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Tcb-2

Potency may not be the end all and be all, but it's sure handy to have!
d-LSD, for example. What is already an awesome psychedelic is made even better by it's extraordinary potency.
 
Ham-milton said:
I've always found the search for the most potent this or that amusing, along with Tihkal and Pihkal entires where he stops at 50mgs or less.

Imagine if no one thought to try higher than that for mescaline.
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Some were hard to synth though - so even if desired they were too costly.

also if you knew you were the first to try a compound ever, even though potency doesn't necessarily correlate with toxicity - working doses up to mescaline mg amounts would be very time consuming if done safely. I.e leaving enough days/weeks for it to clear the system before next double size dose and constantly monitoring for side effects.
 
MattPsy said:
MGS: That cyclobutane ring isn't supposed to be fully saturated. The right hand side of that ring is supposed to be an alkene double bond. This adds conformational rigidity.
edit; Wait, no it's not. Move along, nothing to see here :p .
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benzocyclobutadiene is not stable ! The free butadiene is stable only in solid Argon !!! Imagine : swallowing psychedelic argon icecubes =D !!!
 
^ well, if you ignore the fact that it'll freeze anything you touch. I think it'll be a pain in the ass to get down..
 
Don't forget that only one isomer is really more potent than free-chain 2c-b.
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Well if the one isomer is about as potent as LSD, the racemate shouldn't be much more than half the potency.
 
dorothyperkins said:
Well if the one isomer is about as potent as LSD, the racemate shouldn't be much more than half the potency.
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it isnt as potent as LSD, it is just mentioned to be twice more potent than 2C-B (not LSD).
 
the EC50 of the active isomer is indicated to have required a lower dose than LSD when admininstered to mice trained to discriminate LSD from saline (if i recall correctly)

basically saying it is more potent than LSD i'd say
 
The compound (2C-BCB / TCB-2) is strongly psychedelic at 1.5 mg, with mild effects at 0.5 mg (haven't tried less than that). It is *not* psychedelic at typical LSD doses.

I'd say there is a high possibility that it is doing something "non-obvious" at lower doses, and I'd love to try it as a nootropic at those levels. You get the feeling that you're really pushing it to get the typical psychedelic effects. Can anybody say "microgram-level Ritalin?" :) I feel like 100-200 ug might be a good place to start.
 
letsmakeadiels said:
The compound (2C-BCB / TCB-2) is strongly psychedelic at 1.5 mg, with mild effects at 0.5 mg (haven't tried less than that). It is *not* psychedelic at typical LSD doses.
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Can you outline the subjective effects of the substance? Now, if it is really a psychedelic, I'd suspect it to have many similarities with dragonflies/NBOMes. Also, what can you say about it's adrenomimetic properties? They seem to be one of the main reasons bromo-dragonfly is that toxic, and it is sad research chemicals suppliers never mind creating anything besides bromine containing ones, as 2C-B and DOB are among the adrenergic champions.
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
ok now the million dollar question.....


....is it within the U.S. CSA analogue act?? =D =D 8o 8o
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There's no way to know for sure. But given the following phrase in the Analogue Act, pretty much any active "hallucinogen" (forgive my use of the inaccurate and perjorative term) could almost certainly be included.

(In section A)
(ii) which has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II; or
(iii) with respect to a particular person, which such person represents or intends to have a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II.

Granted its completely illogical and technically impossible to define a "substantially similar effect" when it comes to subjective pharmalogical effects even between 2 individuals, but if one is attempting to find logic and reason, they needn't look in the U.S. legal code, especially re controlled substances.

However, given the complete lack of prosecutions of individuals, and the cost involved with finding the identity of a substance and paying pharmacologists and chemists to testify, prosecution wouldn't be very likely.

I imagine most of the 2c-x's would fall under this act, but they aren't terribly difficult to aquire.
 
Erny said:
Can you outline the subjective effects of the substance? Now, if it is really a psychedelic, I'd suspect it to have many similarities with dragonflies/NBOMes. Also, what can you say about it's adrenomimetic properties? They seem to be one of the main reasons bromo-dragonfly is that toxic, and it is sad research chemicals suppliers never mind creating anything besides bromine containing ones, as 2C-B and DOB are among the adrenergic champions.
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I was not aware of this, could you please elaborate further? <3
 
On how do adrenergic effects relate to toxicity? This is quite simple conclusion. Psychedelic phenylethylamines are known to be alpha-1 adrenaline receptor agonists. Which one is the worst is but my personal (wait, not only mine) opinion. I'd say bromine is the worst, chlorine is also suspicious, iodine and methyl are less adrenergic, with methoxy it depends on where it stands: mescaline is OK, TMA-2 is not. Can't say anything about sulphur, ethyl and propyl.

I'll quote the paper on one of the most recent bromo-dragonfly related deaths:
In the present case, an 18-year-old woman was found dead after ingestion of a hallucinogenic LSD-like liquid. The woman and her boyfriend had presumably both ingested around 1mL of the liquid on the preceding evening (between 10 and 11pm), and their intention was to have sex during the high. At 12pm they started feeling the “LSD-trip”. However, they both fell asleep, and when the boyfriend woke up at 5am the following morning, he found his girlfriend dead. A medico-legal autopsy was done on the deceased, and liver, blood, urine and vitreous humour were submitted for toxicological examination. Furthermore, a bottle containing the hallucinogen LSD-like liquid was subjected to analysis. The autopsy findings included oedema of the lungs, slight oedema of the brain, enlargement of the spleen, irritation of the mucous membrane in the stomach and ischemic changes in the kidneys.
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fulltext

All those oedemas look very much like multiorgan ischaemic infarction, likely due to abnormal vasoconstriction, which itself is due to adrenergic, together with serotoninergic, action of the drug. The same effect that may cause tissue necrosis in bromo-dragonfly (and DOB!) overdose.



That is, all the ultrapotent psychedelic phenylethylamines are risky, though not to the same extent. Dragonflies seem to be not just very potent, but also extraordinary adrenergic. Especially those with bromine atom.
 
Wow, that's pretty horrific, to say the least. Do you think she died in her sleep? It sounds like it would probably be painful?

As letsmakeadiels said, TBC-2 seems to have slight effects at 400mcg. I'm wary of going much further after reading Erny's post! Anyone have any ideas on the apparent discrepancy between effective doses in rats and humans?
 
Do I have it right that they found 21.5mg remaining in that bottle? If they each took 1ml, that's way, way too much; no wonder she died.
 
It's not really clear from the first bit, but it must have been 21.5 mg from the whole bottle, they said later they found it to have a concentration of 0.69 mg/mL. 700 mcg is hardly way, way too much. Well, for a first time maybe it is.
 
Ah, I missed that. 700mcg doesn't seem like a massive overdose; it's said to be 1/5th the potency of LSD, though, so that's only equal to 140mcg. Not a huge dose, but definitely in the active range.
 
Did the male have any adverse effects due to vasoconstriction? I've read about a couple other bromo-dfly deaths, but they all seemed to involve vastly larger quantities than the 700mcg here... Also, what would lead us to believe that TCB-2 would be just as adrenergic? Aside from the bromine atom, obviously?
 
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