Expert slams ecstasy downgrading

tekkeN said:
it doesn't make sense that speed is class B, yet E, which isn't addictive, is class A.. its just because of all the negative news reporting in the 90's.. virtually all E related deaths are down to mixing with other drugs, yet they are still used in stats as death from MDMA :X
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I did not know that. I thought that once the files had been reviewed by a health official or made open to the public, the stats would have then been corrected. The only residue would have been the millions of viewers with skewed interpetations of E related deaths and their already faulty understanding of the drug itself...

Either way, the damage is done.
 
Decriminalization/legalization of Ecstasy would increase purity of consumed products, because it would be legal to produce. Therefore, people wouldn't be taking any sort of amphetamines and/or other drugs when all they want is Ecstasy, which is fairly harmless on its own. Can you see where I'm going? People are going to keep taking the drug anyway, so if we legalize/regulate or decriminalize it, there LESS drug overdoses, LESS death related to E. (due to the absence of other more harmful drugs.) Anyone who doesn't want that is out of their mind, IMHO.

In addition, legalization would be conducive to the production of more literature on harm reduction and education about safe use of E.

I've never even taken E, don't know if I will; but regardless, these are my opinions due to my knowledge of the drug.
 
5th most dangerous? shit like this actully makes me angry. governments who ever the fuck enforces these rules absoutly have no first hand knowledge of what E is exactly like. they just presume its a drug that if you take its goin to kill you in one pill and thats it.
loada fucken balls.
ecstasy is the best drug in my opinion in the world the feelings are amazin and its NOT a dangerous drug if its used in the correct way.
ecstasy has been proven to better peoples lives back in its legal days
from my knowledge in the UK 246 people have died from ecstasy in the past 4 years.
400,000 people die EACH year from tobacco.
so how can they seriously say ecstasy is an extremly dangerous drug?
 
Sad part is the statistics they get are mainly just random observations when it comes down to it, imagine if they actually TOOK the drug and understood what the mechanics were.

They might change their mind about MDMA then :D
 
Its all about money ..they make money from tobacco ..so they can care less wether people smoke or not ..
 
While I don't agree with putting drugs in a "class" and locking people up for using, everything I've ever read/seen/heard about MDMA suggests that not enough is known about the long-term effects to say it's safe. People who use it are like guinea pigs in a sense, and it's one of the drugs that can be classified as neurotoxic, unlike cannabis, opiates and many hallucinogens.

Does it kill people? Rarely. Does it have the potential to harm parts of your brain? Yes, especially with frequent or heavy use. When we talk about the "dangers" of drug use, most people jump immediately to death. The truth is, death isn't the only danger that exists with drug use: memory loss, HPPD, exacerbation of depression/anxiety/psychosis, and physical effects like overheating, hypertension, and overdose are all possibilities that don't necessarily lead to death, but make ecstasy a drug that should be taken only by well-informed adults who are willing to take that chance, and only in moderation (EXTREME moderation for some). Add to the risks mentioned above the fact that ecstasy is very rarely pure MDMA and often contains adulterants, and you up the ante.

I'm not anti-ecstasy or anything, but a majority of the people I see using it do it too frequently to have any say in the "scientific" discussion of the safety of ecstasy. If something is your drug of choice AND you abuse it and try to claim that it's as safe as water when studies are inconclusive and no long-term studies (30+ years) have affirmed this sentiment, people recognize that bias and aren't going to take you seriously.

(As for ranking drugs on a scale of 1-to-"dangerous" and calling ecstasy "the 5th most dangerous", that doesn't sound very scientifically accurate to me. How is something like "danger" even calculated or quantified? The fact that we know so little about the adverse effects of long term ecstasy use means that, while it can't be called "safe", it can't be labeled as "the 5th most dangerous", either.)
 
tekkeN said:
it doesn't make sense that speed is class B, yet E, which isn't addictive, is class A.. its just because of all the negative news reporting in the 90's.. virtually all E related deaths are down to mixing with other drugs, yet they are still used in stats as death from MDMA :X
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I agree that ecstasy and speed should be in the same class. But are you saying that speed (amphetamine) is addictive yet
methylenedioxymethamphetamine is not?
I'm going to call a bullshit there dude.
 
stonedandrolling89 said:
Fuck yes. I couldn't agree with you more. I would give you a big plurry fucking hug right now if I could, since I am rolling at the moment and all. =D8o=D

I could not have said it better, although I take MDMA one to two times a month these days, after going through a binge of eating pills for a little over a year. I couldn't roll for TWO YEARS, no matter how many beans/how much molly I dropped, and everyone else would be rolling balls and I'd just be moderately happy and a little tweaky and a little sleepy.

Finally, this year, I dropped again...and THE MAGIC WAS BACK, AND THAT MAGIC IS STAYING BACK! I space out my experiences in order to let my head level out and to keep from losing the ability to feel the light and love and life that MDMA induces.

Now, I personally use MDMA, along with other hallucinogens, as tools to delve inside and become one with everyone and everything. It holds a really dear place in my heart and is what got me to see what opiates, cocaine, and benzos were doing to me. I have done opiates, cocaine, and benzos since, so I'm not saying MDMA is something to per say, cure addiction. It is a beautiful molecule that causes the most amazing release of neurotransmitters, it makes you feel amazing, and it's just wonderful, and to top it all off, it's an empathogen/entactogen. "Touching within", as Shulgin put it. It will show you many things and you can gain many tools through the experience, and if you choose to, you can bring these things back with you and apply them to your life...And to say that alcohol is a better drug than ecstasy...are you out your damn mind? %)

So, as I see that I've wrote a book here, I'm going to close it up.

<3<3<3I LUHS YOU BLUELIGHT!<3<3<3

much peace, much love, much unity, and much respect.

stonedandrolling89 =D8o=D
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Im sure your having tons of life experiences popping Es and browsing the internet
 
Lady Codone said:
While I don't agree with putting drugs in a "class" and locking people up for using, everything I've ever read/seen/heard about MDMA suggests that not enough is known about the long-term effects to say it's safe. People who use it are like guinea pigs in a sense, and it's one of the drugs that can be classified as neurotoxic, unlike cannabis, opiates and many hallucinogens.

Does it kill people? Rarely. Does it have the potential to harm parts of your brain? Yes, especially with frequent or heavy use. When we talk about the "dangers" of drug use, most people jump immediately to death. The truth is, death isn't the only danger that exists with drug use: memory loss, HPPD, exacerbation of depression/anxiety/psychosis, and physical effects like overheating, hypertension, and overdose are all possibilities that don't necessarily lead to death, but make ecstasy a drug that should be taken only by well-informed adults who are willing to take that chance, and only in moderation (EXTREME moderation for some). Add to the risks mentioned above the fact that ecstasy is very rarely pure MDMA and often contains adulterants, and you up the ante.

I'm not anti-ecstasy or anything, but a majority of the people I see using it do it too frequently to have any say in the "scientific" discussion of the safety of ecstasy. If something is your drug of choice AND you abuse it and try to claim that it's as safe as water when studies are inconclusive and no long-term studies (30+ years) have affirmed this sentiment, people recognize that bias and aren't going to take you seriously.

(As for ranking drugs on a scale of 1-to-"dangerous" and calling ecstasy "the 5th most dangerous", that doesn't sound very scientifically accurate to me. How is something like "danger" even calculated or quantified? The fact that we know so little about the adverse effects of long term ecstasy use means that, while it can't be called "safe", it can't be labeled as "the 5th most dangerous", either.)
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If only everyone understood this. Very well said <3
 
Both sides are wrong if you ask me.

The anti-drug side is wrong in saying ecstasy is extremely dangerous. Ecstasy use may be unhealthy, but the actual danger of death or injury from MDMA use is pretty close to zero.

The pro-drug side is wrong in saying ecstasy is harmless. Yes it may cause less deaths than other drugs, but it has a high potential for abuse, and the stress it puts on your psyhe is much more pronounced than most drugs.

I dont see any resolution to the issue until we get some sanity on both sides of the argument.
 
shepj said:
I agree that ecstasy and speed should be in the same class. But are you saying that speed (amphetamine) is addictive yet
methylenedioxymethamphetamine is not?
I'm going to call a bullshit there dude.
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So if 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine (MDMA) is addictive cos it has the term methylamphetamine/methamphetamine in it, is 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine also addictive then? Cos I've never heard of anyone addicted to DOM myself. I'm certainly no chemist, but I should think there are lots of chemicals that have methylamphetamine as part of their structure, doesn't mean that they are necessarily addictive.

Personally, I've never known anyone who was addicted to MDMA and I've been using it for 15 years. I'm sure there must be some people who are as I have heard they exist. Could it be that they were addicted to the speed/meth that's often found in pills instead? No idea. But I just can't see how you could really become addicted to the stuff. You can only really binge for a few days before it stops working and you need to take a break anyway. At least that's the case with me and those that I've known. I'll use it 2 or 3 days running max but mostly just one night and then leave it for a while. I can have grams of MDMA crystal lying around for weeks without feeling the need to use it. Speed is gone within the night. Speed's definitely has addictive potential, but I really don't see it in MDMA at all myself.
 
I agree with Shambles. Just because MDMA has an amphetamine structure in its molecule, means absolutely nothing about its addiction potential. It is not methamphetamine.

A good example is DOM, as stated above.
 
I am educated and experienced and will be the first to say the MDMA is a very dangerous and harmful drug. It should not be class A but it is way more harmful than alcohol and tobacco which is saying alot considering I am a harsh critic of ethanol use.

Certainly not a drug that I would like to see legalized outside of a medical context and I am an avid raver/DJ. It ruins alot of kids.
 
Ok i'm going to make this plain and simple. Everyone look up "your brain on ecstacy" It will show you how all the serotonin is released and some dopamine.

My point is that yes people can become messed up from E. But your abusing it when you get to that point. You dont need to go to a rave every month. If you like E alot then you should only take it a few times a year at the max.

E is a drug that has amazing effects, therefor it should be treated with respect. If you treat it with respect it will treat you with respect.

If you dont treat it with respect and roll every week, month, then you'll actually become retarded. I met a kid that took E like every week that this happened to. He wasn't retarded but part of his brain was gone.

MODERATION IS KEY. E isn't a harmful drug unless you make it that way.

So sense it's been 2-3 years for me sense I rolled. I'm probably going to do it again this year sense i'm quiting benzos and getting off opiates as we speak.

I reap the benefits and get the best effects by using it this way. Plus it just seems like the other day when you think about it...

This isn't a "opiate" it's not somthing your supposed to do all the time. If people would really listen to this, it would make E a wonderful tool.
 
brentxzi said:
If you dont treat it with respect and roll every week, month, then you'll actually become retarded. I met a kid that took E like every week that this happened to. He wasn't retarded but part of his brain was gone.
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I mostly agree with you, but have to disagree a lil here. As I said, I've used on average a gram of crystal a month for 15 years and certainly am not retarded. There is a big difference between pills and MDMA. Pills contain all kinds of crap, MDMA less so. It's not "pure" as it averages 85% purity (between 80% and 90% across the UK as a whole) but it's a lot better than pills. The only people I know who are messed up after abusing ecstasy are the ones who hammered pills every weekend. Those, like myself, who indulge in crystal on a semi-regular basis seem to suffer little if any problems. Of course that's just personal experience.
 
Would you continue to take crystal if you thought it was making you E-tarded? Case in point, there is no way you could know. Even laboratory tests on cognition are difficult to apply to drug induced brain damage let alone asses your own level of impairment that occurs slowly over 15 years.

Bottom line is that every single person I know who uses MDMA regularly shows some degree of cognitive impairment or social maladaptation. Denying this is simply ridiculous, all strong stimulants that share amphetamines method of action are going to result in some neurological changes and likely some neurotoxicity when used in high enough doses. MDMA will likely not change your life in a terrible way because of this impairment unless you use it very excessively but it is doing some damage via toxicity or neuroplasticity (probably both) and this damage adds up on top of all the other drugs we do. Further like some others pointed out do not underestimate the psychological and emotional damage that can occur under the influence of this drug. And Shambles makes a good point about the contents of street pills, however even molly can have harmful by products and unreacted precursors in the products.

In my opinion MDMA is not as harmful as methamp but it is certainly in the general vicinity of harm with all the amphetamine based stimulants with the added risk or psychedelics (IE HPPD, bad rolls, etc).
 
This nutty proffesors argument is valid, yet in a way stupid if you think about it logically. OF COURSE THERE ARE GOING TO BE NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WHEN E IS ABUSED; EVERY DRUG HAS NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WHEN CONTROL IS NOT EXCERCISED!

It's no different with alcohol and tobbaco - infact - those two can have JUST AS BAD negative side effects with prolonged use. ESPECIALLY tobbaco.

I hate reading things like this. :!
 
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tWW said:
Would you continue to take crystal if you thought it was making you E-tarded?
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Quite honestly, I probably would. I would perhaps cut down if I knew it was definitely causing significant damage. And I do realise that any damage caused may be subtle or take years to become noticable, so I know I'm taking a pretty big potential risk with my future health. I'm sure that using MDMA or any other drug too regularly is not good for you, but I suppose I still tend to think short-term - not a good thing. I've had a very self-destructive relationship with most drugs for most of my life, but I'm gradually becoming more responsible as I descend into middle age :).

I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to use MDMA frequently, but I do so myself and have noticed no problems. Also, there seems to be a natural ceiling for MDMA. Around 500mg is the absolute maximum I ever do in one night - usually less, but half a g on a big night out wouldn't be unusual - and after that amount I just don't feel the need for anymore. Just enjoy the slide back down into the warm and fuzzy afterglow. Hmm... afterglows :).
 
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