Snitches... rats...

[claire22]

vortex, I have nothing against you personally and you seem like a well educated young man, but you have got to know that ratting out a dealer to the police is a huge mistake. What do you seek to gain from this? I know for a fact a lot of cops will lie straight to your face, hollow promises and say anything to get information. I'm interested in why you think it is acceptable to do so? If you're caught - it's your consequence and nobody elses. I just hope for your own sake you're never busted. You don't like the rules? Don't play the game.

nutshell - resorting to personal attacks & calling him a 'dumbass' isn't going to get you anywhere mate. It's HIS decision, & it seems nobody here is going to sway it. I do agree that it isn't acceptable to rat out somebody for your own personal gain, but just don't worry about it. If he continues to play this game and gets caught, or he himself is ratted out for some reason or another - he'll learn for himself. Don't stress about it, at least you aren't his dealer

 

[delta_9]

What do you seek to gain from this?

As I pointed out, there are documented cases where people have charges dropped or have their jail time shortened by "snitching" on someone. There is CLEARLY something to be gained, whether you think it's right or not, how can you not acknowledge this?

I know I said I would leave, but I will take the same stand as vortex here. I will continue to reply but I will not respond to personal attacks as it does nothing for this thread. I seek only the debate and I appologies for my name calling. It is childish and as I said it does not serve this thread, it only serves one's self.
So please, whether you agree with myself and vortex or not, or whether you like us or not, stop the name calling and attacks. This thread was not started for that purpose. I will also note that it is against the BLUA and the DC rules. You may not respect me but you sure as hell should respect the rules of Bluelight.

 

[claire22]

Hey, I acknowledge that. But you have a lot more to lose than to gain, nobody will ever do business with you again, and you risk a lot of payback from the parties involved. I'd rather do time than be labelled a rat. That is the worst possible thing to be branded in the underworld, I'd like to keep my integrity and respect thanks.

 

[vortex30]

vortex, I have nothing against you personally and you seem like a well educated young man, but you have got to know that ratting out a dealer to the police is a huge mistake. What do you seek to gain from this? I know for a fact a lot of cops will lie straight to your face, hollow promises and say anything to get information. I'm interested in why you think it is acceptable to do so? If you're caught - it's your consequence and nobody elses. I just hope for your own sake you're never busted. You don't like the rules? Don't play the game.

nutshell - resorting to personal attacks & calling him a 'dumbass' isn't going to get you anywhere mate. It's HIS decision, & it seems nobody here is going to sway it. I do agree that it isn't acceptable to rat out somebody for your own personal gain, but just don't worry about it. If he continues to play this game and gets caught, or he himself is ratted out for some reason or another - he'll learn for himself. Don't stress about it, at least you aren't his dealer

I'm a bit weary to keep posting, as I've said twice I will stop posting, but I also said I will post if good points are brought up and I'm not attacked, so.

OK, so, this ENTIRE thing was in one way, a mental exercise for myself, in another way, bringing life to a thread that was doomed for boredom, and in a final way, has yes, a fair bit to do with my personal views, that is why I've argued for this long about it.

As I've said in many posts, I seek to gain my freedom and livelihood, this is only going down if that is on the line, I'm not a 'narc' (someone with a wire who often brings down dealers) or anything like that. I'm not 'on the their side', etc. I'm just self-interested and if my own freedom is on the line, I will attempt to keep it, with a lawyer present, knowing for certain if I snitch I will not face charges.

What makes this acceptable? Hard to say, it is something in me that tells me that for the vast majority, drug users are innocent and don't deserve jail, and drug dealers do (I've outlined why I think this twice now). Is it acceptable in the drug dealing game? I don't think it is acceptable, but I also don't doubt it happens often enough between dealers who once swore by these rules when they were on top of the game, but once caught, broke them in a heart beat.

Overall, I feel the 'don't snitch' mentality is there to protect dealers, but it does nothing to protect the users that I feel are innocent of committing injustices. And I'm just a user myself.

Finally, yeah, I don't like the rules, but I'm also as far removed from the game as possible. I've discovered legal alternatives that are quite effective, and at most I'll be buying a little weed here and there from a close friend who happens to have some, nothing to snitch about if caught, as I wouldn't be losing my freedom over a few grams, its not like I'd ever snitch out a friend either.

Good, legal, easily bought online alternatives = GBL, Kratom, Mephedrone, Nitrous Oxide, DXM. (don't use the last two anymore, mind you) You can even find Ketamine online if you look hard enough. There's many RCs and what not, we don't need to contribute to the illegal drug trade. And then I have the usual Alcohol and Tobacco and Caffeine, so yeah, its not like I'm even playing the game much anymore...So you guys really don't have to worry about me, specifically.

 

[delta_9]

Hey, I acknowledge that. But you have a lot more to lose than to gain, nobody will ever do business with you again, and you risk a lot of payback from the parties involved. I'd rather do time than be labelled a rat. That is the worst possible thing to be branded in the underworld, I'd like to keep my integrity and respect thanks.

Again, unless it is made known publically that one is a snitch, he/she could very well continue to do buisness with drug dealers, and no retaliation could be possible. As I pointed out there is a system in place to protect the identity of snitches, at least in America.

 

[claire22]

I know I said I would leave, but I will take the same stand as vortex here. I will continue to reply but I will not respond to personal attacks as it does nothing for this thread. I seek only the debate and I appologies for my name calling. It is childish and as I said it does not serve this thread, it only serves one's self.
So please, whether you agree with myself and vortex or not, or whether you like us or not, stop the name calling and attacks. This thread was not started for that purpose. I will also note that it is against the BLUA and the DC rules. You may not respect me but you sure as hell should respect the rules of Bluelight.

I am not attacking you personally. I just found you very childish in an earlier post where you attacked lacey's grammar, and her ability as a moderator, simply because she disagreed with your outlook. If you read the rules yourself, you'd find that is also against the rules of BL. Bit of a contradiction, eh?

Again, unless it is made known publically that one is a snitch, he/she could very well continue to do buisness with drug dealers, and no retaliation could be possible. As I pointed out there is a system in place to protect the identity of snitches, at least in America.

Ah yes, the 'Witness Protection Program', quite the load of bullshit if you ask me. Whether you choose to believe it or not, there are copious amounts of police out there who will quite happily hand over details of the snitches, and there whereabouts, for a good buck. I've seen it, I know it, it happens very often. Not all crims have police in their back pocket, that is true. Maybe if you're lucky enough your guy won't have any, and you better hope he doesn't.

 

[delta_9]

I am not attacking you personally. I just found you very childish in an earlier post where you attacked lacey's grammar, and her ability as a moderator, simply because she disagreed with your outlook. If you read the rules yourself, you'd find that is also against the rules of BL. Bit of a contradiction, eh?

I wasn't reffering to you specifically. That was just for anyone who decides to flame or attack others in this thread.
And yes, it was childish of me, and I admit that, but I'm the only one who appologized.
For the record though it wasn't because she disagrees with me. I would've still felt the same way no matter what her point of view was. I happen to find the way she posts very difficult to read and I dont think it's much trouble to take the time to use real words and propper grammar.
However, lacey is free to post however she wishes and this is all I will say on that matter as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Ah yes, the 'Witness Protection Program', quite the load of bullshit if you ask me. Whether you choose to believe it or not, there are copious amounts of police out there who will quite happily hand over details of the snitches, and there whereabouts, for a good buck. I've seen it, I know it, it happens very often. Not all crims have police in their back pocket, that is true. Maybe if you're lucky enough your guy won't have any, and you better hope he doesn't.

Quite true. There are police out there who are corrupt and will do this exact thing, but I dont see how the nullifies the entire system. There are plenty of cases where it has been used sucessfully and will continue to be.
The drug world is not a perfect system either but from your posts I gather that you still support it. Could you explain why?

I dont know exactly why you assume I snitch or even associate myself with drug dealers as I said nothing of the sort. I happen to dislike seeing threads like this be completely 1 sided as vortex does, which is a big part of the reason I'm posting in this thread. I do believe in everything I've said though.

 

[claire22]

As I've said in many posts, I seek to gain my freedom and livelihood, this is only going down if that is on the line, I'm not a 'narc' (someone with a wire who often brings down dealers) or anything like that. I'm not 'on the their side', etc. I'm just self-interested and if my own freedom is on the line, I will attempt to keep it, with a lawyer present, knowing for certain if I snitch I will not face charges.

Okay, I do see your point with this. It's tempting to hand over names when the police are promising you a reduction. Is it worth it? There are differing opinions on this, most will say no. It is not a choice for many, they simply cannot hand over details without facing certain revenge from an angry dealer or their accomplices. I just truly can't see WHY you would want to do this. You just better hope they don't find out it was you mate, which most do, believe me.

What makes this acceptable? Hard to say, it is something in me that tells me that for the vast majority, drug users are innocent and don't deserve jail, and drug dealers do (I've outlined why I think this twice now). Is it acceptable in the drug dealing game? I don't think it is acceptable, but I also don't doubt it happens often enough between dealers who once swore by these rules when they were on top of the game, but once caught, broke them in a heart beat.

Why do you think dealers deserve criminal punishment whilst the users don't? Sorry mate, but it's basically all the same in the eyes of the law. Less punishment yes, but possession in general is a criminal offence. Once it's in your body they can't do shit all, that is true, but many dealers are also users supporting their habit. What makes you innocent and them not? If you disapprove of drug dealing as it is 'against the law', then why buy off them and support them? This doesn't make much sense to me mate.

Overall, I feel the 'don't snitch' mentality is there to protect dealers, but it does nothing to protect the users that I feel are innocent of committing injustices. And I'm just a user myself.

The 'don't snitch' mentality is there to protect EVERYONE. Even your own ass. If everyone held this same outlook, there would be fucking millions of people in jail. Do they deserve that? Do you want your money going toward people who probably wouldn't even be in jail if it weren't for people ratting them out for their own personal gain? Someone's gotta deal, you want the drugs you go to a dealer. Seems pretty ironic that you will use their service, but when it suits you you'll turn your back on them & get THEM into legal bullshit?

Finally, yeah, I don't like the rules, but I'm also as far removed from the game as possible. I've discovered legal alternatives that are quite effective, and at most I'll be buying a little weed here and there from a close friend who happens to have some, nothing to snitch about if caught, as I wouldn't be losing my freedom over a few grams, its not like I'd ever snitch out a friend either.

Well it seems like a good idea to remove yourself from the game if this is your method of getting out of legal trouble (and trust me, it won't solve much, if anything) It is unlikely you will be caught (I'm sure all the dealers in your area would be happy about this fact). Weed has very lenient laws as it is. It shouldn't make a difference about whether your dealer is a friend or not, either way they are doing you a favour and believe if caught you will not name names, almost like an unspoken promise in transaction. That's just how it is.

Good, legal, easily bought online alternatives = GBL, Kratom, Mephedrone, Nitrous Oxide, DXM. (don't use the last two anymore, mind you) You can even find Ketamine online if you look hard enough. There's many RCs and what not, we don't need to contribute to the illegal drug trade. And then I have the usual Alcohol and Tobacco and Caffeine, so yeah, its not like I'm even playing the game much anymore...So you guys really don't have to worry about me, specifically.

Alright, but did it ever occur to you these online websites are dealers too? If you're caught with them will you name where you got them? This IS contributing to the drug trade whether you like it or not, it's bought illicitly from a dealer, period. I am not worrying about you as it seems you are smart enough not to get in to deep with the criminal underworld. But be very, very wary about your actions. Nobody likes a rat, even though you haven't done so as of yet. We all have different opinions on this, and it is a touchy subject for some (like me). I guess it just depends on which level of illicit activities you are involved in, and who you are mixing with. I'll respect your opinion, even though I whole heartedly disagree with it, at least you came out with it and created a discussion and different angles of this issue and did not resort to personal attacks.

 

[delta_9]

Why do you think dealers deserve criminal punishment whilst the users don't? Sorry mate, but it's basically all the same in the eyes of the law. Less punishment yes, but possession in general is a criminal offence. Once it's in your body they can't do shit all, that is true, but many dealers are also users supporting their habit. What makes you innocent and them not? If you disapprove of drug dealing as it is 'against the law', then why buy off them and support them? This doesn't make much sense to me mate.

Very true, the law often sees these as very similar if not the same. However, in America it is the right and duty of the people to overthrow and disregard unjust laws. Drug laws, on the federal level, are unconstitutional in at least 2 ways, and do nothing but infinge upon the rights of you and I. Therefore, these laws must be disregarded and dismantled at all costs.

It shouldn't make a difference about whether your dealer is a friend or not, either way they are doing you a favour and believe if caught you will not name names, almost like an unspoken promise in transaction. That's just how it is.

As I pointed out, many drug dealers are in it for themselves and are not selling to "hook up their buddies" or do me favor. What about the dealers who stand in front of schools selling crack to children, are they doing those kids a favor? Should I not snitch on them?

 

[claire22]

Quite true. There are police out there who are corrupt and will do this exact thing, but I dont see how the nullifies the entire system. There are plenty of cases where it has been used sucessfully and will continue to be.
The drug world is not a perfect system either but from your posts I gather that you still support it. Could you explain why?

Of course it doesn't mean the whole system is corrupted, I just believe if you are caught you should face your own consequences, not drag someones elses ass into legal difficulty simply because you want maybe the tiniest tidbit off your charges. I've been involved in this world a long, long time. This is just how it is. Snitches aren't respected too much in this world, they are looked upon as scum, someone crosses the wrong person and the rest is history my friend. I don't know what you mean exactly about supporting the drug world? Re-word it and I'll answer.

I dont know exactly why you assume I snitch or even associate myself with drug dealers as I said nothing of the sort. I happen to dislike seeing threads like this be completely 1 sided as vortex does, which is a big part of the reason I'm posting in this thread. I do believe in everything I've said though.

I don't mean YOU snitch, I was basically using it as an example. The reason threads like this are one-sided is basically because many of us here on BL have had experience with drug dealers, or even been drug dealers. I was for many years. You must tread carefully with who you trust, who you associate with and what you say. In this world, as many have said, it is an unspoken agreement that if your ass is busted, you say nothing about anybody else involved. I think it's only fair that you pay the consequences, not somebody else for you. That isn't cool at all.

 

[claire22]

As I pointed out, many drug dealers are in it for themselves and are not selling to "hook up their buddies" or do me favor. What about the dealers who stand in front of schools selling crack to children, are they doing those kids a favor? Should I not snitch on them?

Of course man. Dealers aren't there to 'serve the public & their needs'. They want $$$! BUT! buying off them, you are choosing to support their business, no matter how illegal it may be. People dealing to kids - I don't agree with that. That is simply a crime against humanity and basically fucking up kids. If it is sold to consenting adults in a safe environment, I see no reason to rat them out. Your choice, your transaction.

 

[delta_9]

I don't know what you mean exactly about supporting the drug world? Re-word it and I'll answer.

Understandable. I would be happy to re-word it.
What I mean is that drug dealing/drug buying has it's "corruptions" similar to the corruptions in the police and other levels of government you spoke of. Those who are corrupt in the drug world are what you would call "snitches". They go against the "rules" much like police who take bribes and sell people out go against their rules.
Why are against one system with corruptions and not another? I can gather from your posts that you buy drugs, thus supporting a system in which you acknowledge that there are flaws and corruptions.
I'm not comparing the 2 exactly, of course there are differences, but I hope you can see the similarities.

You must tread carefully with who you trust, who you associate with and what you say.

THIS is an entirely true statement, and I think we can all agree on this.

 

[claire22]

Understandable. I would be happy to re-word it.
What I mean is that drug dealing/drug buying has it's "corruptions" similar to the corruptions in the police and other levels of government you spoke of. Those who are corrupt in the drug world are what you would call "snitches". They go against the "rules" much like police who take bribes and sell people out go against their rules.
Why are against one system with corruptions and not another? I can gather from your posts that you buy drugs, thus supporting a system in which you acknowledge that there are flaws and corruptions.
I'm not comparing the 2 exactly, of course there are differences, but I hope you can see the similarities.

Both have extreme flaws, but the reason I am more against the Legal issue of things is because police are put in a position of power & trust. They are legally bound to a contract stating they will uphold the law, being fair & just. Drug dealers are not put in such a serious position of power that they are expected under every circumstance to uphold. Underworld has no LEGAL rules, if you rip off a dealer they can't exactly send you to prison. Police on the other hand, yes they are humans and are no different to you & I (no matter what they may think) they are subjected to temptation. They are not perfect. But I believe it is really fucked up the way some deal with crimes. They will lie, steal..anything to get ahead and make some cash, whilst upholding a legal position of power and respect. The police system has always been flawed, that's a fact, and it is inevitable. I just think it is truly disgusting the way they are trusted and respected by the public, and many abuse this.

 

[delta_9]

Drug dealers are not put in such a serious position of power that they are expected under every circumstance to uphold.

True, drug dealers have taken no oath to protect the public, unlike police. However, as corrupt as some cops are(and yes there are many I understand that), there are good cops out there. Cops who save lives, cops who do heroic things and who put themselves at risk everyday to protect innocent people. Drug dealers have NEVER done anything of the sort and never will.
There is a NEED for police in our society, there is no need for drug dealers.

I just think it is truly disgusting the way they are trusted and respected by the public, and many abuse this.

Ah, something we agree on

 

[claire22]

True, drug dealers have taken no oath to protect the public, unlike police. However, as corrupt as some cops are(and yes there are many I understand that), there are good cops out there. Cops who save lives, cops who do heroic things and who put themselves at risk everyday to protect innocent people. Drug dealers have NEVER done anything of the sort and never will.
There is a NEED for police in our society, there is no need for drug dealers.

Yes of course there are good cops, but just as many bad ones unfortunately. The system will always have the good and the bad. Not all drug dealers are terrible people! Jeez dude I used to be one. I wouldn't rip off people, be a cunt or get them into tricky situations. In fact, I would treat them all with respect and stand up for people if they are being falsely accused or in similar trouble. Sure, there's cunty dealers out there. But dealers are people too, not soulless money makers.

 

[delta_9]

Yes of course there are good cops, but just as many bad ones unfortunately

I dont agree. I think if one were to examine ALL police officers/sheriffs/US marshals/federal agents/ect. in the US, the percent who are corrupt would be far less than the percent who are legit. But this is my opinion only, and I doubt I'd be able to find a study in which this is proven or disproven.
I also think the percent of people involved in drug distribution/importing/dealing/ect who are "bad" people would be FAR greater than those corrupt or "bad" police I mentioned.

 

[vortex30]

First, I want to say this discussion has gone from a disaster, to what I intended all along. Thanks, claire! The oxazepam is kicking in and I'm not really in the mood to make a long post, but if you like, I will respond to your post in about...18 hours or so, after some sleep and a day of skiing! :D

See how far we've come with no one insulting one another? I mean, no, we don't see eye-to-eye or anything, but there is now reasoning and listening and no put-downs. The put-downs were needless, far more can be achieved this way, my opinion actually has a chance of being swayed in this environment, so thanks for stepping in and taking the mature approach. I read your post, and see some really good points, so I'll respond tomorrow...Unfortunately right now I'm all and yawning and stuff, so I won't be able to think that well.

EDIT

Alright...This whole thing has surfaced in my dreams. READ THIS EVERYONE. It is weird, and I felt genuinely bad and killed myself for 'snitching'.

Alright, so the dream starts out with I guess me posting on Bluelight, maybe about snitching, who knows, and I get a phone from my mother and she has arrived at my university to see me for a night and take me out to dinner (in light of me recently being honest with her about drug use and mental issues). So we're near the car, just chatting, and she knows I've been off the weed for like, 23 days now, so asks about that, and I was like, yup, still clean. So she says, who exactly did you buy your drugs off? And I say, well, drug dealers of course. And she says, yeah, but WHO? So I argue for a bit, about how I won't tell her, but she is persistent.

What happens is I basically write down on a piece of paper for her, for some reason (legal contract? huh? huh?) that my two weed dealers are good friends of mine, there is no way you will get their names, but this one guy I know, he sell coke and he made this documentary. OK, that is one WEIRD dream twist, lol, I know who I was referring to, but he's never made a documentary, lol.

So I wasn't really expecting this fact to tip her off either, I guess, but I gave it for some reason. She says, aha, I've heard of this documentary, I will get the school to investigate and we're gonna bring him down. This guy is a very good guy, very nice to me, and I didn't intend to get him in trouble, I just gave a really dumb, non-existent clue...But he's going down right?

So I'm arguing with her in the car, you can't do this, he is a good guy, stuff like that. She won't give in, so I smack my mother in the back of the head 3-4 times and say, let me out I want out, jump out the car and run back to university. Things get weird, I try telling some buddies about how my mom is a dirty bitch and is gonna rat on this coke dealer, but they have to go eat dinner...Then I give this SHITTY presentation for some reason in the residence commons, which is like, totally not a classroom lol, and that was terrible.

So I go up the elevator to my room, ignore some calls from my mom, get hammered on beers, take all the Oxazepam I have (200mg about) and die.

Lol...So maybe I learned my lesson a bit through this dream. I felt genuinely horrible for leading to this guys demise. The only differences between this, and what would go down, is it was my mom, not the police, and I wasn't actually facing any jail time for not saying anything (but was being interrogated a bit I guess), and this guy in particular was one I wouldn't wish to snitch on, as he is a good guy and I consider him a friend, not a close friend, but a friend anyways. But still...It was fucking weird and I killed myself for snitching, lol, so maybe my position has changed a bit, because I felt genuinely bad about the whole thing (suicide...).

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

im surprised this trainwreck hasn't been closed yet

 

[delta_9]

Why not try contributing something to the debate?

 

[wArEhOuSePuNk]

Why not try contributing something to the debate?

because im watching paint dry.....