Poppy Seed Tea and Calcium

[chester mcgruder]

I would like to know if anyone can shed some info on this. A few days ago swim did two cold water extraction from poppy seeds to make pst from 200gs poppy seeds. He got the normal reaction from consuming this pst. He saved the seeds in the bottle in the fridge for a few days. Then after reading that morphine needs calcium to be water soluable, he says might as well try it on those seeds. He added about 1/4 tsp of calcium chloride solution that he has from his cheese making hobby. Then added cold water and let it soak overnight refridgerated. This morning he consumed this pst. The result has been very different than regular pst. He feels very warm and his pupils are tiny. It is a very nice feeling, and he is clear headed. Does anyone have any insight into this? Has he been thowing away most of the m content of seeds by not using calcium? Do people wiith hard water get more out of PST? Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I have experience with PPT and cal. Grind up some tums, throw it in your tea. It makes it more potent. I'm sure it's the same for PST.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Morphine doesn't need calcium to be water soluble, it just has to be present as a salt. A good deal of the morphine in poppy pod and poppy seed tea is present as morphine meconate, the result of it being in contact with meconic acid in the plant. Not all the morphine is a salt in the plant though, some is in the form of morphine freebase and not soluble in water. How much though I don't know; some users add citric acid in some form during the tea making process to maximize the morphine extracted, from what I've heard though any difference noticed in effects could just be placebo, which is what I believe you experienced.

ArtVandalay, adding calcium carbonate would have a different effect to adding calcium chloride. Adding tums will neutralize stomach acids and allow some more alkaloids to be absorbed. Adding calcium chloride will potentially allow some morphine freebase to become morphine HCl, but like I said I doubt there is any real difference in potency. Especially with poppy seed tea, which can vary so much from batch to batch.

 

[noone1]

Every batch has a different potency, you probably got some strong stuff this time. I wouldn't waste my time soaking it overnight the optimum time is about 15-20 minutes after that the morphine gets resoaked into the seeds or so i've heard, I just know the potency drops a lot if you let it soak too long. Nothing better than good old water to soak it in, safe the tums to chew on before you drink the tea.

 

[ranunky]

They use calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide in the morphine extraction process. The fact that there's a calcium ion in there is second to it's function as a base. Calcium chloride would have no effect.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Every batch has a different potency, you probably got some strong stuff this time. I wouldn't waste my time soaking it overnight the optimum time is about 15-20 minutes after that the morphine gets resoaked into the seeds or so i've heard, I just know the potency drops a lot if you let it soak too long. Nothing better than good old water to soak it in, safe the tums to chew on before you drink the tea.

Yeah that's what I have read on here as well, that making the tea for too long will result in a loss of alkaloids.

They use calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide in the morphine extraction process. The fact that there's a calcium ion in there is second to it's function as a base. Calcium chloride would have no effect.

Yep, they use it to freebase the morphine so that it precipitates out of solution and can then be separated. Adding CaCl to poppy seed tea will most likely produce no difference in potency or effects, except for maybe healthier bones and teeth.

 

[chester mcgruder]

I just don't understand why I got such a strong reaction. I expected nothing to happen. I would have chaulk it up to placebo effect if my pupils hadn't constricted so much. They only rarely do that on strong pod tea. Almost never with pst. My rationale for leaving it over night was that this was the third extraction and had alrteady sat in the residule water from the second wash for two days. I thought the seeds would have absorbed the alkaloids. I am going to expirment a little more.

 

[sonic]

Mr. Blonde covered this well. I was going to post some of what he said, but he went above and beyond what I know.
If you're going to add something to your tea you might as well use calcium which is a base instead of using an acid.

 

[ranunky]

If you're going to add something to your tea you might as well use calcium which is a base instead of using an acid.

<narkyness removed> sorry sonic i needed a smoke and had no coins

NSFW:

I just said that they use calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide because thay are bases, not because there's anything special about calcium. Calcium is not a base, it is a metal. Calcium hydroxide is a base, calcium chloride is a neutral salt. Basification turns converts the alkaloids to their freebase forms, which are not water soluable. Use an acid like lemon juice or something to make sure that all the goodies are in their waiter soluable, salted forms.

 

[bighooter]

I did poppy pod powder (parachutes) on the weekend and had calcium tablets for the first time.

OH MY GOD............

Now I understand why you all love poppy pods so much.

 

[Winterpain]

I love pods more than I could ever explain.

This tea has saved me from my Oxy habit. Still not good to be addicted to anything, but hell of a lot cheaper than OCs. Can't beat ordering, and having them brought to my door, instead of trying every source I could think of (or any other opiate to prevent WD) afraid to death of how I would feel in 24 hours if I failed.

~Winter~

 

[sonic]

1. Wtf are you talking about?


2. Even if you did add a base, that would be detrimental to your efforts if anything. 8)

I just said that they use calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide because thay are bases, not because there's anything special about calcium. Calcium is not a base, it is a metal. Calcium hydroxide is a base, calcium chloride is a neutral salt. Basification turns converts the alkaloids to their freebase forms, which are not water soluable. Use an acid like lemon juice or something to make sure that all the goodies are in their waiter soluable, salted forms.

Wrong, using an acid doesn't, "make sure that all the goodies are in their waiter soluable, salted forms." Using an acid doesn't do much of anything except for change the taste of the tea. Using calcium is supposed to convert some of the morphine into water soluble calcium morphenate, however this is normally done with calcium hydroxide and only as a first step for separating the morphine and converting it to diacetylmorphine.

Another random note. I've read that morphine is more soluble in HOT water. So, it seems the cold brews that people make extract mostly codeine.

 

[bighooter]

Another random note. I've read that morphine is more soluble in HOT water. So, it seems the cold brews that people make extract mostly codeine.

Mate I parachuted about 20-30grams of pod powder and I was high and it wasnt a codiene high I was mashed!!!

Definatly doesnt need hot water to be absorbed

 

[Remicks]

Wrong, using an acid doesn't, "make sure that all the goodies are in their waiter soluable, salted forms." Using an acid doesn't do much of anything except for change the taste of the tea. Using calcium is supposed to convert some of the morphine into water soluble calcium morphenate, however this is normally done with calcium hydroxide and only as a first step for separating the morphine and converting it to diacetylmorphine.

Another random note. I've read that morphine is more soluble in HOT water. So, it seems the cold brews that people make extract mostly codeine.

I'm not sure if this is right, I may be wrong but I am a chemistry student and I have pondered this in the middle of large-quantity poppy pods -> morphine processes before I was under the impression that Calcium cation was only needed to make Calcium Morphinate, which is NOT water soluble above a pH of 9.1, and the Citrate anion (present in Citric Acid, for instance) was responsible for orignally making Morphine Citrate from freebase Morphine present in the pod, the Morphine Citrate BEING water soluble. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is what actually happens.

So this brings me to a question that I had before I quit using drugs entirely, from a little over a year ago while I was making poppy tea.

Let's say... I had some water FULL of Morphine Citrate, and I wondered what exactly needs to go into the solution to make that Morphine Citrate into Calcium Morphinate, or whatever form of Morphine that is best suited for human consumption in the form of smoking, i.e. which form of Morphine is most efficient for smoking, that is unless smoking the Morphine achieved this way is infeasible for some reason or possibly unadvisable due to low efficiency. I would greatly appreciate highly knowledgeable answers, especially from people who have done this before, and since this thread seemed on-topic for my question I decided to post it in here rather than clutter the boards up with a new question.

 

[LawnChairSkank]

Let's say... I had some water FULL of Morphine Citrate, and I wondered what exactly needs to go into the solution to make that Morphine Citrate into Calcium Morphinate, or whatever form of Morphine that is best suited for human consumption in the form of smoking, i.e. which form of Morphine is most efficient for smoking, that is unless smoking the Morphine achieved this way is infeasible for some reason or possibly unadvisable due to low efficiency. I would greatly appreciate highly knowledgeable answers, especially from people who have done this before, and since this thread seemed on-topic for my question I decided to post it in here rather than clutter the boards up with a new question.

Probably freebased morphine. Add some ammonia to the water.

 

[Remicks]

Probably freebased morphine. Add some ammonia to the water.

I don't see how adding Ammonia would help...

 

[LawnChairSkank]

I don't see how adding Ammonia would help...

If he's looking to smoke it, you'd probably want to freebase it. Ammonia would freebase the morphine. I read somewhere that If you were planing on smoking a morphine salt that you''d want to use the weakest acid possible. The higher the strength of the acid, the lower the temperature for decomposition. So I'm assuming as with most alkaloids, that the morphine would have it's highest decomposition temperature in it's freebase form.

 

[Remicks]

If he's looking to smoke it, you'd probably want to freebase it. Ammonia would freebase the morphine. I read somewhere that If you were planing on smoking a morphine salt that you''d want to use the weakest acid possible. The higher the strength of the acid, the lower the temperature for decomposition. So I'm assuming as with most alkaloids, that the morphine would have it's highest decomposition temperature in it's freebase form.

I see, thank you. I am going to make another topic on this, however, not because I don't trust your word, but because I want as much advice on this as possible so if I were to pass on this advice I would be telling people the right thing.

 

[Panacea]

Wrong, using an acid doesn't, "make sure that all the goodies are in their waiter soluable, salted forms." Using an acid doesn't do much of anything except for change the taste of the tea. Using calcium is supposed to convert some of the morphine into water soluble calcium morphenate, however this is normally done with calcium hydroxide and only as a first step for separating the morphine and converting it to diacetylmorphine.

Another random note. I've read that morphine is more soluble in HOT water. So, it seems the cold brews that people make extract mostly codeine.

Generally speaking:

Acid + Nitrogen base = water soluble salt.

Base + carbolic acid = water soluble salt.

Both work, to say acid doesnt is retarded. Acid is probably easier for a quick and dirty extraction because you don't need to change the pH so drastically like you would when you deprotonate a phenol.

BTW most salts are still soluble in cold water, and considering the minute concentrations someone making PPT would be working with, I doubt any morphine HCl/whatever will be lost.



Didn't realize people who don't know basic chemistry are allowed to post about it.

 

[RedBaron]

I realize I'm digging up an old thread, but I have a question.
I've never added calcium to my brew before, and I have some calcium hydroxide lying around, which seems to be the best calcium compound to use. My question is, how much should I add to a one cup serving? A tsp? Less? I want to get favorable results without adding too much.
Thanks in advance.