Amphetamine, Benzodiazapine, and Methylphenidate's effects on Brain Chemistry

[Colmes]

Benzodiazapine, Amphetamine, Methylphenidate's effects on Brain Chemistry: Questions, Please.

Stimulant abuse has resulted in me losing my now [ex]Fiancee, as I had horrible comedowns, very agitated ect, and has caused other family /friend problems.

Age: 23 ~ In a 4 year college
Use Period: Stimulants Roughly 2,5 years, benzos, 3 years.
MOA: Insuffuated (Focalin 20-30mg per session)
(Vyvanse 140mg oral, to feel anything)
(Clonazapam -RX'd 4mg a day, I often take 6mg a day)

First and foremost, I want to get off of these medications. As far as the benzo, I'd like it down to at least 1mg, daily. I have several medications to aid in the actual withdrawls, and depression.

I have Lyrica, which may be of some use for the decrease in clonazapam (Also, what is a realistic way to titrate your dosage down from say...5mg Daily, 0.5mg every two weeks?)

I also have Modafinil (Provigil) I have heard this med is effective in treating cocaine w/d.

And of course, as much Clonazapam as I need to taper.

Finally, for the topic question. If, God willing, I can get off of these damn medications, is my brain chemistry permanantly altered? Is it altered for a year? 5 years, 5 months? I wonder what all of these pills given to me by doctors have done to my ol'e noggin.

Any guidance is deeply appreciated, and thank you for reading.

 

[Hammilton]

Most likely there will be long term changes. Stimulant abuse tends to do this.

Blaming this on your doctors makes you seem especially stupid: they never told you to snort your amphetamines or take extra benzos you felt like it.

 

[Colmes]

Most likely there will be long term changes. Stimulant abuse tends to do this.

Blaming this on your doctors makes you seem especially stupid: they never told you to snort your amphetamines or take extra benzos you felt like it.

I always respect your posts, as they are informative, and written in the english language. However, I dont see where I blamed my doctor for this? And, to play the devil's advocate, prescribing a Benzo / Amphetamine combo, even when taken as prescribed, can be a recipe for disaster. You know, well, of course you do, as you know everything, that Vyvanse and the like are Sched II medications, medications that are known to have the possibility to make the user form an addiction.

I TOOK THE PILLS, I dont care about the Doctor right now, I care about trying to get off of these medications, and was hoping, giving the provided information, that someone could perhaps give me some reccomendations.

However, A+ on the first part; the answer to my question! I hope that the brain chemistry changes are not too life altering after abstaining from the stimulants.

 

[yaesutom]

I was on klonopin 4mg/day + 60mg dexedrine a day for years. I ran out of klonopin and was forced to go off suddenly for a week or 2 (hellish) totally, til i got some here and there and managed to taper off really fast - after almost none for like two weeks, 1mg taken occasionally was plenty good enough, til i just stopped taking the 1mg and felt "fine". At the time I had the motivation to get off of both meds cause it was after a "psychotic period" (prob caused by years of amphetamine use) and I thought that I had to before the "2012 Shift" or I wouldn't be let in to "heaven" with the aliens etc etc.

It still took months to get back to being almost pretty normal, a year maybe of no benzo's no amphetamines to feeling completely normal again (although sometimes I wonder if i have less motivation now compared to before ever taking amphetamine..)

 

[Colmes]

Thanks for the response.

I believe some people (10%?) probably more, of people who quit benzos after long periods, develop a syndrome which can last for....a long time. I suppose I will try to cut it down in small intervals couple weeks, hope for the best,

and yes, the lack of motivation I certainly have expierienced when I did manage to quit all stimulants for awhile.

 

[Hammilton]

I wonder what all of these pills given to me by doctors have done to my ol'e noggin.

Why mention the doctors at all? It is always the patients responsibility to take the time to look into the possible side effects of short term and long term use and use their judgement as to whether or not to take the drug. This is why in this country we have the right to decide whether or not to take the medication.

You know, well, of course you do, as you know everything, that Vyvanse and the like are Sched II medications, medications that are known to have the possibility to make the user form an addiction.

More blaming, but this time blaming the drug? That's low. Inanimate objects don't even have the ability to defend themselves. Unless you're an animist, in which case you have larger problems.

Addictive drugs don't force anyone to develop an addiction. The user must first make the decision to use the drugs in an extra-therapeutic manner. Oral taking of prescribed doses does not turn anyone into an addict. It is not until the decision is made to increase the dose or to administer it in a faster acting way (insufflation, IV, IM, intrarectal, etc) that an addiction even begins to develop.

Even physical dependence from drugs that produce physical dependences- ie: the benzos- are either nonexistant or relatively minor from medium term use of therapeutic doses. The population that develops severe withdrawals from these drugs at typical doses is fairly small, fortunately.


5mg / day clonazepam is a very substantial dose. It is quite likely that your tolerance will never go down. If you're having memory problems, they'll most likely abate to a degree, but many who have abused depressants for a long period will never regain it fully.

 

[Colmes]

Why mention the doctors at all? It is always the patients responsibility to take the time to look into the possible side effects of short term and long term use and use their judgement as to whether or not to take the drug. This is why in this country we have the right to decide whether or not to take the medication.



More blaming, but this time blaming the drug? That's low. Inanimate objects don't even have the ability to defend themselves. Unless you're an animist, in which case you have larger problems.

Addictive drugs don't force anyone to develop an addiction. The user must first make the decision to use the drugs in an extra-therapeutic manner. Oral taking of prescribed doses does not turn anyone into an addict. It is not until the decision is made to increase the dose or to administer it in a faster acting way (insufflation, IV, IM, intrarectal, etc) that an addiction even begins to develop.

Even physical dependence from drugs that produce physical dependences- ie: the benzos- are either nonexistant or relatively minor from medium term use of therapeutic doses. The population that develops severe withdrawals from these drugs at typical doses is fairly small, fortunately.


5mg / day clonazepam is a very substantial dose. It is quite likely that your tolerance will never go down. If you're having memory problems, they'll most likely abate to a degree, but many who have abused depressants for a long period will never regain it fully.

Well lets see, to answer your first question, I was just out of highschool, and having severe anxiety when I visitied a Doctor. I wasnt interested in anything recreational. Why mention the doctor? Why argue over something that has absolutely no relevance to my post?

As for the rest of your preaching babble, we are all human. I blame no one but myself. I am now trying to fix the problem that I have, myself, created. "Guns dont kill people, people kill people" You took a bumper-sticker slogan, and replaced the word medication. Also, tolerance builds, as you know.

Also, I was not blaming you for anything. I do not have any problems regarding my memory, or capability to retain knowledge.

Annnnd one more thing, it is not until someone decides to shoot up, or snort a drug, that it becomes addicting? Haha. Even something as "harmless" as paxil, creates severe withdrawl symptoms if you were to abruptly stop.

I'm not looking for an argument, i'm just looking for advice, I feel very depressed at the moment, and you attack the post for a single phrase that you molded into what you thought was me blaming doctors.
Pft. If anyone, however, does have any further advice i'm all ears.

 

[Colmes]

And I do certainly hope that I am not one of those who expieriences those severe withdrawls that you mentioned. I know it is not easy. if you walk into a forest for 3 years, usually doesnt take 3 days to get out.

 

[Hammilton]

Annnnd one more thing, it is not until someone decides to shoot up, or snort a drug, that it becomes addicting? Haha. Even something as "harmless" as paxil, creates severe withdrawl symptoms if you were to abruptly stop.

Or to increase their dose, or take another dose too soon.

And withdrawal symptoms are not at all a sign of addiction. They are a sign of dependence. These are seperate issues.

 

[Colmes]

Or to increase their dose, or take another dose too soon.

And withdrawal symptoms are not at all a sign of addiction. They are a sign of dependence. These are seperate issues.

Your mind being addicted, vs your body being addicted.

I guess by your definition, coke wouldnt be addictive.

and the differences between being dependant on a drug (assuming this is not a Cancer, or disease related pharms) and addicted to one, result in the same shit. You have to taper off of it, and go through a great deal of discomfort

That or you've never been on an SSRI. You would then know how dependant one can be on a medication like Paxil.

 

[Hammilton]

Your mind being addicted, vs your body being addicted.

I guess by your definition, coke wouldnt be addictive.

and the differences between being dependant on a drug (assuming this is not a Cancer, or disease related pharms) and addicted to one, result in the same shit. You have to taper off of it, and go through a great deal of discomfort

That or you've never been on an SSRI. You would then know how dependant one can be on a medication like Paxil.

You're having trouble understanding, it's okay. Addiction is really a mental issue. I believe the DSM requires withdrawal signs to be present, but this really means that cocaine wouldn't be considered addictive, which it obviously is.

My definition, and I think the most valid one, is defining addiction by the compulsive use of a substance despite consequences- which may include physical dependence, but definitely isn't required.

I was saying that Paxil is not addictive because it has a physical withdrawal, because it lacks the mental compulsiveness of truly addictive substances.

Cocaine use results in compulsive use: hence, addiction.

But the answer to whether you will experience long term consequences is that no one can tell you. It's definitely possible, but until you're there, it's not possible to say.

 

[negrogesic]

I doubt that you will experience any meaningful long term difficulties as a result of your drug use. I heavily abused benzos, opioids, and to a much lesser extent stimulants, including prescription stimulants (focalin), and only have some issues that I can trace back to the drug use (more specifically, benzo use). I am slightly more anxious now than I was before the benzo use, and yes, I had a horrific benzo withdrawal*. My memory seems as good as it has always been, and I have retained the ability to score high on tests.

The solution is quite simple: taper off of the benzos and discontinue the stimulant use. You will likely be feeling back to normal in 5-6 months**.

* It is worth noting that I was taking hundreds of milligrams of diazepam (more specifically, nor-diazepam) powder.

** Unless you want to be a bitch and focus on it.

 

[shibireru]

It is to commit the false dichotomy fallacy to say that the onus of the preservation of the patient's health must lie either entirely with the patient or the doctor, so that if the patient should become addicted/dependent on some medication only one party should be culpable. I say they're both equally guilty in many cases; the doctor because his very purpose - and what he is paid to do - is to protect and ameliorate the somatic or psychic condition (preferably both) of the patient, and so owes it study up on all the possible long-term and short-term consequences of the use of some medication and apprise the patient of the risks before writing the prescription (*); the patient because, for the good of society and his own, each must learn that it is foolish to surrender oneself completely to the will and judgment of another, expecting good results - one must take his care into his own hands, relinquishing some portion of his sovereignty to more knowledgeable or capable individuals on occasions when he finds himself in need and unable to rectify his problems through his own powers, but always with circumspection and skepticism.

(*) How often does it happen that a doctor prescribes venlafaxine, without informing his patient that he can develop a withdrawal syndrome upon cessation possibly more unpleasant than that experienced with the abrogation of wonted use of heroin, meth, or cocaine? Far too frequently. And it occurs perhaps with similar frequency that a doctor prescribes it not knowing that it can produce such an effect. ...It's hard for me to say which is worse.

 

[Hammilton]

When you write as if you're quoting Jefferson, you sound like an idiot.

In this country, ultimately the responsibility lies with the patient, not the doctor.

And it can never be the doctors fault if the patient becomes addicted unless they are blatantly prescribing too much, allowing refills to frequently, etc.

Ultimately it is the patients responsibility to decide if their ability to control their usage is not strong enough. No doctor can determine this, especially if a patient is not being honest about the way they are taking the drug. If you aren't telling them that you're snorting or taking extra, it is certainly not the doctor's job to hover over you watching how you're taking the drug.

 

[Colmes]

When you write as if you're quoting Jefferson, you sound like an idiot.

In this country, ultimately the responsibility lies with the patient, not the doctor.

And it can never be the doctors fault if the patient becomes addicted unless they are blatantly prescribing too much, allowing refills to frequently, etc.

Ultimately it is the patients responsibility to decide if their ability to control their usage is not strong enough. No doctor can determine this, especially if a patient is not being honest about the way they are taking the drug. If you aren't telling them that you're snorting or taking extra, it is certainly not the doctor's job to hover over you watching how you're taking the drug.

In this thread, you are the only one who comes across as an idiot.
Help was asked for, instead, you turned it into a debate; you gave your opinion and other people gave their opinion. Just because you do not agree with their opinion does not make them "idiots".

As to your response to the above person's post, words cannot express how greatly you have missed the entire point of this thread.

 

[Colmes]

I doubt that you will experience any meaningful long term difficulties as a result of your drug use. I heavily abused benzos, opioids, and to a much lesser extent stimulants, including prescription stimulants (focalin), and only have some issues that I can trace back to the drug use (more specifically, benzo use). I am slightly more anxious now than I was before the benzo use, and yes, I had a horrific benzo withdrawal*. My memory seems as good as it has always been, and I have retained the ability to score high on tests.

The solution is quite simple: taper off of the benzos and discontinue the stimulant use. You will likely be feeling back to normal in 5-6 months**.

* It is worth noting that I was taking hundreds of milligrams of diazepam (more specifically, nor-diazepam) powder.

** Unless you want to be a bitch and focus on it.

Hope you're right. Glad someone who has gone through a similar expierience posted.

 

[Hammilton]

In this thread, you are the only one who comes across as an idiot.
Help was asked for, instead, you turned it into a debate; you gave your opinion and other people gave their opinion. Just because you do not agree with their opinion does not make them "idiots".

As to your response to the above person's post, words cannot express how greatly you have missed the entire point of this thread.

Damn. Now I have to spend 15 minutes crying, then my make up will run, a little will get in my eye, it'll burn and then I'll cry harder.

Okay, now that's finished.

Didn't say anyone was an idiot. Trying to sound like someone else, makes you sound like an idiot, though, which is exactly what I said.

Your questions been answered a million times over. If we can't debate a real issue here, can we at least discuss spring fashion? I hear Rachel Ray has some great tips for making the new styles work for your body.