it would appear to be stuff that falls under various analogue laws anyway. Unless you're really hurting for cash or literally cannot find a source for MDMA (is that even possible?), it just seems like you're actually better off with the illegal stuff.
simc
Greenlighter
^ aye, there is a lot more research that has gone in to all of the cutters + the MDxx in any illegal pills compared to damn research chems lol.. Mind you, i would enjoying trying some of the 2c-x series 
Crankinit
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2007
- Messages
- 6,175
At least if you order a specific chem like one of the 2c*'s you can make a reasonable assumption that you're getting that chem, and there are various reports on effects/doseage etc.
With pills like these, there's no fucking way of knowing what you're consuming, or even if you're consuming the same thing every time. And it will only get worse as they crack down on the latest wave of pills with cathinones and the makers are forced to resort to an even more obscure chemical to try and reach the same effect.
With pills like these, there's no fucking way of knowing what you're consuming, or even if you're consuming the same thing every time. And it will only get worse as they crack down on the latest wave of pills with cathinones and the makers are forced to resort to an even more obscure chemical to try and reach the same effect.
Heisenberg
Ex-Bluelighter
There are more reports on pills containing unknown substances than ever before in history. People are downing a number of cheap pills throeing up and getting headaches with no buzz. Random pick of OTC meds now i think
Heisenberg
Ex-Bluelighter
An ion scanner is a wise investment if you want to know whats in a street pill.
We all know mdxx or intermediates fool testers and you can have anything else thrown in there.
We all know mdxx or intermediates fool testers and you can have anything else thrown in there.
MrIbis
Bluelighter
yeah, well i informed Mr Blonde to close this thread as i was told by the dude at TAV that it was gonna cause a pull on the eel.
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Hand held IMS only detect the programed compounds. Additional compounds can be added to the library, but unless online updates are available pure samples would be required.
Larger scanners such as Waters Maldi systems are very expensive, and cheaper models or those using older DESI technology often suffer with ionisation- separation problems.
The furutre will see this technology further miniaturized as the current handheld mas spec devices are incorporated, but such devices will no- doubt also have a fat price tag.
Check out the Pittcon expo for new developments in this field
If his product is that "fragile" let him do so....
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
I disagree, it's worth a try. They wouldn't sell it if one time use killed you.
And sure we know the long term effects of MDMA. We also know it varies greatly. I could take 2000 pills and be fine in 20 years, you could take 5 and in 20 years be severely depressed.
We have a general idea but really only time is going to show us the damage we have caused to our bodies and brains.
And you may be lucky to have a good MDMA connection and it might stay that way, but by the sounds of it MDMA is getting rarer and rarer on the eastern states and that will soon start spreading west.
(Noticed a lot more duds in Adelaide recently, here come the piperazines..)
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Until the composition of the products is known and research is forthcoming on the pharmacology of the ingredients, then it's impossible to draw long term comparisons between other drugs or even possible problems arising from single use.
However, there is some merit in what Crankinit says. We now have many people who have taken MDMA for over 20 years, and much research has been done on this compound. Whether it's completly conclusive or not, it's still allows a more informed choice.
I won't bother going into the legality issues other than to say that without revealing the contents, customers are possibly being mislead into believing the products contain only legal substances when in fact they may not, so my message to vendors is reveal or be revealed!
However, there is some merit in what Crankinit says. We now have many people who have taken MDMA for over 20 years, and much research has been done on this compound. Whether it's completly conclusive or not, it's still allows a more informed choice.
I won't bother going into the legality issues other than to say that without revealing the contents, customers are possibly being mislead into believing the products contain only legal substances when in fact they may not, so my message to vendors is reveal or be revealed!
litterally cannot find a source of MDMA!!! it is possible, and it nearly the most of SE QLD at the present, i admit this is only a very recent development (last month/two months), but this drought it SE QLD is forcing me to look into RC for a good high similar to MDMA. I admit this is a recent development, but it is possible. Also i must admit I don't have all the connections, but i'm dry, and alot of ppl in brisbane are.. so looks liked if want to get the MDMA high, which i Do! RC's might be the way to go.
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Heisenberg
Ex-Bluelighter
You might like 2C-N or 2C-T
2CT2 also at lower doses.
All have MDMA like qualities without tripping too hard if dosed wisely.
How you would get them, beats me
2CT2 also at lower doses.
All have MDMA like qualities without tripping too hard if dosed wisely.
How you would get them, beats me
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Heisenberg
Ex-Bluelighter
well the stuff is gone, after trying it it didn't seem like dorons products, so the fuss is over
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
There's one big difference. With those products you got to hear what the contents were once they were identified and the medical survey completed. However, with current 'legal' products now being regularly discovered in all states, particularly at festivals, a lot of eyes are turning towards these and the whole OTC market.
Take this quote from a recent thread
I can say for sure that monitoring is not just limited to NSW. So, the race to identify such OTC products has already started and your HR dedicated BLers are no where near the starting line this time. That means this time we are unlikely to have any forewarnings as was the case with the Neorg products.....and that brings about an all important question related to Maddyboy's hmmmmmmmm... statement.
Which situation would you prefer? - To be given early and adequate warnings about the contents and legal status through this board, so that you can then make an informed choice on whether or not to make further purchases?
Or, instead, hear nothing until after your transaction details have been recorded and you get that feared knock on the door. That is; no prior warnings, no chance to reconsider, no chance to re-evaluate the risks
I'll also restate that while most BLers who've purchased these products already suspect the contents may be quasi legal at best, others that don't frequent these boards may not have any such idea. So while some of you remain selfish enough to only see your supply line as being important, others of us see a much bigger picture, one that is reinforced with every intervention involving OTC products for which the casualty had little or no idea of what they were taking.
Get it out in the open....If anyone thinks it's unfair to restrict or ban these products altogether, then stand up and do something about it. I'll even give you the mic and soap box. But don't expect those of us working to prevent catastrophe from drug taking to bend our principles just to protect your precious sources.
To windup, I believe the TGA will eventually become involved in regulating these products, meaning all such vendors could be seriously disadvantaged if they don't act now. There are many such retail outlets in Australia. Why isn't someone from this industry making some noise? After all, they have the most to lose in a financial sense. So then, let's see a more proactive stance. Let's see them offer ways of evaluating and regulating, and most of all, let's see some plan to protect the wellbeing of their customers. Staying under the radar is not going to be an option in the future, so now's the time to stimulate debate.
This is the situation I prefer, So I can make that informed choice. Not having the vendor named and shamed here and directly taking that choice away, as has now happened again.
Harm reduction is good, policing the industry from here is bad.
If we stick to the guidelines everyone wins in my opinion.
# DO NOT post, ask for or discuss sources for ANY substance; this includes substances that are pseudo-legal, semi-legal, "neo-legal" or whatever. Bluelight is not here to help you get drugs.
# On that point; with "legal" highs, do not discuss payment, delivery or packaging relating to vendors, this is not the place to discuss these topics.
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phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
I understand what you're saying but I have to respond by reminding Half the picture is still half the picture.
I'll also add that without identifying these vendors or at least their products, it openly encourages others to follow suit i.e. to market products with false advertising or misleading information. I believe I've addressed this in my earlier posts.
If suppliers want to be sneaky, it's usually because they have to be. The argument of not revealing because of commercial competition or because their products might be banned holds no water in relation to Harm Reduction where providing accurate information so as to make an informed choice is fundemental. If vendors genuinly care for their customers, they will inform them of the contents and allow those curious to research what is known about the substances, both in a legal and health sense. If that's seen as self destructive, then let these people stand up and argue for their industry.
No one is talking of policing the industry from here. If it happens because noise is made about these drugs, then that's a risk I and others are willing to take. As said, the legal highs industry is now a focus of LE. That didn't result because of things occuring on this or similar forums, it happened because of the increasing popularity of these products and the numbers of people being found in possession of them and probably also to some degree from the medical reports of paramedics and hospitals.
Well, unless we are to ban talking about them altogether then I would suggest following the guidelines as they currently stand will not make one iota of a difference as to wether or not authorities move to ban them. If mentioning a vendor is considered bad, then merely mentioning the product is just as bad, for a simple google search will usually reveal all. I rarely get informed of a site selling this product or that, yet I've found everything I've looked for. It's that simple
I'll also add that without identifying these vendors or at least their products, it openly encourages others to follow suit i.e. to market products with false advertising or misleading information. I believe I've addressed this in my earlier posts.
If suppliers want to be sneaky, it's usually because they have to be. The argument of not revealing because of commercial competition or because their products might be banned holds no water in relation to Harm Reduction where providing accurate information so as to make an informed choice is fundemental. If vendors genuinly care for their customers, they will inform them of the contents and allow those curious to research what is known about the substances, both in a legal and health sense. If that's seen as self destructive, then let these people stand up and argue for their industry.
No one is talking of policing the industry from here. If it happens because noise is made about these drugs, then that's a risk I and others are willing to take. As said, the legal highs industry is now a focus of LE. That didn't result because of things occuring on this or similar forums, it happened because of the increasing popularity of these products and the numbers of people being found in possession of them and probably also to some degree from the medical reports of paramedics and hospitals.
Well, unless we are to ban talking about them altogether then I would suggest following the guidelines as they currently stand will not make one iota of a difference as to wether or not authorities move to ban them. If mentioning a vendor is considered bad, then merely mentioning the product is just as bad, for a simple google search will usually reveal all. I rarely get informed of a site selling this product or that, yet I've found everything I've looked for. It's that simple
MrIbis
Bluelighter
^ p_d: the fact of the matter is vendors aren't there to care for customers - they're there to make money - anything that puts weight on that idea is a thorn in the business perspective.
drugs are money, legal drugs are money, quasi-legal drugs are money - time is money.
And the longer a vendor can surf on glass-fragile ideas the better it is for that vendor.
That is not to say that the HR view is incorrect, but it holds no grounds onto a solid fundamental business plan, unless the person running such plan firmly believes in user safety over profit - and with any drug dealing business, i think user safety is at a minimum.
I think the HR focus we need to have is providing statisical evidence for those that WANT to know and make an informed choice, and to hell with those that don't - because to them ignorance is bliss, and no matter what we want to preach they will not care.
The avoidable deaths that we rave about were only as avoidable as the people willing to listen to the real information put before them. The people dying from chemical allergies and other semi-avoidable reactions generally have no idea what they're in for before they eat x tablet - and could care less - and the only things we can do to stop them is by;
a) testing the products and providing information (now outlawed in clubs etc)
b) using the media to our advantage and stopping major police sweepings at major public gatherings in which drug taking is a given
c) telling those who want to know the 'good news' about our lord and saviour - harm reduction.
drugs are money, legal drugs are money, quasi-legal drugs are money - time is money.
And the longer a vendor can surf on glass-fragile ideas the better it is for that vendor.
That is not to say that the HR view is incorrect, but it holds no grounds onto a solid fundamental business plan, unless the person running such plan firmly believes in user safety over profit - and with any drug dealing business, i think user safety is at a minimum.
I think the HR focus we need to have is providing statisical evidence for those that WANT to know and make an informed choice, and to hell with those that don't - because to them ignorance is bliss, and no matter what we want to preach they will not care.
The avoidable deaths that we rave about were only as avoidable as the people willing to listen to the real information put before them. The people dying from chemical allergies and other semi-avoidable reactions generally have no idea what they're in for before they eat x tablet - and could care less - and the only things we can do to stop them is by;
a) testing the products and providing information (now outlawed in clubs etc)
b) using the media to our advantage and stopping major police sweepings at major public gatherings in which drug taking is a given
c) telling those who want to know the 'good news' about our lord and saviour - harm reduction.