Input please

Malium

Malium

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
28
Location
So Cal
I'm considering starting a 8-10 week cycle of 2-250 mg/wk. I will (of course) be using ancillaries and PCT. I will most likely stop after 1-2 cycles of this.

Basics:
27 male
5'11"
180 lbs/81.5 kg
Haven't tested in awhile, so I'd guess 12-14% body fat. Aiming for ~8%.
Lift every other day, cardio on off days.
Strive for 3-3500 cal/day over 6 meals, but often fall short. ~200-250g protein daily (always hit the protein mark).
I have no AAS experience.

I'm aiming to increase muscle bulk more quickly than I have been. I am NOT at my perfect physical condition without using AAS, but I am considering it regardless.

I'd like recommendations on specific types of injectables, ancillaries and PCTs for a noob.

Many thanks! %)
 
When you say you lift every other day, what do those days consist of? Macros besides protein? How long have you been lifting for? What is your plan for pct?
 
Day 1 - Chest/back/abs
Day 3 - Shoulders/arms/abs
Day 5 - Legs/back/abs
Workouts average 1-1.5 hours to exhaustion with minimal breaks
Repeat

I've been sticking around 50% protein/40% carbs/10% fat daily, with some fluctuation to the protein/carb intake.

I started serious workouts around Nov 07, slowed down a lot around June 08 because of a shoulder injury, and have been at it again for the last 4 months (though my shoulder still gives me trouble... doctors appt already scheduled).

For PCTs, my understanding is I'll need Clomid and Pregnyl, and that's it? Then I'll also need Femara and Nolvadex, or something similar? I'm just going off the "roid noobs" post. I don't know what would be better or worse for beginners, brands, etc. It's important to me that I minimize the side effects as much as possible.

I'm not hellbent on taking them, but I'm giving very serious consideration and want to do it right should I decide to take this path. I give it at least a 50/50 chance at this point and will probably decide within the next week. I have a few personal sources I can possibly go to for information as well, but I'd prefer to get information from here.
 
Waaay to much protien dude. Your body can absorb only about 30grams a meal. There should not be a need for more than 100grams/day. I bet you poop a lot.:!
 
PottedMeat said:
Waaay to much protien dude. Your body can absorb only about 30grams a meal. There should not be a need for more than 100grams/day. I bet you poop a lot.:!
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I beg to differ. If anything he needs more protein. Here is a protein calculator you can use...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/calpro.htm

1-1.5g per pound of body weight is widely regarded as the standard for adding muscle mass. 1.5-2g if you're really going all out.

/V
 
I've been trying to up the protein to hit >300, just can't always fit all that food in. Working on that part through bigger meals.
 
Malium said:
I've been trying to up the protein to hit >300, just can't always fit all that food in. Working on that part through bigger meals.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 300g of protein through whole food is a lot, that's why I supplement with whey and egg protein. Half of my protein comes from supps.
 
Those 42 oz liquid protein shots really help. 2.9oz = 42g of protein. That's 2 gulps.

I use them when I travel, expensive...but well worth the convenience. 4 gulps gives ya 84grams of protein. Not bad.
 
Anyone actually gonna give him cycle advice? You say 8-10 weeks I think you'd be better going for 12 or 14 but its up to you...

weeks 1-10: 250mg of testosterone enth or cyp. (once or twice a week if you have the cash).
Weeks 1-12: Ancilliaries- you just want to be taking the norm multi-vit, fish oils, creatine. You could add Proviron if you were worried about estrogen (if you start gaining fat/water) or finasteride if your worried about DHT (baldness).

weeks 1-12: 250mcg HCG (pregnyl) shot once a week

weeks 13-17: PCT of Clomid or Nolvadex. Either is fine.

You could also add Winstrol in there if you were desperate to lose the fat, dbol if you were looking to add weight. With either you'd then want to add liver support supps such as milk thistle or liv-52.

If you keep nolvadex or ferma(or another aromatase inhibitor) on hand then if there are any estrogen related problems you can rid yourself of estrogen completly very quickly.
 
Thank you p-mo, that's exactly what I was looking for. I thought 8-10 was a normal cycle, so I don't mind 12-14.

Am I totally out of line thinking that I will make some significant gains during this period and be able to keep most of it if I never use AAS again? I will continue my normal workouts, and like I said I may do 1 more cycle beyond this but I highly doubt any more than that.

I haven't had too much trouble with the fat (have actually been dropping weight fast recently, another reason I've been trying to stuff face during all 6-7 meals now), but if for whatever reason I'm not close to ~8% in another 6-8 weeks I'd consider Winstrol for a period.

As for protein supplements, just 2 muscle milk shakes a day (sometimes for breakfast, always one after a workout which is usually a bit before sleep) for 64g of protein. Just off the top of my head, I think I've been hitting ~300 since posting (2 days) from eating more meat every meal...but I've been utterly satiated nearly 100% of the day.
 
this post could be a sticky lol.. he actually came in with all his details and shit and actually looked ready to do aas unlike 99% of people who ask about it. goodjob dude. =P
 
Malium said:
Thank you p-mo, that's exactly what I was looking for. I thought 8-10 was a normal cycle, so I don't mind 12-14.

Am I totally out of line thinking that I will make some significant gains during this period and be able to keep most of it if I never use AAS again? I will continue my normal workouts, and like I said I may do 1 more cycle beyond this but I highly doubt any more than that.

I haven't had too much trouble with the fat (have actually been dropping weight fast recently, another reason I've been trying to stuff face during all 6-7 meals now), but if for whatever reason I'm not close to ~8% in another 6-8 weeks I'd consider Winstrol for a period.

As for protein supplements, just 2 muscle milk shakes a day (sometimes for breakfast, always one after a workout which is usually a bit before sleep) for 64g of protein. Just off the top of my head, I think I've been hitting ~300 since posting (2 days) from eating more meat every meal...but I've been utterly satiated nearly 100% of the day.
Click to expand...

Revised cycle then:

Weeks 1-14: Test Enanth/Cyp 250mg/500mg EW (I'd suggest 250mg on Monday and Thursday)

Weeks 1-4: Winstrol 50mg ED

Weeks 1-16: HCG shot 500 EW

Weeks 10-14: Winstrol 50mg ED

Weeks 16-20: PCT of nolva or clomid

Weeks 1-20: Ancilliaries of Milk Thistle, Liv-52, Creatine, Fish oil, etc

Yeah you COULD run 1-2 cycles and keep the gains but just like Pringles- once you pop you just can't stop... You'll love the gains and the feel and look of being on... ;)
 
aanallein said:
this post could be a sticky lol.. he actually came in with all his details and shit and actually looked ready to do aas unlike 99% of people who ask about it. goodjob dude. =P
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Gracias! I've been a Bluelighter for awhile though (Ecstasy mainly).


Thanks for the revised cycle as well. I needed it planned out like that.

I may like the gains and want to continue, but as it stands I feel like I'll be satisfied with what I have planned...but who knows! If I feel it's safe enough I may reconsider, but doubt it. Of course 8 years ago I also said I'd never do Ecstasy.
 
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If this is your first cycle I would highly advise against using too many ancillaries on cycle. I mean, aside from the fact that clomid makes you feel like straight diaper-shit, during a cycle it isn't really that necessary to supplement any aromatase inhibitor if you are already a lean person since 500mg of test in a healthy male isn't going to cause that much to aromatize. All of my testosterone only cycles have included no AI. A PCT should have an AI and a SERM and HCG for maximum effectiveness.

I've found my gains to be much better using 500mg of test a week and no AI. HCG is the shit too... seriously, it makes PCT very smooth. I did a cycle with deca and no HCG once and my nuts were the size of raisins, and it took quite some time for them to regain their old volume.

10-12 Weeks (I'd stack 1gram test for week 1 if you're using enanthate)

250mg 2x a week

Some ppl say higher HCG but it can actually cause desensitization of the leydig cells so lower at first may be better. I found 250iu twice a week to be sufficient with just test, the 19nors suppress you MUCH more though.

There is no need for all that liver supplement bullshit on just testosterone, only the alkylated orals require a first pass through the liver and those are the ones that are hepatotoxic. (halotestin/dbol/ etc..)

Your DNA will be in protein transcription/translation overdrive, that's the basis of anabolic steroids. Just keep your body pumped full of whole foods... the good stuff, but you need it all. Fats, complex carbs, and all the amino acids and proteins are very important as well as minerals and vitamins. You should really have strong joints and ligaments too, if you don't have a strong base the vast muscular gains can outgrow your tendons and it's easy to injure.
 
There's a lot of debate about the amount of protein you really need. Last time I looked at real outcome studies on the matter, there was very little distinction between the group given a 2g/kilogram diet and groups given considerably less, such as 1.5g/kilogram. But I haven't looked in a while.

Nothing to add to the advice given above, but for my money, you're not really in optimal shape at this point and you shouldn't be using any of the supplements you're asking about, especially given an existing shoulder injury that can be aggravated (it can, yes?) via weightlifting.

Of course, even if you were in optimal shape I'd advise you against the use of the supplements, but I suspect my philosophy and view on this matter is at odds with a fair number of others who post on here. :)
 
p-mo said:
Yeah you COULD run 1-2 cycles and keep the gains but just like Pringles- once you pop you just can't stop... You'll love the gains and the feel and look of being on... ;)
Click to expand...
yep

for PCT, this is what is working with me:

first week after last shot (I used prop so you would want to delay your HCG a little longer if you were on test E) - HCG 250IU mon/wed/fri (also run HCG during cycle 2x week 250IU each shot) and 25mg aromasin ED

then for 2 weeks - 40mg nolva/ED (split two doses) + 25mg aromasin

2 more weeks - 20mg nolva ED

1 week - 10mg nolva
 
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