Quesions for heroin addicts

[Z Y G G Y]

I've been clean for 8 months, on suboxone.

It's hard, but don't give up hope that it's possible.

Chances are that sooner or later she will recover.


If she wants you to pay for her phone bill, drug test her. If she has money for drugs then she has money for her phone bill.

Suboxone doesn't come up on a drug screen.

You can not really take heroin and suboxone at the same time. It's one or the other. If an addict is high on heroin and is given suboxone they will go into precipitated withdrawal (p/w). I don't know if you are familiar with withdrawal (w/d) but p/w is a lot worse than regular w/d. Also if someone is on suboxone, heroin will not work. Suboxone holds on tighter to the opiate receptors than heroin. So in a battle for opiate receptors suboxone will always win. She would have to wait at least 24 hours from her last suboxone dose to get high on heroin. So when she is telling you that she is on suboxone but is also doing heroin, its total bs, she is not on suboxone most likely.

What some addicts do is switch from sub to heroin depending on availability. This is hard since you have to be in moderate w/d from dope to even go on suboxone. You can't be high on dope when you take suboxone otherwise you go into p/w. But some addicts do that, if the have dope they use it and if they are they get on suboxone.

Don't call her work and tell them she is using. IF they don't know already I really wouldn't advise that. If she isn't in trouble with the law then stuff like letting strangers know she using is a bad idea. It can get her arrested or what not. I think at this point her getting arrested would do more damage than good. It's my advice to stay as far away from cops as possible. They never make anything better. They will just mess up her criminal record and will never be able to get a job once she recovers. Same with her boss, once she recovers she might get bad references or what not and it might make her future life unnecessarily shitty. . Try to keep this between your closest family.

There are great places outside of US that have drug rehabs. People can stay there for long periods of time. Work, study. The people that hold these are professionals that have been doing this all their lives. These places are far away from big cities so she has no way of getting drugs. The stay and meds are a fraction of what it is here. But I'm sure you wouldn't mind getting some extra funds somehow if you knew that there is a possibility of helping your daughter. Try to find a place like that and try to convince her to go. She might have to stay there for a year. If she is already wasting her life away I don't see how this would be a bad idea. She might also pick up a foreign language while there. I suggest a year at least seeing how she seems to have no self control with her addiction. One name of a place that comes to mind is "MONAR" but I'm sure there are others. Some religious, some not. Anything else you do other than taking her to one of these places means waiting for her to help herself. Well, she isn't doing a good job of it.

Also make sure she isn't selling her suboxones in order to get dope. No one really needs more than 8mg per day of suboxone. 8mg is about $8 per day, so its not that much when its something that can help your daughter stay clean. IF she wants anything from you or her mother I would make an ultimatum with her. Her mom or whoever she lives with, would have her suboxone subscription. Everyday that person would take out an 8mg pill, give it to your daughter and watch her take it. This would make sure she isn't selling the pills for dope, this also means she isn't doing heroin cuz if she just took an 8mg pill there is no way she is getting high on heroin for the next day or two, and also if she was high she would be thrown into p/w.

At this point you need to treat your daughter like a baby again. You need to check up on her everyday at least. see what she is up to, give her drug tests, if u have an unlimited supply give her one whether u feel like it, or if she wants something from you. Positive drug test, no money, no nothing. No matter how much she wants her space, this is not a good time for her to have it. Trust me. When I was quitting, my mom who lived 50 miles from me was at my house everyday, all day while my husband was at work, just to watch me, so that I don't get any stupid ideas and it worked.

Heroin stays in the urine for up to approximately 4 days.

 

[xxkcxx]

My advice is bolded within the quote...

Thank you for all your replies and thank you for all your great words!
I read every single one, including th private one.
I wish the best for all of you.

My daughter claims she is taking the "STEPS" to getting clean by getting on suboxone and coming home this weekend to pass a drug test. I also understand suboxone dont show up on an opiate test?

No, Suboxone will NOT show up. Don't let her try to tell you it will. Neither should Vicodin on the standard NIDA test.

she lives with her mom and her mom is a nurse so she has an endless supply of tests.

I had her a prescription for suboxin, but it became to expensive and 2 weeks into treatment she ran out and almost left. she has state funded insurance and i dont think they will pay for suboxone.? does any one know anything about this?

Honestly, I don't, but call the local department of health. They would.

She was going to college to be an accountant while she was waitressing part time. well, she told them she had a problem and she was going into treatment, well they just recently took her back after treatment. Can addicts hold jobs? I feel like calling them and telling them the situation, but i dont want to upset her anymore. however, I know this job will provide money for her addiction. what should i do?


No. Don't call her job. Yes, it is money that could feed her addiction, but this is her life and her job has nothing to do with you, unless it is your business or something, which it doesn't seem to be. If she uses her money for drugs, there will be consequences eventually, in some form.

Many addicts are able to hold jobs.

At first, I wasn't--I quit both of my jobs and school. But recently, I have been able to work and use.

what are they things i should and shouldnt do to help her?

people tell me not to enable her, so when she called me yesterday to pay her phone bill i told her "NO".

Good start

I do not know if she is really ready to quit. so, as one poster put it saboxone might enable her to use. I spent over 1,000 dollars last time with doctors visits and 2 presciptions for suboxone to help her and it did nothing

I apologize for pouring my heart out on here, but this addiction is tearing my life apart. Everyday is very painful knowing she is hurting, and there is nothin i can do to help her. Everyday my thoughts are consummed by this addiction.
I feel like giving up hope, but i dont want to just sit back and let her die. Theres got to be something i can do to help her.
I feel so helpless. How can i live my life when she is in such a bad place? I dont know what she is doing to feed her addiction, and i can only guess its really bad things.

I do worry about her safety, just last week one of her friends landed in the hospitol. It SCARES me to death to think about losing her. but, i feel like there is no good outcome from this situation.


I appreciate everything you guys have told me, i do feel a little better understanding this situation.

Corey

Finally, I am going to suggest you at least LOOK INTO Families Anonymous or Al-anon. I believe Families Anonymous is more orientated toward families of drug addicts, whereas Al-anon is for families of alcoholics. AA and NA can be pretty interchangeably, but I am not sure about the family programs.

Families Anonymous help my mom a lot. It helped her get over her feelings of guilt, her attempts at trying to control my life (which is out of her control), teaching her what is enabling and what isn't.

My mom is probably the least sociable person you will meet and wasn't into the support group thing at first. She still doesn't go to meetings, but there is an online forum she looks at regularly--that was what helped her.

I bring it up because of where you said you don't know how to be happy while this is going on with her.

You just have to. You have a life and she has a life. Each of you will live how you want to despite what the other wishes. Doing what your daughter's addiction (and it is her addiction ruling her right now, if she is using) will only harm her. While she is using, you need to distance yourself emotionally if you have to, but don't let her manipulate you as she most likely will try. She is an adult...you need to let go at some point and let her be forced to experience her own consequences as much as it hurts.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Don't believe her reassurance that everything is good and dandy. I did that during my addiction. People close to me were concerned about me and I kept reassuring them that all is good. But I was helpless with my addiction. I just told them that to leave me alone czu I knew there is nothing they could do for me. I wanted them to leave me alone and unless thay had sme way of helping me their nagging was really of no help.

Example of a phone conversation:
Friend: Z you need to stop using
Me: I'm not using, I stopped.

Met up then phone conversation:
Friend: You definitely looked like you were on something.
Me: It's really none of your business. I'll quit whenever I want to. Stop bringing it u or I won't see you or talk to you anymore.
(What I was thinking: Unless you have a way of helping me, shut the fuck up, I know I have a problem and you bringing it up in my face all the time makes me feel worse than I already feel. I'm helpless in my addiction but there is nothing your useless words will do to help me.)
Stops talking to friend cuz all they want to talk about with me is my addiction. They are not helping. Words are cheap. If anything I need a distraction from my drug use. Unless you can find a practical solution for me to help me quit, please limit my addiction talk to a minimum or we won't be friends anymore.

 

[jigsawpuzzlepiece]

Sucks ZYGGY I know how it is when you feel nobody else can help you but you gotta know they are being that way because they care about you and they don't wanna see you miserable or have your life ruined. I regret blowing off a lot of my friends cause now that I am working on staying sober its really coming back to bite me in the ass. I have to work so much harder to regain peoples trust and am just starting to rebuild a lot of relationships that got tossed to the wayside when I was addicted to heroin.

So yeah I definitely understand where you are coming from ZYG but you should consider where your friends are coming from and try to be a little more respectful towards them. If they are people are actually consider friends and you ever have a hope of getting clean you are gonna need good sober friends.

 

[jigsawpuzzlepiece]

Thank you for all your replies and thank you for all your great words!
I read every single one, including th private one.
I wish the best for all of you.

My daughter claims she is taking the "STEPS" to getting clean by getting on suboxone and coming home this weekend to pass a drug test. I also understand suboxone dont show up on an opiate test?

she lives with her mom and her mom is a nurse so she has an endless supply of tests.

I had her a prescription for suboxin, but it became to expensive and 2 weeks into treatment she ran out and almost left. she has state funded insurance and i dont think they will pay for suboxone.? does any one know anything about this?

She was going to college to be an accountant while she was waitressing part time. well, she told them she had a problem and she was going into treatment, well they just recently took her back after treatment. Can addicts hold jobs? I feel like calling them and telling them the situation, but i dont want to upset her anymore. however, I know this job will provide money for her addiction. what should i do?

what are they things i should and shouldnt do to help her?

people tell me not to enable her, so when she called me yesterday to pay her phone bill i told her "NO".

I do not know if she is really ready to quit. so, as one poster put it saboxone might enable her to use. I spent over 1,000 dollars last time with doctors visits and 2 presciptions for suboxone to help her and it did nothing

I apologize for pouring my heart out on here, but this addiction is tearing my life apart. Everyday is very painful knowing she is hurting, and there is nothin i can do to help her. Everyday my thoughts are consummed by this addiction.
I feel like giving up hope, but i dont want to just sit back and let her die. Theres got to be something i can do to help her.
I feel so helpless. How can i live my life when she is in such a bad place? I dont know what she is doing to feed her addiction, and i can only guess its really bad things.

I do worry about her safety, just last week one of her friends landed in the hospitol. It SCARES me to death to think about losing her. but, i feel like there is no good outcome from this situation.


I appreciate everything you guys have told me, i do feel a little better understanding this situation.

Corey

Corey man I just wanted you to know you are not alone, we have all felt powerless against addiction, whether it is our own addictions, or watching a friend or family member or anybody that you love fall to their addictions. Its terrible, and they will say things like you said your daughter is saying - especially if she is only 6 months in she probably truely believes that everything is cool. its easy to convince yourself when you have dope that everything is ok because damn when you are high everything FEELS ok.

I think pushing her towards suboxone is a good option, it has helped alot of people.

I also think you can pay her cell phone bill, you shouldn't cut her off, but never give her cash. If she wants to find drugs, she will find them. The best way you can help her, as much as it sucks, is to just let her know that you are there for her. Eventually, and hopefully sooner than later, she will realize the ills of heroin addiction and she will need help. Just try and check up on her as frequently as possible.

If it appears things have taken a drastic turn for the worse, like if she ODs or starts to look really strung out or anything of this nature, you might have to take some heavier steps but usually forcing addicts to get clean has a low rate of success and could just cost you a lot of stress and misery once she relapses cause she wasn't ready to quit on her own.

I wish I could talk to my parents about it sometimes, but I don't want them to know because it would crush them and they would worry themselves fucking sick over me and I just can't live with that. Major incentive to stay clean, hopefully your daughter can find hers. 6 months isnt long to be on, but after 6 months of being hooked I was really ready to stop. 6 months later, I finally did, so about a year. And I shouldn't say I quit, I am just clean for now, and hopefully for as long as I can fucking manage...

 

[Draigan]

You can manage as long as you just manage now. If you complicate matters with all sorts of nonsense you will miss the moment! Why cause yourself more suffering?

 

[icelated]

Don't believe her reassurance that everything is good and dandy. I did that during my addiction. People close to me were concerned about me and I kept reassuring them that all is good. But I was helpless with my addiction. I just told them that to leave me alone czu I knew there is nothing they could do for me. I wanted them to leave me alone and unless thay had sme way of helping me their nagging was really of no help.

Example of a phone conversation:
Friend: Z you need to stop using
Me: I'm not using, I stopped.

Met up then phone conversation:
Friend: You definitely looked like you were on something.
Me: It's really none of your business. I'll quit whenever I want to. Stop bringing it u or I won't see you or talk to you anymore.
(What I was thinking: Unless you have a way of helping me, shut the fuck up, I know I have a problem and you bringing it up in my face all the time makes me feel worse than I already feel. I'm helpless in my addiction but there is nothing your useless words will do to help me.)
Stops talking to friend cuz all they want to talk about with me is my addiction. They are not helping. Words are cheap. If anything I need a distraction from my drug use. Unless you can find a practical solution for me to help me quit, please limit my addiction talk to a minimum or we won't be friends anymore.

this feels like our phone conversations. wow, i see a different side to things.

 

[eon_blue]

People keep saying to push her towards Suboxone, but I'm going to again advise against doing that. First of all, she's probably going to decline because she wants to keep using. Likewise, if you give her some kind of ultimatum and she agrees to go on it, she's just going to use it as a way of making you think that she's clean when she really isn't.

Again, you can use while on Suboxone. It's a pain in the ass and requires you to purposefully withdrawal from time to time, but if she wants to keep using then I guarantee you that she will whether or not she is on Suboxone. It will end up just being a waste of your money. She might even sell it to fund her addiction, not to mention like I said, she can use it as a way of making you think that she's clean because she's "taking her pills".

If she comes to you and finally admits that she actually wants to stop using, then by all means pay for her to get on Suboxone. It is a miracle drug for those who use it the way it was meant to be used. Until then, don't push it on her because I guarantee it won't work. You've already seen that first-hand from her last unsuccessful attempt at using it to stay clean.

 

[xxkcxx]

She might even sell it to fund her addiction, not to mention like I said, she can use it as a way of making you think that she's clean because she's "taking her pills".

Yes..

Subs are great to use just when you don't have dope.

I would trade them to my friends for bags of heroin.

Also, like you said, one of the reasons my parents think I am clean is because I am "on suboxone."

I'm not proud of lying to them, but you are right, suboxone has made it easier.

If you do put her on it...do it through a clinic or watch her take it ever day or something. A clinic would be a better option, though.

 

[smackem]

People keep saying to push her towards Suboxone, but I'm going to again advise against doing that. First of all, she's probably going to decline because she wants to keep using. Likewise, if you give her some kind of ultimatum and she agrees to go on it, she's just going to use it as a way of making you think that she's clean when she really isn't.

Again, you can use while on Suboxone. It's a pain in the ass and requires you to purposefully withdrawal from time to time, but if she wants to keep using then I guarantee you that she will whether or not she is on Suboxone. It will end up just being a waste of your money. She might even sell it to fund her addiction, not to mention like I said, she can use it as a way of making you think that she's clean because she's "taking her pills".

If she comes to you and finally admits that she actually wants to stop using, then by all means pay for her to get on Suboxone. It is a miracle drug for those who use it the way it was meant to be used. Until then, don't push it on her because I guarantee it won't work. You've already seen that first-hand from her last unsuccessful attempt at using it to stay clean.

Well, litterally the only thing you have to lose with suboxone is some money. There is no chance in hell it can make her life any worse. And it stands a good chance of making it better. Something to consider.

 

[eon_blue]

Well, litterally the only thing you have to lose with suboxone is some money. There is no chance in hell it can make her life any worse. And it stands a good chance of making it better. Something to consider.

If she's selling it for dope and/or using it make everyone around her think she's sober because she's "taking her pills", then yes, it is making her life worse.

 

[icelated]

well,
she supposedly got some suboxone for herself, and is taking them to get clean. I dont think she has moe than a week supply, but she tels me thats all she will need just to get threw the WD.
she also claims that the WD are the hardest part for her to stay clean, which i think is total BS. Dont get me wrong i am not saying WD are not terrible but i highly doubt thats not the hardest part of not using. maybe i am wrong?

She also said that "i always test my stuff before i shoot my normal amount" to make sure she dont OD.

Again, I think thats BS

She told me today she will be coming home on Wed, so she knows she will have to take a test then.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond to my post!

Corey

 

[Miss Hollywood]

Withdrawl is pretty shitty and 9 times out of 10 it is SO BADthat you GO AND SCORE to not feel THAT AWFUL anymore. That is why heroin is such a huge demon and hard to quit...because if you dont have it you get UNGODLY SICK.

Sick on a level that you can not imagine in your wildest imagination. Sick to the point you would(and excuse my example)BLOW A FUCKIN DONKEY TO GET HEROIN SO YOU AREN'T SO SICK.

But, IF you get past the withdrawl, the real test is staying sober and not giving into your cravings and temptations(such as being around people that use,ect.)

But since she claims she is "on suboxone" she shouldnt be feeling the hellish WD symptoms if she's on suboxone BUT she will have mild WD symptoms when she stops taking the suboxone, and then you will have to worry about her relapsing because a lot of the lack of opiates/and or opiate maintinance treatment.

 

[eon_blue]

I can tell you right now, if I didn't have a supply of Suboxone to taper myself off my last heroin relapse with, I most definitely WOULD have continued to use. Withdrawals are that bad for most people. There's no way I would go through that unless I was either being medically supervised or had Suboxone.

I hope she's being honest about using it to get clean. If so, she shouldn't need it for more than 5-7 days tops. Any longer than that, and you're going to end up dependent on Suboxone instead and that shit ain't any fun to withdrawal from either.

 

[bow-viper1]

I can tell you right now, if I didn't have a supply of Suboxone to taper myself off my last heroin relapse with, I most definitely WOULD have continued to use. Withdrawals are that bad for most people. There's no way I would go through that unless I was either being medically supervised or had Suboxone.

I hope she's being honest about using it to get clean. If so, she shouldn't need it for more than 5-7 days tops. Any longer than that, and you're going to end up dependent on Suboxone instead and that shit ain't any fun to withdrawal from either.

That's true, but again, I think every addict is better off on Suboxone than on heroin. It eases you back into a normal lifestyle. If I had the option of a week long Suboxone taper, or going back to using - I'd rather use.

Longer regimens of Suboxone (like Methadone) are great for many people because it takes them out of the mindset of doing illegal things, constantly having to score, spending all of your time worrying about where your next fix is going to come from, risking their lives, and so on.

It has taken me a long time to get back into the rhythm of living a normal day to day life, and without long-term Suboxone treatment, I'd have never gotten here.

However, what it doesn't fix is the mentality of taking a drug to feel good. But, I feel it is still a HUGE leap forward in the grand scheme of things. The final hurdle is getting yourself off of the Suboxone, but I think step one is maintenance that allows you to get back to a normal life.

 

[Staj]

wen i first started on suboxone i was taking dope for 1-3 days then back on suboxone which resulted in 2-3 days of feeling like shit........by the fourth day i would start to feel better, then get more dope and stop the suboxone again........the cycle kept repeating and so i though this suboxone is garbage i wana get back on methadone...........so i asked my dad for help cuz we both thought that methadone is too much of a leash and we needed to find a way to make the suboxone worked. so i started taking my suboxone in front of him every day and now 2 weeks later it is wonderful............a half hour after my suboxone i feel great, it takes away cravings, depressing, axiety etc.

the point is that suboxone does work, but only if taken properly

she definately needs to give suboxone a worthwhile shot, at least a week of proper use........at least get her to give it a week, its worth that isnt it?

if that doznt work then let her get on methadone. also think of suboxone as a long term thing, not just a month or two......cuz u need the suboxone to keep the cravings away as they are the hardest part, not the withdrawal.

and if u think suboxone is two expensive then only let the doctor prescribe 8mg as that is all u need.

also u can pay her phone bill but pay it online or whatever...............just dont give her the cash.

 

[icelated]

My daughter has been staying with friends until she can stay sober long enough to pass a drug test. well, i got a few text messages this morning.

she claims where she is now that she pretty much gets the heroin for free.
she said "idk what to do. where im at right now im pretty much getting everything for free. i have suboxone but everytime i plan on not using for a day so i can start it i end up just using" my reply "i dont know what to do" , " sounds like you dont want to quit!"
her reply " i really do. its just so hard its in front of my face for pretty free all day long" , " i have been doing better though. i went a couple of days to where i went all day and then did it at night and then some days i didnt even shoot up i just smoked" 8) To hear these words is like a dagger to the heart.

long story short i told her she could come here to sober up and pass a drug test, but i dont think she will stick around more than a couple of days. she said she would call me tomorrow, sounds like she was up all night using and is now going to bed and its 7:00 am

I dont know what to do anymore. I feel like everything we have ever done so far is pointless. I feel like now she is in a worse place than before. I feel like things just keep getting worse. I am losing hope for her. I am scared of losing her.
This is not how i want to spend the rest of my life. ( Depression from all of this, not caring about life anymore,anxiety, ANGRY, etc...)

No one ever seems to be angry over the dealers. I mean if they didnt do the things they do, things would be a whole heck of alot better dont ya think? If i was an addict and i really wanted to quit i would turn my dealer in so i would not know where to get it. Anyways, im just angry inside. I did not think this was the way things were going to end up for us.

corey

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Again, you can use while on Suboxone. It's a pain in the ass and requires you to purposefully withdrawal from time to time, but if she wants to keep using then I guarantee you that she will whether or not she is on Suboxone. It will end up just being a waste of your money. She might even sell it to fund her addiction, not to mention like I said, she can use it as a way of making you think that she's clean because she's "taking her pills".

My understanding was always that if one is an addict and high on dope and if that person was to receive buprenorphine that person would fall into precipitated withdrawal. That's why addicts have to wait until the dope is outta their system at least enough to cause moderate withdrawal in order to start the buprenorphine treatment.

Second when one is on suboxone, a substantial amount of hours needs to pass before a heroin high can be achieved. This is a graph I made some time ago which shows how much bupe is left in the body and the amount of bupe left depends on the initial dose of bupe.
(Half life is the number of hours needed for a substance to be reduced by one half, so for example if I took 2mg of bupe it takes 37 hours on average for the amount of bupe in my body to be reduced to 1mg)
(Another thing to note that half life of each substance heavily depends on individual metabolism and possibly other factors, the average half life for bupe is 37 hours, this average was calculated by taking half life's from many different people and taking their average.

So, basically what I was trying to say before is that suboxone and heroin can not be used simultaneously (at the same time) but instead a substantial amount of time needs to pass in b/w the two drugs.

Sure you can switch from sub to dope, then dope to sub depending on availability and your cravings. But does that mean that you can use dope while on suboxone? Or does that mean you can switch b/w dope and suboxone which is a real pain in the ass?

 

[sweetbeatlvr]

i just wanted to say, i am so sorry you are going through this, it will probably be one of the hardest things you'll ever have to deal with in your life. addiction is awful, for the addicted and those around them.

i've been on both sides of the fence. i was addicted to opiates (pills then heroin) for about 2 years, and also crack cocaine for almost a year.

and then i've had to watch my brother go through addiction, and is now currently in prison for some of his actions, while using. it's absolutely heartbreaking.

there is hope though! i havn't touched heroin for over 6 years now, and although i had a couple slips with the crack, it's been almost a year since i've touched that crap too.

one of the biggest helps for me, was the support from family, and after getting clean, seeing what i put them through.

nothing they said or did, while i was using, helped me. i had to crash and burn myself. i lost all of my possessions, and almost lost my husband and daughter. (drugs will COMPLETELY change a person's personality, moral values, EVERYTHING.)

i think the best thing you can do is stay in contact, continue to let her know you love her, and are worried for her, DO NOT give her money, and let her know you are there for her as soon as she is ready to get clean.

i don't know if you are spiritual or not, but prayer has always helped me when i am feeling low, and hopeless. i will say a prayer for you.

my heart goes out to you.

 

[Lost and Confused]

Corey, you need to get her away from wherever she can conveniently get it. It makes it so much harder if its in front of you every day.


I think having her stay with you is a good idea so please try to get her to stick around as long as you can. Just be sure to keep things like your wallet, debit or credit cards, or easily pawnable items away from her...when you're an addict you stop seeing that diamond necklace that's been passed dowh through your family for generations less and less as a relic and more and more like a bag of dope.


And as for being angry at dealers...its not really their fault. Just like every other business, they are providing a service. We are the ones with the choice of whether or not to use them.