Addicted to Cannabis or Nicotine?

[expothead]

I still say it was the nicotine that had me by the short and curlies. I don't think I've ever enjoyed being stoned as much as the last couple of weeks. Emotions are now returning and i'm functioning again now that i'm not permastoned. These aren't necessarily side-effects of the tobacco but more my ability to abstain from constant use.

I don't like to smoke, bongs or otherwise, its my main reason for 'quitting'. But the vaporiser is just too cumbersome.

Interestingly there is an article in the Sun Herald today (see link).
I'd be interested in that, and curious whether any recreational value is still inherent in the product. Of course, the government would rather see me die of some smoke related illness to further their cause.

 

[KompelZ]

The USA has had a drug like that (or least a very similar one) for years now. It's called Marinol, read up about it on erowid. To be honest, I can't see any health (not psychiatric) problems arising from oral THC use.

The recreational use and clinical efficacy are both heavily debated though. I'd rather reserve judgment until I've tried it myself. Still, I don't think anyone can deny the medical potential of oral cannabinoids/cannabinoid derivatives.

Although there is one of the thing that does shit me and I think this validated by the content of this thread: the contradictions. For example some say cannabis can induce psychosis in vulnerable people, others say it can ease the symptoms of it. Perhaps it's a bit of both; schizophrenics are known to self-medicate with drugs. Who knows?

 

[lil angel15]

Right I'll say this once and once only, anymore of this abuse and flaming and I'll start warning people.

This is not your playground to make personal attacks on people.

Kompelz, I suggest if you do not like the opinions that other posters have, use the ignore feature.

I hate to say it, but if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

Lil angel15

 

[expothead]

Jury Makes Decision: Nicotine

Having spent the last several months thinking about the topic of this thread, and 'experimenting' with my life, i'm now convinced it is the nicotine that is the big problem.

I've battled this 'addiction' for the last 7 months or so with a simple rule to cut down on smoking cigarettes (or rather mixing it with pot and smoking it). I think i can now categorically say the only time i'm not in some state of 'depression' is when there is tobacco in my life. It's nice to get stoned with the vaporiser, but it always feels like something is missing...

Having been at a clients today (where everyone smoked) I accepted a couple of cigarettes and the difference in my 'functionality' this evening is startling. Compared to the last few days, and even this morning i'm a completely different person. The problem is that the 'depression' is never obvious as such and manifests itself as various little problems that in my current mind-state I can easily manage and evaluate without despair.

Oh well - i'm off to get some patches. :D Unless someone has a better idea.

 

[Jakeperson]

Smoke cigarettes, always mix tobacco and pot.

Love it, wouldn't have it any other way. Unless it's offered.

 

[kingpin007]

I have always mixed a ciggy with a g of bud .. I dont smoke ciggys by themselves.

yes it can be hard to quit because of this ...

trouble sleeping etc ..

if this is your problem than try the nico patches or gum ...

Or do what I did smoke a few cones of good bush leaf just to make it easier ...

Hydro weed is the hardest to stop smoking .... so you must use bush weed to ween ya self off then reduce your intake day by day ...

one thing is I did put on a bit of weight ... so if your quitting ciggys/weed I suggest start running or long walks to help with the weight gain ..

 

[eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Lol at this thread, talk about getting off the beating track.......mj, nicotene, codeine, cc, opiates etc.etc.

1. nobody can debate that nicotene is or isn't addictive because it "IS" !!
2. mj is debatable on whether it is addictive.
3. everybody is entitled to their own opinions.
4. nobody has died from mj and no direct proof of cancer (show the proof if otherwise)
5. It's widely known that mj effects "some" ppl in different ways unlike the "majority" of mj smokers out there.
6. It shouldn't be classed as a drug, it should be classed as a mild poison (my opinion)
7. Mj has medicinal uses..e.g munchies , increases appetite for ppl going through chemotherapy, pain relief is debatable
8. mj is and has been widely used since day one not sure which came first tobacco (non laced) or mj
9. nicotene is man made drug cocktail, mj isn't
10. a user of mj can't say mj is addictive, on it's own, if he/she has smoked it with tobacco containing nicotene.
11. mj is healthier for you smoking it without nicotene laced tobacco.
12 you can smoke mj green without coughing. This has to do with a few but simple factors (a) moisture in the mj (should be nil moisture) (b) whether it has been cured properly (c) moisture in the bong e.g warm water, bong being too small or not enough water.
13. most smokers of mj don't suffer from these symptons " unmotivated, paranoid and usually suffer depression/anxiety" 24 hours 7 days
14. This one funny......you can't be addicted to a bong as suggested in above posts, LMAO at this one.
15. some ppl can suffer from depression after smoking mj, however direct link never proven to say mj caused it
16. If you are worried about mj being unhealthy for you by smoking it then eat it instead, healthier alternative.
17. mj vs tobacco = mj wins hands down

for 15 years of my life I smoked mj with nicotene laced tobacco, never once did I light up a cigarette though. I smoked 7 grams a day for 15 years till 2006. Was extremely active and social. In 2006 I had an incident with laced mj which unknowingly which I had smoked. after this incident I decided to quit, which I did. went through 5 days of hell, bad anxiety. Came to the conclusion later that it was the nicotene that I was addicted too. How I come to this conclusion is because I started to smoke mj after a year of quitting without the nicotene laced tobacco. No more cravings for mj as before when I smoked it with nicotene laced tobacco. Observed a weight gain and appetite for food ( could actually taste it), metabolism slowed right down, feel a million dollars. I would say after smoking mj for this long I am fit and healthy and perfectly fine

 

[eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

Having spent the last several months thinking about the topic of this thread, and 'experimenting' with my life, i'm now convinced it is the nicotine that is the big problem.

I've battled this 'addiction' for the last 7 months or so with a simple rule to cut down on smoking cigarettes (or rather mixing it with pot and smoking it). I think i can now categorically say the only time i'm not in some state of 'depression' is when there is tobacco in my life. It's nice to get stoned with the vaporiser, but it always feels like something is missing...

Having been at a clients today (where everyone smoked) I accepted a couple of cigarettes and the difference in my 'functionality' this evening is startling. Compared to the last few days, and even this morning i'm a completely different person. The problem is that the 'depression' is never obvious as such and manifests itself as various little problems that in my current mind-state I can easily manage and evaluate without despair.

Oh well - i'm off to get some patches. :D Unless someone has a better idea.

Good move with the cigarettes..... Worst drug out there !!

 

[C_Tripper]

like Rikodeine?

God I love that stuff.

*hugs dihydrocodeine

Not that it's safe of course. It's an opiate, one of the most addictive substances known to man. I like it, and will continue to use, but to try and pass off opiates as "less dangerous than pot" is laughable. And that's coming from someone who really doesn't like weed. Combining the two is fun though.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Having spent the last several months thinking about the topic of this thread, and 'experimenting' with my life, i'm now convinced it is the nicotine that is the big problem.

I've battled this 'addiction' for the last 7 months or so with a simple rule to cut down on smoking cigarettes (or rather mixing it with pot and smoking it). I think i can now categorically say the only time i'm not in some state of 'depression' is when there is tobacco in my life. It's nice to get stoned with the vaporiser, but it always feels like something is missing...

Having been at a clients today (where everyone smoked) I accepted a couple of cigarettes and the difference in my 'functionality' this evening is startling. Compared to the last few days, and even this morning i'm a completely different person. The problem is that the 'depression' is never obvious as such and manifests itself as various little problems that in my current mind-state I can easily manage and evaluate without despair.

Oh well - i'm off to get some patches. Unless someone has a better id

Try the gum, I liked that stuff. I wasn't trying to quit, but they gave me an energy kick and took away cravings (was too poor to afford cigarettes, had some gum available).

 

[Pistachio]

4. nobody has died from mj and no direct proof of cancer (show the proof if otherwise)

Really this is self-evident. The burning of just about anything produces carcinogenic smoke. You should really be proving how marijuana smoke doesn't cause cancer because that would make it the exception to the rule that applies to everything else in the universe. Breathing in smoke is bad for just about every part of your body, period.

But does reasonable marijuana use increase the risk of cancer substantially enough to measure? Generally, no. It would take a great deal of smoking to cause that sort of problem.

6. It shouldn't be classed as a drug, it should be classed as a mild poison (my opinion)

In testament to your other point about everyone having an opinion, in my opinion your opinion is terribly wrong. :D I'm not sure if it is toxic, hence it would be hard to call it a poison. The term drug though fits it nicely.

7. Mj has medicinal uses..e.g munchies , increases appetite for ppl going through chemotherapy, pain relief is debatable

I think recreation is reason enough to use it and just about anything else. The best use for alot of drugs is getting high.

12 you can smoke mj green without coughing. This has to do with a few but simple factors (a) moisture in the mj (should be nil moisture) (b) whether it has been cured properly (c) moisture in the bong e.g warm water, bong being too small or not enough water.

I have never once considered marijuana to be less harsh than tobacco, but I am a pack a day smoker and consider tobacco smoke to be rich, delicious, creamy and tangy so am hopelessly biased and apparently out of touch with reality.

13. most smokers of mj don't suffer from these symptons " unmotivated, paranoid and usually suffer depression/anxiety" 24 hours 7 days

15. some ppl can suffer from depression after smoking mj, however direct link never proven to say mj caused it

Your standard of evidence is too high perhaps, or you aren't looking hard enough for the evidence. I think you are rationalizing your marijuana use more than anything. What is apparent is that there are massive number of young, heavy marijuana users in all sorts of psychological grief. (anyone remember the episode of Insight about durg use, the psychiatrist there made this claim) Medicating? Perhaps, but the correlation between marijuana use and mental illness is very strong, it is something in the weed, or something that all weed smokers do, this isn't random.

for 15 years of my life I smoked mj with nicotene laced tobacco, never once did I light up a cigarette though. I smoked 7 grams a day for 15 years till 2006. Was extremely active and social. In 2006 I had an incident with laced mj which unknowingly which I had smoked. after this incident I decided to quit, which I did. went through 5 days of hell, bad anxiety. Came to the conclusion later that it was the nicotene that I was addicted too. How I come to this conclusion is because I started to smoke mj after a year of quitting without the nicotene laced tobacco. No more cravings for mj as before when I smoked it with nicotene laced tobacco. Observed a weight gain and appetite for food ( could actually taste it), metabolism slowed right down, feel a million dollars. I would say after smoking mj for this long I am fit and healthy and perfectly fine

I also have a story, two roomates, both pack a day smokers and pot heads, attempt to quit marijuana while maintaining their smoking habits. Both seemingly depressed to begin with, both have substantial physical reactions to the absense of weed. Chills, sweaty palms, anxiousness, panic. This is only two cases so isn't at all conclusive, but may be of interest.


Besides that, I agree almost completely.

 

[eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

.....................


Besides that, I agree almost completely.

 

[Jakeperson]

I have never once considered marijuana to be less harsh than tobacco, but I am a pack a day smoker and consider tobacco smoke to be rich, delicious, creamy and tangy so am hopelessly biased and apparently out of touch with reality.

Do you know how much that makes me want a smoke?
YUM.

 

[eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

^^^^

HAHA, lmao.......give 'em up jakeperson you addicted bad

 

[caius]

Your standard of evidence is too high perhaps, or you aren't looking hard enough for the evidence. I think you are rationalizing your marijuana use more than anything. What is apparent is that there are massive number of young, heavy marijuana users in all sorts of psychological grief....

The fact that there are mentally ill people who consume marijuana does not prove anything by itself. Also, there are "massive numbers" of young people in psychological grief regardless of the substances they consume.

Medicating? Perhaps, but the correlation between marijuana use and mental illness is very strong, it is something in the weed, or something that all weed smokers do, this isn't random.

But correlation is not causation. The fact that there are mentally ill people who smoke marijuana doesn't mean that smoking causes mental illness. You talk about this question like it's been irrefutably resolved--it hasn't.

 

[permastoned]

I don't see why KompelZ feels the need to be so abrasive.. perhaps a little too much opioid withdrawal rage? I know I've had it before.

http://www.qmul.ac.uk/news/newsrelease.php?news_id=175

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01.n1045.a03.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11630-cannabis-compound-slows-lung-cancer-in-mice.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4350642.stm

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=18122

"Senior researcher, Donald Tashkin, M.D., Professor of Medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA in Los Angeles says the findings were a surprise as they expected to find that a history of heavy marijuana use would increase the risk of cancer from several years to decades after exposure to marijuana.

The study looked at people in Los Angeles County - 611 who developed lung cancer, 601 who developed cancer of the head or neck regions, and 1,040 people without cancer who were matched on age, gender and neighborhood

The heaviest smokers in the study had smoked more than 22,000 marijuana cigarettes, or joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 to 22,000 joints.

Even these smokers did not have an increased risk of developing cancer and people who smoked more marijuana were not at any increased risk compared with those who smoked less marijuana or none at all."

I've read a lot into this, and the problem with all the studies saying that cannabis causes cancer is that they are based purely on speculation resulting from the composition of cannabis smoke RATHER than clinical evidence, which matters far more!

For example, it certainly was never speculated that the morning sickness drug thalidomide caused mutations in babies, it was discovered in practice.

Man often makes many errors in his assumptions. Perhaps tar isn't the only causative factor in tobacco smoke that causes cancer, perhaps there needs to be a combination of nicotine and tar? Or more likely, perhaps because THC and other cannabinoids have been shown to INHIBIT cancer growth as shown in some of the above links, the marijuana is actually protecting the individual against the cancer that the tar in the smoke is potentially causing.

Remember people, never be closed-minded, its a horrible trait. Peace.

 

[pinothippy]

All studies showing any connection between cannabis and cancer are dubious. It's far more desirable for a scientist to discover a danger of cannabis than to discover that its safe, thus many tests are fundamentally flawed in a way thay promotes negative results. See Ricaurte and MDMA studies.

In the real world, there are no instances of cannabis causing cancer ever. There have been no deaths as a result of cannabis, either short term or long term use. Being a Harm minimisation site, people should be given the facts and then allowed to make their own choices. Problems wouldn't be better off exaggerated like you mention. This is why drugs are illegal in the first place. Or do you agree with that also?




If you hate cocaine, then why would you be using it in the first place? I agree certain drugs like meth or cocaine are more addictive - but its far more to do with the physical aspects than anything psychological. I hate the feeling of meth, but I know after smoking it, my body craves more. It's not myself thinking I want more. If it was a result of pure psychological addiction, then I'd feel the same way after smoking cannabis. Which I don't.



It's called first hand experience - something you obviously don't have in regards to a codeine addiction. If you did, you wouldn't talk of it so lightly, nor would you consider what I say is automatically bullshit because it doesn't fit within your narrow view of substances.

Peaked - you have smoked for what..5 years? I've smoked from the moment i wake to the moment i sleep for 20yrs..i've been smoking for 25yrs all up. I'm making an educated guess i've been stoned the entire time you have been alive.

Ganja is addictive no doubt in my mind. I know plenty of people who smoke straight but NEED to smoke every day. I also know 3 people personally who have been hit with throat cancer - all under 45 who have never smoked anything but ganja - one is now dead and 2 are ok atm but are by no means out of the woods. Smoking any vegetable matter involves breathing in benzopyrenes - this shit causes cancer and it is not limited to tobacco. Smoking weed can cause cancer.

I doubt you'll see the various negative things smoking weed brings in 5 yrs... hell it took me at least 15yrs to even get an idea of the effect on my health and my brain... and 25yrs later i'm still doing it. Dont make the same mistake i did and buy into the pot is harmless crap - smoking anything IS NOT GOOD FOR YOU!

Do you smoke Hydro? If you dont grow it yourself welcome to the world of Flea Bombs. Most hydro ops in Aus get afflicted with spider mites. These little pricks will ruin an indoor grow in weeks... ask yourself if you have 30k worth of ganja growing but get hit with mites ... do you rip the crop and steralize your room... no you let off flea bombs to get rid of the buggers and send the dope to market. This is the reality - you are smoking stuff saturated in some of the most toxic chems on the market - but shit its natural.... not

Hopefully you might realise the damage that dakka can do to you before you have done yourself irreversable harm. Oh by the way i have throat cancer too ..at 38. But i smoked cigs too.

38 might seem old to you but let me tell you its way too young to cop one of the nastiest cancers there is. I'll be lucky to see my kids grow up.

Hopefully one person reads this and changes their behaviour before they end up like me.

Hippy

 

[noysy]

I totally agree with you pinothippy on what you have said.

I smoked ganja since I was 15 due to bad influences such as family, Im now 22 and this year was my first attempt to give it up as all it was doing was making my depression worse then it actually was. I can say I was addicted to MJ and not the nicotene, I would come home and I would need that "hit" from the bud. If I didnt have it I was a totally different person in all ways I would get abusive, emotional, depressed.. its now been 2months since I havnt hit the pipe and my life is starting to get back on track, im wanting to move forward in life now where when I smoked ganja I couldnt give a stuff. I dont think I realised how "mentally" addictive the stuff was untill I gave up.

Im still smoking ciggies but eventually wont to give that up to, one step at a time though.

 

[pinothippy]

I think mixing weed and tobacco is probably worse both in the general effects on ones health and the addiction potential than smoking straight weed. I would imagine non tobacco smokers would need their nicotine fix after a while and the only way they get it is in cones or spliffs. Even so smoking straight weed in my experience can lead to psycological addiction.

Noysy - stick with it. It sounds like your on the right path. Weed can be fun and relaxing.. but it can certainly lead to mood swings, depression etc.

I certainly dont think it should be illegal - i think much of the harm comes from those laws. Even so people who think ganja is harmless are kidding themselves.

An old Moroccan saying somes it up well

Kif is like fire..a little warms but too much burns

 

[Jakeperson]

Exactly, use not abuse. Same as every other drug.