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The Belated Substance of the month! Synthetic Cannabinoids

Beenhead

Beenhead

Bluelight Crew
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Well, I must start by saying that I apologise for not doing the report last month. The end of the semester kicked my ass, and it has been crazy. I am done with school for the next few weeks and this is the first think I did when I had the chance.

By popular demand, I am going with the synthetic Cannabinoids. They are an interesting innovation, though there is one thing that is for sure. These things are not going to be legal for long. It is only a matter of time before someone gets arrested with what looks like marijuana, only to come back from the lab with one of these substances.

I think it goes without saying that people should respect these substances, and if people want to have a cannabis derivative, that is without the possibility of prosecution, take it easy.


It is quite interesting that there is an indole group in a couple of these two compounds. I have not found too much information on these compounds. I think it would be wise to be careful with these compounds, especially since there you dont know who synthesized these compounds. WIN 55,212-2 just looks suspicious to me. It looks a little more polar than the other compounds, and I dont know how that will play into a cannabinoid. I would love to see some information on this one, if anyone has any literature on these, please post them.

Have fun guys!









This is from Cegli
JWH-018 - First Time - Holy Shit, I'm dying (aka worst night ever)

bluedolphin's view
JWH-073 (smoked, oral) & JWH-018 (smoked) -- Impressions of a ganja lover


Gian PLanes' report
JWH-018 - semi-exp - multiple doses over a few days

JWH-018 - semi-exp - multiple doses over a few days

Matt Psy, who originally wanted this thread
WIN 55,212-2 - First Time - A fantastic cannabinoid



Indoledreamstudies always has a great story to tell!
CP 55,940 + 2C-B - First Time/Semi-Experienced - Exotic Recreation with CP5 and 2C-B


Ham-Milton's reports, I believe he was one of the first to discover these compounds here!
Spice Gold - Inexperienced - Reshaping the Legal High Landscape

Spice Gold -- Experienced -- Minor Warning



Metalismean
Spice Gold + tramadol + alcohol - semi-experianced - Gone!!!


180px-CP_55%2C940_chemical_structure.png
220px-JWH-018.svg.png
160px-WIN55212-2.svg.png




So lets talk about Synthetic Cannabinoids! It'll be fun!
 
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Does anyone have any reagent tests that can differentiate between the different JWH-* compounds?
 
You might be able to utilize solubility tests for some of these, as they seem to either have Ketones, or Alcohols


A little more research shows that the structure of the JWH compounds differs only by the length of the alkane chain? In this case I think it would be difficult to differentiate the two without some analytical balance. You could measure solubility in a polar compound, and the one with the longer alkane chain is going to be less soluble in that. Other than this difference they are very close to being identical.
 
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Any opinions from those experienced with two or more of the these compounds regarding which produces the most psychedelic effects? For those that have only used one compound but have used different routes of administration, do you notice any differences in the degree of psychedelic effects the way many do with smoked v. oral cannabis? Is there any reason to suspect that the metabolism of these compounds by different routes might find some kind of delta-9/delta-11 analogy with cannabis?

The idea of a cannabinoid that is significantly more psychedelic than cannabis intrigues me, particularly one that has less couch-lock and short term memory effects.
 
Thanks Beenhead! I have only tried JWH-018 myself, and my technique for vaporizing it was bad, and I only had a couple of milligrams on foil, so I didn't get full effects. I found it nice and light... there was zero anxiety, whereas marijuana can give me some anxiety. It was more two-dimensional than cannabis, but still quite nice. I'd love to try some more of them but I won't be able to buy any drugs for a good long time so I'll just have to read about them or find someone to let me try some. Given that I have never met anyone in person who even knows what Bluelight is, and have only met one person ever who even knows what 2C-B is, probably the most well-known exotic sort of compound, I doubt that'll happen.
 
Beenhead said:
Ham-Milton's reports, I believe he was one of the first to discover these compounds here!
Spice Gold - Inexperienced - Reshaping the Legal High Landscape

Spice Gold -- Experienced -- Minor Warning

Metalismean
Spice Gold + tramadol + alcohol - semi-experianced - Gone!!!
Click to expand...
If we're including the unknown but suspected synthetic cannabinoids in proprietary smoking blends like Psychedeli's Spice and Organicworx's Smoke, then I can say a couple of things about these. I've just this day received some alleged JWH-018 (sold as such from a new source, over which some have expressed purity doubts), but have not yet tried it; so I've not had any confirmed JWHs, but I have smoked Spice extensively and, more recently, Smoke.

I was immediately impressed by Spice, but not as being like cannabis. It didn't occur to me that there might be a cannabinoid in it, and I was surprised to read people suggesting it. What impressed me about Spice was that it (just) satisfied my dependency on cannabis. In other words, I could quite easily put up with not having cannabis when I had Spice, whereas I could not so easily when I didn't.

The effects of Spice on me seemed calming (placating, almost), in the sense that addiction-relief is calming whether or not the addicted-to substance is intrinsically calming or stimulating. That made me wonder if it was acting on something downstream of the cannabinoid receptors, maybe activating something (dopaminergic, perhaps, since that mediates addiction?) indirectly activated by cannabis. In higher doses, this was accompanied by stimulation and some confusion, and uncomfortable pressure in the forehead: a sense that blood was pulsing too forcefully or copiously through my veins. Not pleasant at all. At one point (following simultaneous and foolishly excessive use of Spice, Methylone, and BZP) this sensation returned whenever I took a drag of a tobacco cigarette, even if I avoided Spice, for a week or two.

Smoke is, for me, an entirely different kettle of fish. This immediately impressed me as a genuine cannabis alternative. This time, I was quite confident my cannabinoid receptors were being tickled. Not the same as cannabis; somewhat less pushy as regards laughter-induction (almost as if it were exerting cannabinoid reuptake inhibition? - it amplified but didn't generate so much the laughter), and on the psychedelic side of cannabis' spectrum of effects, both in terms of cognition (perhaps slightly less so) and perception. A very definite visual texture and luminance enhancement, on a par with low dose phenethylamine psychedelics perhaps. Nice somatosensory effects, pretty much on a par with cannabis: my body feels good, on it. But not particularly sedating, I think. Considerably less confusion than Spice, and perhaps than cannabis.

Smoke has some odd effects on me when I smoke a copious quantity and then go to bed with a view to sleeping. Cannabis does (in recent years) too, though not necessarily identically. It's hard to recall, because these things happen generally when I'm so near sleep I'm not encoding memories very well. But last night, for instance, after smoking a fair bit of Smoke, I experienced distinct auditory hallucinations (distorted whoopy voices, with content, not my own), and a sense that I was about to die, and neither of these (particularly the latter) are particularly uncommon. Real panic rarely accompanies these sensations, but does sometimes; and sitting up and sipping some water generally makes me feel fine for a while (although I don't feel dehydrated).

Aside from concerns about the unknown safety profile of whatever's in Smoke, I wouldn't switch back to cannabis until and unless I had a convenient and significantly cheaper source of cannabis than Smoke, which at the moment I do not.

I'll probably have more thoughts on these that I'll add later (if thoughts are wanted on these unspecified suspected cannabinoid blends).
 
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I have to agree, I think that Smoke itself probably contains 018, whereas I think now that Spice is another in the series.

I just pray to god that the hydrocarbon JWH's. Things like 018 seems risky enough (cancer-wise) that the idea of 171 showing up scares the hell out of me.
 
[Copied, with more context, from a post in a 2C-C TR, 'cos I think it may be relevant here.]

I had a frankly quite frightening experience the other day, when on a 2C-C (54mg oral) come-up, having been smoking Organicworx' Smoke (possible synthetic cannabinoid) and a fair amount of cannabis. I experienced painful increase in perceived heart rate and very worrying stimulation. Whether I was experiencing direct physical effects of something or having a panic attack or both, I don't know, but it scared the shit out of me. (Never had anything like it before, on or off drugs.)

At the time I attributed it to the 2C-C's come-up. Then I considered that maybe cannabis had amplified 2C-C's effects. I now think this has very little to do with 2C-C (except inasmuch as how I perceived the experience), and more to do with cannabis combined with (suspected) synthetic cannabinoids. I have just had (indeed it hasn't quite gone yet - just had to stop typing and go lie down, may have to again soon) a milder, but qualitatively very similar experience, on just a small amount of cannabis, Organicworx' Smoke, and tobacco mixed in a joint.

The nature of the experience is perceived increase in heart rate and the fierceness with which it's beating, perceived temperature rise and pressure/ache in the temples, and a general rush and hyperalertness.

I haven't had it at all today when just smoking Smoke; and when I had a little joint of just cannabis and tobacco earlier I was fine. It's conceivable I've just developed a weird sensitivity to cannabis (I'll have to try smoking just cannabis to see), but I suspect this may be an interaction between the two cannabinoids, cannabis and whichever JWH (if any) is in Smoke.

I should say that I had combined these two (Smoke and cannabis) once or twice in the past, to no ill effect, albeit with only quite small amounts of Smoke. On both these more recent occasions with the nasty effects, I had been smoking Smoke a fair amount through the day up to that point.

ETA: The symptoms on this occasion developed about five minutes after finishing the joint (perhaps 10 minutes after starting), and have perhaps mostly faded now, about twenty minutes later, although my temples are still somewhat pulsy.
 
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I am running out of Ideas here for this, But I enjoy the thread. Is there any subject that you might want to throw back? I have really only done obscure topics, and nothing popular like LSD or DMT. I could also do a throwback from something we have talked about, but you might think we could touch on again!
 
After reading the "bad trip" reports about JWH-018 and Gaian Planes' report that it had exhibited a dark side he didn't see in JWH-073 I decided to get a hold of JWH-018. It's danger intrigued me.

I've used it a few times now and I've found it similar to high grade sativa. I like it. But I took it higher tonight and got a chance to experienced its perfidiousness.

During the peak I would feel stabs of implausible self-doubt amid a flurry of manic ideas. Even though the conveyances of these thoughts were implausible, they were forceful--forceful in a way indistinguishable from what I feel during times when I know doubt is justified. I was forced to repeatedly explain to myself why these feelings were implausible, and they all were, in order to gain relief. It was a valuable exercise in identifying purely self-defeating ways of thinking that are emotionally disguised as correspondent with reality. After a while at this, and after recognizing the value of the exercise, I listened to a song. While listening, I started beaming with euphoria. I still feel good writing this.

I hope that this deceptive quality of JWH-018 continues to grow in strength in proportion to the dose for me. Perhaps, for both myself and others, it can be used to temper the defenses of self-conviction.
 
this article in a german online newspaper claims that besides JWH-018, also the synthetic cannabinoid CP 47,497 is used in "spice". unfortunately, they don't mention sources, nor do they say in which brands of "spice" it was found.

already several days ago, sabine bätzing, wo is responsible for drug laws in germany, claimed in a tv interview that there was another synthetic cannabinoid found in spice, but she didn't want to say which one to be "one step ahead in the rabbit-hedgehog game" of illegalization. spice will be made illegal with the first of february in germany.
 
The long duration of Spice would seem to suggest not just JWH-018 (or indeed JWH-073, right?) if what I've read of the durations of these chemicals is right. OrganicWorx's Smoke (or the psychedeli's Genie) have a duration more in line with the short reported durations of these JWHs (I also personally find them a lot more pleasant and cannabis-like than Spice).
 
today the finding of a "slightly modified version of CP 47,497" in "spice" has been confirmed by the university of freiburg in germany and the german federal crime bureau. the claim that this cannabinoid seems to be the main active principle. they also confirmed the finding of JWH-018, but not in all tested brands, and sometimes only in low concentration. JWH-018 seems to be the main active principle in several products imitating "spice", though, for example "smoke".

source (unfortunately in german only):
http://bka.de/pressemitteilungen/2009/pm090119.html
http://www.pr.uni-freiburg.de/pm/2009/pm.2009-01-19.19/
 
invert said:
The long duration of Spice would seem to suggest not just JWH-018 (or indeed JWH-073, right?)
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where do you get the JWH-073 thing from? the finding of JWH-018 has been confirmed several times now.

invert said:
if what I've read of the durations of these chemicals is right. OrganicWorx's Smoke (or the psychedeli's Genie) have a duration more in line with the short reported durations of these JWHs (I also personally find them a lot more pleasant and cannabis-like than Spice).
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there is one analysis of "genie" that has found about 2 % of JWH-018 in it, so it is indeed likely that this is the main chemical in there. "smoke" has even 3 % JWH-018.
 
I think I am leaving this open for the next three days,because some interesting conversation has come up finally, and I am going to start mid January/Februarys Substance of the month is going to be 4-ACO-MiPT. I will also write a Trip Report, oddly enough, my first ever!!!
 
After playing with 073 and 018 for the last few weeks, I definitely prefer 073. I find it much warmer, fuller and friendlier. 018 is just too easy to go overboard on and fall into a pit of paranoia. 018 also produced more in the way of annoying side-effects for me - racing heartbeat, anxiety and the like.

I have also been noticing a lot of aural distortions whilst using 018 too. Nothing major, but noticable. A warping and twisting of sound, especially after a larger dose. Not something that I've really noticed before on either 073 or the organic variety.

I wouldn't go out of my way to acquire more 018, but definitely enjoyed 073 and would probably jump at the chance of that. I found 073 to be nearer to the real thing and just downright enjoyable, whereas 018 can be a bit too edgy for me.
 
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