• Trip Reports Moderator: M!$ter-ED

The Belated Substance of the month! Synthetic Cannabinoids

I guess this is the best place to put this.... I appear to have developed either a sensitization to vascular side-effects of synthetic cannabinoids, or some actual vascular damage following a few months of daily smoking (approximate quantity: 3g of Organicworx' Smoke - I believe this is reputed to be equivalent to 100 mg JWH-018, but who knows? - a week).

The symptoms include pain in the hands, wrists, and feet (predominantly on the right side of the body), and raised blood vessels on legs and hands (again predominantly on the right side).

The symptoms have, for the past week, arisen within minutes of smoking and gradually subside over an hour, and appear to have got worse over the course of the week (or rather, smaller quantities produce the same amount of symptoms as larger quantities previously did). Having satisfied myself that there's a relationship between smoking it and having these effects, I have disposed of my remaining Smoke.

I should note that I also smoke tobacco and drink coffee fairly heavily, and that I used cannabis daily for most of the past 4 years and more intermittently before then, and that I have not tested the effects of Smoke in the absence of tobacco or coffee; but tobacco and coffee alone or together do not produce these effects.

These physical symptoms have led me to look for information on them on the internet, and I've got the impression that this may be something like Cannabis arteritis, a form of vascular disease produced by heavy prolonged Cannabis use. Apparently, this can lead to gangrene and amputation. Which is pretty scary. Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions... I guess I should consult my doctor, since apparently early treatment is essential, and the disease if untreated is progressive (so presumably just ceasing to take the drug may be insufficient to produce remission).
 
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invert said:
I guess this is the best place to put this.... I appear to have developed either a sensitization to vascular side-effects of synthetic cannabinoids, or some actual vascular damage following a few months of daily smoking (approximate quantity: 3g of Organicworx' Smoke - I believe this is reputed to be equivalent to 100 mg JWH-018, but who knows? - a week).

The symptoms include pain in the hands, wrists, and feet (predominantly on the right side of the body), and raised blood vessels on legs and hands (again predominantly on the right side).

The symptoms have, for the past week, arisen within minutes of smoking and gradually subside over an hour, and appear to have got worse over the course of the week (or rather, smaller quantities produce the same amount of symptoms as larger quantities previously did). Having satisfied myself that there's a relationship between smoking it and having these effects, I have disposed of my remaining Smoke.

I should note that I also smoke tobacco and drink coffee fairly heavily, and that I used cannabis daily for most of the past 4 years and more intermittently before then, and that I have not tested the effects of Smoke in the absence of tobacco or coffee; but tobacco and coffee alone or together do not produce these effects.

These physical symptoms have led me to look for information on them on the internet, and I've got the impression that this may be something like Cannabis arteritis, a form of vascular disease produced by heavy prolonged Cannabis use. Apparently, this can lead to gangrene and amputation. Which is pretty scary. Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions... I guess I should consult my doctor, since apparently early treatment is essential, and the disease if untreated is progressive (so presumably just ceasing to take the drug may be insufficient to produce remission).
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I am sorry to hear this. And you should go to the doctor. Also, do not say you were smoking Cannabis, rather, you should let him know you were using the synthetic cannabinoid. It appears to me that these drugs can be very dangerous, and that they amplify most of the physiological and psychological effects of THC. It should be used with extreme caution and should not be considered a substitute for Marijuana, as these drugs have an even shorter history of human use than 2C-B.

Please use caution when trying out these drugs yall, no body knows shit about them!
 
Beenhead said:
I am sorry to hear this. And you should go to the doctor. Also, do not say you were smoking Cannabis, rather, you should let him know you were using the synthetic cannabinoid. It appears to me that these drugs can be very dangerous, and that they amplify most of the physiological and psychological effects of THC. It should be used with extreme caution and should not be considered a substitute for Marijuana, as these drugs have an even shorter history of human use than 2C-B.

Please use caution when trying out these drugs yall, no body knows shit about them!
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Thanks for the sympathy, Beenhead. :) I went to the doctor, and he said I didn't appear to have done any serious damage yet (no deep vein thrombosis, for instance), and recommended giving up the synthetic cannabinoids, and also giving up tobacco. The former I have done (I don't think I'll have too much trouble not going back to them as my enduring memory of them will now be as a nasty poison that caused me pain, discomfort and fear for my limbs), the latter I hope to do in the next few days (though this will be harder, of course; nicotine's a ruthless bitch).

And yes, it was bloody stupid to be using these drugs. I can see how I slipped into daily (morning, day and night) use of a barely-researched-at-all research chemical: My first introduction to synthetic cannabinoids was via Spice. At the time, I believed their deceitful advertising that Spice's effects were due to a combination of concentrated extracts of plants all of which had a long history of human use (albeit not in concentrated form). I felt some trust towards ______, after several happy dealings with them in their days as mushroom-providers, and assumed they wouldn't be lying or distributing unresearched synthetic chemicals.

Then I moved on to
--------, assuming it to be broadly similar, using a somewhat different combination of extracts. By the time it became apparent to me that there was likely to be various synthetic cannabinoids in these products, I had got so used to the easiness and convenience of this source of CB-agonism that my psychological dependence on it (transferred from my long history of cannabis use, and probably enhanced by the fact that I could get hold of and use these products much more easily and frequently than I could with cannabis) was such that I happily (with just the odd qualm here and there) ignored the idiocy of what I was doing. I occasionally mentioned it to myself or others ('This is probably rather silly, to be taking a little-known research chemical quite so frequently.') but that didn't stop me carrying on using them, idiot that I am.

Anyway, these scary side-effects have stopped me (and, as an added bonus, may lead to me giving up tobacco too rather sooner than I might otherwise have). And hopefully I haven't done any lasting damage. But maybe I have. Sorry, rather long ramble: what I mean is, 'Hear, hear!' to what Beenhead said. Be careful, everyone. :)
 
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So far this sounds like the worst synthetic cannabinoid experience in human history.
 
invert said:
Thanks for the sympathy, Beenhead. :) I went to the doctor, and he said I didn't appear to have done any serious damage yet (no deep vein thrombosis, for instance), and recommended giving up the synthetic cannabinoids, and also giving up tobacco. The former I have done (I don't think I'll have too much trouble not going back to them as my enduring memory of them will now be as a nasty poison that caused me pain, discomfort and fear for my limbs), the latter I hope to do in the next few days (though this will be harder, of course; nicotine's a ruthless bitch).

And yes, it was bloody stupid to be using these drugs. I can see how I slipped into daily (morning, day and night) use of a barely-researched-at-all research chemical: My first introduction to synthetic cannabinoids was via Spice. At the time, I believed their deceitful advertising that Spice's effects were due to a combination of concentrated extracts of plants all of which had a long history of human use (albeit not in concentrated form). I felt some trust towards ______, after several happy dealings with them in their days as mushroom-providers, and assumed they wouldn't be lying or distributing unresearched synthetic chemicals.

Then I moved on to
--------, assuming it to be broadly similar, using a somewhat different combination of extracts. By the time it became apparent to me that there was likely to be various synthetic cannabinoids in these products, I had got so used to the easiness and convenience of this source of CB-agonism that my psychological dependence on it (transferred from my long history of cannabis use, and probably enhanced by the fact that I could get hold of and use these products much more easily and frequently than I could with cannabis) was such that I happily (with just the odd qualm here and there) ignored the idiocy of what I was doing. I occasionally mentioned it to myself or others ('This is probably rather silly, to be taking a little-known research chemical quite so frequently.') but that didn't stop me carrying on using them, idiot that I am.

Anyway, these scary side-effects have stopped me (and, as an added bonus, may lead to me giving up tobacco too rather sooner than I might otherwise have). And hopefully I haven't done any lasting damage. But maybe I have. Sorry, rather long ramble: what I mean is, 'Hear, hear!' to what Beenhead said. Be careful, everyone. :)
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I would not be that hard on your self invert. This type of thing is part of life. You make mistakes and you learn from them, you seem to of done this. It shows with your outright honesty with your doctor that you realized you made a mistake. I am glad you are letting go of these drugs, and I think it is awfully horrible that these companies are lieing about the contents of their product to sway people who are otherwise not going to buy them.

These drugs strike me as different than psychedelic research chemicles in one major way. Other than the Dragonflys and what have you, I do tend to think they are mostly safe, when used responsibly. But the 2C-B's and the 4OH-MiPTs are very very similar in chemical structure toi their natural counterparts.

These synthetic Cannabinoids are not as similar, and this means that they may loose some of their specificity to creating a mimced effect of Marijuana. Instead, they may effect other systems as well, which my not be a good thing.
 
^ I'm not so sure about that. A few of my friends have concurred with me that the synthetic cannabinoids (c-noids or synthies as we lovingly call them) have the tendency to synergize with any depressant (such as GHB or alcohol) and dangerously inhibit your respiration. On a dose of G and marijuana and c-noids I had to remind myself to breathe for a little while.

So if you are combining them with drugs that depress respiration then you might want to think about going low on either or both of the drugs in the mix.

PS if you are ever freaking out on marijuana or cannabinoids or with somebody that is, make them a real sugary drink (like gatorade mix or something) and let them sip that up somewhat quickly. I don't know why it is but when you give a person sugar that is freaking out from eating too much pot or smoking too much synthetic cannabinoids...they just...chill...the...fuck...out.
 
Gaian Planes said:
^ I'm not so sure about that. A few of my friends have concurred with me that the synthetic cannabinoids (c-noids or synthies as we lovingly call them) have the tendency to synergize with any depressant (such as GHB or alcohol) and dangerously inhibit your respiration. On a dose of G and marijuana and c-noids I had to remind myself to breathe for a little while.

So if you are combining them with drugs that depress respiration then you might want to think about going low on either or both of the drugs in the mix.
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I've found that synthetic cannabinoids suppress breathing (or lead me to forget to breathe) without combining with any depressants (I don't take any depressants at all). Particularly at night when en route to sleep: not sure if that's because at night time I had generally smoked more of them than earlier in the day, or because I was lying down, or because of some synergy with tiredness or verge-of-sleepness. But it (i.e. having to consciously remember to breathe) happened on many many occasions; worried me each time, but not enough to make me stop. Took the vascular effects to make me stop.

Incidentally, my raised blood vessels (and accompanying pain in extremities) subsided about 72 hours after my last dose of synthetic cannabinoids. They now appear to be back to normal.
 
it took me worrying about the buildup of gunk in my lungs to stop...and that was with the pure stuff! (I don't want to think about the impure stuff going around what damage that did to people).

I finally quit using it after I cleaned out my pipe with some isopropyl alcohol and huge HARD chunks of glue-resin literally peeled off the inside of my pipe. Not good news...I don't think anybody wants that stuff in their lungs.
 
How easy did your pipe wash out with IPA and what % of the IPA was water? Did you need to scrub it, or let it soak, or did it peel right off upon making contact with the IPA?

I want to try smoking some resin-glue.
 
Gaian Planes said:
^ I'm not so sure about that. A few of my friends have concurred with me that the synthetic cannabinoids (c-noids or synthies as we lovingly call them) have the tendency to synergize with any depressant (such as GHB or alcohol) and dangerously inhibit your respiration. On a dose of G and marijuana and c-noids I had to remind myself to breathe for a little while.

So if you are combining them with drugs that depress respiration then you might want to think about going low on either or both of the drugs in the mix.

PS if you are ever freaking out on marijuana or cannabinoids or with somebody that is, make them a real sugary drink (like gatorade mix or something) and let them sip that up somewhat quickly. I don't know why it is but when you give a person sugar that is freaking out from eating too much pot or smoking too much synthetic cannabinoids...they just...chill...the...fuck...out.
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Im not so sure what you are not sure about!!:)
 
Coolio said:
How easy did your pipe wash out with IPA and what % of the IPA was water? Did you need to scrub it, or let it soak, or did it peel right off upon making contact with the IPA?

I want to try smoking some resin-glue.
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I would not do this, because looking at the long side chains, do you really want to use partially combusted synthetic Cannabinoids? I would not want to smoke a mixture that is more concentrated in these combusted particles.
 
Coolio said:
How easy did your pipe wash out with IPA and what % of the IPA was water? Did you need to scrub it, or let it soak, or did it peel right off upon making contact with the IPA?

I want to try smoking some resin-glue.
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dude you don't want to smoke that shit haha

it took a good long soaking (and shaking plugged up) in a small tub of 91% IPA.

even then it didn't clean off all the resin (which goos up and bubbles/smokes if touched with flame for long enough).

That stuff looks like bad news really...its dark and real hard and black with kind of a violet/blue irridescent hint to it
 
Acetone will clean you whistle

One of the first things I asked about when having bad results with vaporizing was what would be a good, easily obtainable solvent for JWH-018. One of the friendly folks at ADD suggested acetone. It works so good that a second wash to see if there's anything left is a waste and this was only after swishing it around in my lightbulb pipe for a few minutes.:) Plus, although acetone smells like a god awful solvent, its probably one of the most friendly to your health. Your body makes it. You can even use fingernail polish remover. Be careful though, even if it says 100% acetone some of the brands still list several incredients. The stuff I got only had a common preservative.
 
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