The Big & Dandy Ego Death Thread

[white_magic]

Ego death

I searched for a big&dandy thread about ego death, but couldn't find one. I also am not a first time tripper, so I thought this deserved its own thread.

Anyway, I have the following questions about ego death:

1) What do you do? I expect most to say, "you do nothing, just go with the flow". But I imagine that part of it is at least clearing your mind of fear? So do you, ego-death trippers, ever have to consciously accept or ignore (treat as insignificant) the perceived thought that your trip could last forever or indefinitely, as time, as a familiar real-world element disappears? Is that even a common thought?

If so, then is your immediate next thought, the realization that you'll have to face yourself, and, possibly, your inner demons, indefinitely?

2) How does experiencing an ego death help you find the 'true' you? To me it seems that it helps you start from 'further back', maybe not from scratch, but it allows you to mold yourself into a NEW, a BETTER you. Let's say, a more driven, a more productive you. Maybe more of a straight-arrow you (like quitting other drugs). But not a more true you. How do you know that the new you is more true? You don't. If you found yourself different after the trip and argue it's for the better, then you're still the one who decided to shape yourself accordingly. Unless you met a deity/spirit in your trip and it told you to do that. Which gets into the metaphysical. And, can someone correct me, but is an ego death usually not accompanied by an interaction with a supernatural entity?

3) If you're an experienced tripper, how many times do you consciously trip with ego death in mind? If you do so, then why? Is ego death like an acquired taste? If it ultimately becomes pleasant, then is it because you learn something new every time?

Also, make note that I have not experienced ego death, but an extreme loss of values and relevance, nevertheless.

 

[tycone]

i noticed you talking about personal thoughts and emotions, when you reach a full ego death, their wont be a 'you'

 

[the_ketaman]

^^Exactly, I was a bit confused when I read the thread contents.

I dont think ive ever had a trip where me ego wasnt dissolved except for maybe sub-visual doses of acid and maybe 2C-I.

I am usually in be bed with my eyes closed and my earplugs in or im out somewhere looking deep into the sky. Usually sitting in the same spot for the whole time. It has never worried or scared me it just happens. I have experienced entity contact during ego death. Im xannied up heaps ay Ill write back later this info prolly isnt too helpful or interesting.

 

[kamikaze__]

Yea...what tycone said...there shouldnt be a "you" with full ego death

There have only been 3 drugs that caused full ego death for me

K- Most of the time when i k-hole the only emotions throught my mind are euphoria and confusion. I get to the point where there is nothing you can "tell yourself to do" ie. go with the flow or resist. All i know is the present and that "i" am possibly "dead" (by this time, i have no recollection of those 2 concepts, only that this situation is a possibility).

Salvia- This trip is FARRRR too intense and hectic to be able to make any sense of if you reach breakthrough doses. All you can do is go along for the ride (by this point you have even less of an idea of the previous reality and all earthly ideas than while K-holing)

Mushrooms- Ive had one trip where i achieved true ego death. It was a very scary circular-logic type trip where everything i thought of reached the same terrifying conclusion. Every time i looked at my body i didnt know what it was or where i was.

Basically, by the point you reach ego death, there is no "i" to be conciously deciding what to do with the situation. The confusion and mindfuck is much too overwhelming to be actually considering "options", an idea which is also long-gone by then. Your entire reality and set of ideas revolves around the current situation.

I find ego-death pretty scary (except sometimes on ketamine), but once i sober up a little and realize what just happened i am left in a state of amazement and awe. After going through such a terrifying ordeal, im usually ecstatic to simply be alive . So far, i havent gained any specific "insights" into my own life, but i still find ego-death useful because it made me appreciate my own life a little more.

 

[Propyl Power]

Ego death/dissolution has never been anything but blissful and beautiful for me. I already maintain a constant awareness of the ego's illusory nature anyway, so how could it be anything but an affirmation and higher integration of what I'm continuously, consciously tapped into?

To offer a metaphor, your true nature is pure light, and your ego is something like a crystal that traps and refracts that light, coaxing it into a specific wavelength... stop clinging to this crystallized node and dissolve back into light...

None of this is real anyway, there's nothing to lose, so what are you afraid of?

Gratitude may be the best antidote for fear.

 

[white_magic]

Well, when I talk about finding a more 'true' you, I mean what others say in retrospect. They say, "ever since I experienced ego death, I found the true inner me, etc, etc". I understand that when you're experiencing ego death, it's such an experience of its own that you're not really looking for any more 'you's', or are necessarily even capable of doing so.

K- Most of the time when i k-hole the only emotions throught my mind are euphoria and confusion. I get to the point where there is nothing you can "tell yourself to do" ie. go with the flow or resist. All i know is the present and that "i" am possibly "dead" (by this time, i have no recollection of those 2 concepts, only that this situation is a possibility).

So arguably, you can't be afraid of it anymore, at that point. But before it becomes just a possibility, while the 'I' or 'dead' are still not entirely alien or forgotten concepts, wouldn't it be imperative to consciously calm yourself down and ignore that point altogether?

What I'm trying to do at this is see if it's possible to prepare for an ego death. I don't think the set & setting are ideal for me at this point and I don't think they have been, either, so I've never taken high doses of anything. But almost every time I've gotten a passing idea that the rabbit hole goes verrrrrrrry deep. Even at my usually medium or low doses, I've sometimes found myself unprepared. At the same time, I feel like I have learned from the few trips I've taken. At the very least, I thank 2C-E for opening a gateway in thinking.

But I'm not sure how useful an ego death is, in general. If you lose your ego and are lying catatonic, physically and mentally, then what kind of conclusions or realizations can you make?

I find ego-death pretty scary (except sometimes on ketamine), but once i sober up a little and realize what just happened i am left in a state of amazement and awe. After going through such a terrifying ordeal, im usually ecstatic to simply be alive . So far, i havent gained any specific "insights" into my own life, but i still find ego-death useful because it made me appreciate my own life a little more.

You know, that's how I felt after my few 5-MeO-DMT trips (even if 'over there' was utter chaos and madness, and I was not lying catatonic (could walk around as though in a dream)). But, after such intense trips, even if mine wasn't an ego death, many times I find myself functioning less here and instead wondering about other dimensions, and possibilities, making me far less productive here.

None of this is real anyway, there's nothing to lose, so what are you afraid of?

Set & setting aren't there yet. I call this my R&D.

 

[Propyl Power]

But I'm not sure how useful an ego death is, in general. If you lose your ego and are lying catatonic, physically and mentally, then what kind of conclusions or realizations can you make?

One is not catatonic. You don't need your ego to experience or comprehend. If anything it is a barrier, or a filter, to deeper sources of information and light. You need to shed it, like a crusty old snake skin, if you are to evolve and move deeper into being.

 

[Tsukasa]

It happens to me quite often on Salvia trips. It was quite terrifying at first. I started meditating all day every day to observe my ego and find out why i'm so attached to it. Found the attraction i've had to it and aknowledged it, and then tinkered with my emotions of desire and the ego itself until I was able to make it my slave. As long as I don't forget, I can do salvia and stay calm while experiencing those temporary ego dissolutions.

 

[kamikaze__]

The "fear" i sometimes feel during a k-hole isnt the normal human fear. When something scares someone, it is because a situation poses danger to "themself". While k-holing, the emotion is completely alien and i can only call it fear because that is the closest thing i can compare it to. It usually comes from the fact that i cant remember anything from the past and my "entity" is in a completely foreign universe in a total and utter confusion about how long this has been a reality, how long it will stay a reality etc. What i mean when i said "i" am possibly "dead" is that those are passing thoughts that last fractions of a second and are not even in the English language, like thoughts are while sober.

 

[jamaica0535]

My only real experience with ego death was my 2nd salvia trip, but to an extent every saliva trip where i have broken through has had some degree of ego death...

I was thrown into an abyss with only an infinitely long system of interconnected triangles made of candy canes and people.... I existed in this void without a body, without thoughts or emotions. there was no "me", i just existed in some intangible form...

 

[Ismene]

I always thought "ego-death" was just some bullshit theory that Leary came up with in the 1960's when he wrote "The psychedelic experience" and was trying to attach some religious import to psychedelics. I've never thought psychedelics cause ego death - whatever ego death is supposed to mean.

 

[Tsukasa]

^ Ego is your sense of identity. When you don't know where or what you are you've lost sense of identity, and it feels like you don't exist.

 

[Inzo]

Even though ego death is possible i dont get how someone can COMPLETELY feel like they dont exist. I've done DMT several dozen times and even though most of those times produced what i think to be ego death experiences I had a little part of me still aware that this is just a drug causing this and i do really exist and by little part i mean a very little part in my brain telling myself this is the drug and it will all be over in a minute. is that not ego death? I mean if you are unaware of yourself how can you be aware of ego death. How can you know what is going on and how can you know if you had an ego death experience is the first place? In my DMT experiences i was aware of what was happening. Like 99% of my mind is gone but 1% is still aware of whats going on. That may have to do with my willingness to let go i guess? I have no idea

 

[Inzo]

Even though ego death is possible i dont get how someone can COMPLETELY feel like they dont exist. I've done DMT several dozen times and even though most of those times produced what i think to be ego death experiences I had a little part of me still aware that this is just a drug causing this and i do really exist and by little part i mean a very little part in my brain telling myself this is the drug and it will all be over in a minute. is that not ego death? I mean if you are unaware of yourself how can you be aware of ego death. How can you know what is going on and how can you know if you had an ego death experience is the first place? In my DMT experiences i was aware of what was happening. Like 99% of my mind is gone but 1% is still aware of whats going on. That may have to do with my willingness to let go i guess? I have no idea

 

[malakaix]

The "fear" i sometimes feel during a k-hole isnt the normal human fear. When something scares someone, it is because a situation poses danger to "themself". While k-holing, the emotion is completely alien and i can only call it fear because that is the closest thing i can compare it to. It usually comes from the fact that i cant remember anything from the past and my "entity" is in a completely foreign universe in a total and utter confusion about how long this has been a reality, how long it will stay a reality etc. What i mean when i said "i" am possibly "dead" is that those are passing thoughts that last fractions of a second and are not even in the English language, like thoughts are while sober.

I get that exact same fear.. i cant even describe what i am fearful of.. i just know i 'am'.. you couldn't of summed it up any better.. its usually the point of beyond this 'subconscious fear' that i enter ego death.. and from there on outwards tend to rebuilding myself.

 

[white_magic]

//kinda of a rant-ish post follows..

I have to say, that's the place where I found myself, thanks to 5-meo-dmt. I was certainly afraid of what was around me.. which was absolute and utter chaos and madness. And the only thought going through my mind is that NOW I HAVE DONE IT!!. FOREVER HERE AND NOW. I LOST EVERYTHING.

And, of course, there were components to it that I can't put into words. It was insane. Ridiculous. And after it was done the first time, I was absolutely glowing after realizing that I actually came back here, where everything has relative structure.

I'm still trying to make sense of it, even though a few months have passed. If ego death comes as violently as what I experienced (which wasn't likely ego death because I could still walk around and talk) on 5-meo, then I'm not sure if it's worth at all pursuing, considering the potential for some horrible aftereffects, like me walking up an incline for 10 days straight following my 2nd and last 5-meo-dmt trip.

And while we're on it, is there any correlation between ego death and hppd?

Anyway, I do acknowledge that the terrible aftereffects from 5-meo were due to many things I didn't do properly, among them, clearing my mind before taking that huge hit, rolling with it when it comes (but you can't really ever prepare for the freebase 5-meo rush.. I don't think anyone can), and STAYING GROUNDED in a physical sense.

I think if I tripped again, even on 5-meo, I would likely have an entirely different trip since I feel that I've become a lot more stable and grounded mentally even in the span of a few months, but I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to test that theory. I'm really not a superstitious or even a religious person, but you know the saying, "third time's a charm".. well I think that since the aftereffects of each 5-meo trip were progressively worse, I almost feel like I'd be playing Russian roulette for no good reason, at least when it comes to 5-meo.

As for other psychs, I can take it more easy with them, but I've been seeing some very strange things when I go to sleep. This happens about 1 out of 10 nights. What happens is that when I close my eyes, I get some very vivid and clear images, mostly static, but sometimes animated. They can only be categorized as absolutely strange and out of place. They seem to have no correlation. I see people, animals/strange entities (for example, people with contorted or half-missing faces, or I recall seeing a digit 5 or 6 that was walking or.. doing something? I know this makes no sense).

Also, yesterday I had the strangest vision. Some sort of dark and evil presence was in my room (somewhat like Aku from that cartoon 'Samurai Jack'). It could have been very scary, but I think I've gotten better at handling this kind of stuff, so I just accepted it, and kind of went to sleep.

Note that before taking psychedelics I had only once had these certifiably random and arguably discomforting visions, but I did used to see visions of infinitely large things evolving to infinitely small things (like from a grain of sand to the desert, and vice versa, ad infinitum).

What worries me is whether this was precipitated by psychedelics, because if so, then maybe it's a sign that I should abstain from them altogether.

 

[Ismene]

^ Ego is your sense of identity. When you don't know where or what you are you've lost sense of identity, and it feels like you don't exist.

Yeah I get the idea but all I can say is I've been extremely high on psychedelic drugs but I've still always had a sense of who I am. If a 65 year old bloke came in while I was peaking on LSD and said "Suck my cock" I'd still have enough sense of identity to tell him to fuck off. Wouldn't you?

 

[Propyl Power]

white_magic, I think that maybe you're having problems dealing with ego dissolution because your introduction to it (5-meo) was with the single most screamingly intense, reality obliterating, ego shredding psychedelic known to man. (well except for Salvia). It has a track record for causing post-traumatic stress syndrome like symptoms in the reckless and/or unprepared!

Try some moderate doses of more user friendly psychedelics and work your way into the territory. You may be overwhelmed and intimidated because you're trying to do advanced work before you've graduated from Tripping Skills 101...

And I agree with you Ismene, no matter how far out I am there always seems to be a little sliver of my earthbound identity acting as a tether and reference point. Complete "ego death" would probably preclude the possibility of remembering anything of the experience.

 

[quzmic]

Salvinorin A is the only substance that causes TRUE ego death. With dissociatives like K, or strong psychedelics like DMT, you still aware that somewhere you has your body. During Salvia expirience you completely forget your ego, all your knowledge about humanity, planet Earth etc, but you still have some sort consciousness.

 

[B9]

Yeah I get the idea but all I can say is I've been extremely high on psychedelic drugs but I've still always had a sense of who I am. If a 65 year old bloke came in while I was peaking on LSD and said "Suck my cock" I'd still have enough sense of identity to tell him to fuck off. Wouldn't you?

Generally yes I'd have enough sense to tell him to fuck off - there are times when language/everything ceases to make sense & you are kinda "something else" & in that situation I think I'd just be looking blankly puzzled 8(