Salvia: which other substance does it remind you, if any?

[christmas]

Always reminded me of glue.

 

[mutnat]

Very very interesting answers by everyone.

I like it that even some say it's a class of its own, some also find that there are similarities with other substances, noteably dissociatives. I have also felt a slight similarity in my last amanita experience [mid dose] - haven't done any dxm / ketamine though.

I certainly feel there is great potential in psychanalytic approach of these phenomenons. I sense there are lots to be understood when all these phenomenons are examined in a wider spectrum. I have many thoughts and speculations, but I am not sure it's appropriate to share all of it right now, as it's only rough thoughts and speculations.

People seem to respond extremely differently with this substance, many seem to have a love or hate reaction, and many [as with all dissociatives, I guess] have psychedelic results, even though the means are totally different.

Could there be a pattern in all this? Could we identify groups of similar behaviours? Could we spot elements in peoples characters that make them more compatible for disscociatives or classic psychedelics in appropriate times of their lifes or for life? - for one I have noted that there are some certain people that communicate with dissociatives more and some that are the classic psychedelic type of psychonaut. Of course there are millions of colours in between, but you have to do some grouping to follow my thought.

I know the typical psychonaut will normally hate all this intellectual mumbo jumbo shit, but I dig it, and even if there's not pattern at all after all, I feel great at attempting to examine if there is one. And, whatever the case, the mystery remains, how dissociatives can have the same or similar end results with totally different agents like classic psychedelics

^ It is remarkable how opinions as to Salvia's character and effects are so different, as I have never experienced anything like that, finding it almost comical at times

^ I must admit, with salvia I've found myself laughing so much that when I come down I feel like someone has given me a bloody good kicking, my muscles ache so much. Physically a biy uncomfortable, but mentally it left me feeling like a gruubby onld sweater that had just been given a good wash (and that feeling is well worth a bit of physical discomfort)

Well I never burst into laughter in my experiences as some people do, but let me say that I have almost always a wide smile drawn in my face during the experience and a happy and pleasant mood afterwards - well almost always, except the first time, where I don't know if I had a smile or anything, because I don't think I really existed during that first time I will explain more later about that time.

I have to say that I don't find the physical effects unpleasant. On the contrary I find it appealing, especially in lower doses. I liked Fishface's comment about the 'unpeeling feeling', very descriptive, I don't think I have met this term again, but it's great. One time I had this guys describing how he felt pain, REAL pain during his 5-7 minutes experience! I thought it was just his mind resisting to let go and fear, but anyway.

Well let me say a bit more about my [quite limited] experience.

I haven't had so many experiences, 8-10 or so, only the first one being a 'breakthrough', a strong one. Actually i didn't intend to go so high that first time, so I smoked what I thought was a few x5, to get a taste, to see what the mild space is like.

But it prooved to be soooo potent, or I was more sensitive than most people, anyway. Well by the time I exhaled the world split in two and I lost contact with body, the memory I had just smoked something or anything - I 'got it' more when coming down, because it was slower but when I was there, I almost lost sense of conciousness, but not completely. It was so quick and intense that I was literaly stunned no reaction at all. Even coming down, in confusion, I didn't remember I had smoked something, at first...

I can see how one can panic or get scared or become unnerved in such a feeling, especailly when he is not properly prepared and informed, but for some reason I didn't [well I was informed, but I didn't aim for that extreme high at the moment - parents home and all] .

When I finally came down, I was somewhat confused by what I had just experienced, but not at all shocked, scared ar anything. In fact I found oute later in my reasearch that all salvianauts almost always have such reactions at their first times, especially in such doses, the space seems alien, incomprehensible, most people cannot really make something out of it, like some people here commented.

I decided I would experiment further in lower doses so as to learn to navigate in this space, to get familiar with it, so as to make the most of my next big-dose experience, thus all of my following experiences so far were lower in dose, as I haven't yet felt like going for the next big ride.

I found my second experience extremely pleasant. I could only characterise this experience as a extreme physical euphoria, extreme euphoria but physically oriented. I realise that I maybe am an exception , due to character or idiosyncracy or something - all of my lower dose experiences had this euphoric character in various degree, and they were somewhat sedative. Some of them were under the influence of alcohol. Of the people that I have given it to, 2 people, in pretty low doses, both had pleasant / interesting experiences. None was really experienced with psychedelics [if at all] one said the space / sedation reminded him a bit of opiates, the other had also drunk alcohol prior to smoking salvia.

Good to know I'm not the only one!!!I suppose some folk don't like the feeling of being unpeeled for eternity or to imagine that they're going to be a spoke in a wheel forever, whereas I just love it!!!

for me what's comical is that the reactions to salvia in the commuinty are so strikingly different, especially when you listen to hardheads / abusers of the classic psychedelics who have been unnerved by salvia speaking about it. For me it's somewhat comical to see people who have abused drugs and treated their minds and bodys with no respect to bash or even more politely dismiss this extraordinary substance like it's a football team or something.

It reminds me of some guy I had talked to who had used lsd intesively ober 10 years and was scared stiff by a single DMT experience, stating he would never try in again, maybe in his late 50s

I also liked that comment of spiralza who thought salvia bears similarities to DMT - I have yet to try DMT, I want to, some time, for sure [my own experiences with the classic psychedelics are with lsd and lsa only so far], but I have somewhat realised that it's quite propable that the timeline [and intensity] of the short acting psychedelics might be the key reason to most people's fears - even though I can't really understand how such a short lasting thing can be so unpleasant or traumatic, when you know what you're doing and are prepared properly...

Lastly, it seems that negative salvia experiences lack any pleasant element - the space unnerves them, they usually find it cold and hostile.... even salvianauts usually state they don't do it for pleasure or euphoria....

Would you ever recommend trying salvia? Does it have anything to give? Is there anything that should be experienced even though it may be uncomfortable?

I wouldn't recommend any drug to anyone, especially to someone I don't know nothing about him. In my book, nothing should be experienced. But I would be happy to answer any real question about it, if this mini subjective/objective presentation I did in this post ain't enough.

I have also found that most people idioticly go for strong extracts at once. Most salvianauts from e-dot community recommend starting with plain leaf or x5. Standardised x5 has been enough from me and leaf also works as well. I am growing it now, as well. Some make their own x3.

But there is shit like x40 , x80 or even x100 - well, consider yourself warned - this stuff is made for uninformed idiots or people that have an unusual tolerance for the stuff. Also, it is illegal in Australia and Italy.

I guess it's true that salvia is not a thing for druggies, or those who are in a hurry. It takes time get to know it better, NOT unlike the classic psychedelics, but maybe its more complicated because it all happens in few minutes and more important, you often cannot say that you learnt something in particular. 'So what the fuck was that'? - so people go for more comprehensible

Something similar goes for Amanitas in my opinion [=patience, sensibility anyone???] - well most might go for a breakthrough dose in their first attempt, well, just a few might actually enjoy or make something out of it, but most will get fucked up.

I have 20 or so low/mid amanita experiences, tha last one being with Amanita pantherina, always self-picked and have had a nice time. I haven't yet gone for the breakthrough experience, because that's how I felt about the whole thing from the begining, 2,5 years from now, when I picked my first 4-5 mushrooms.

Mentality is everything sometimes, or pretty many times in fact.

I would love to see what all people in the house think about all these, so please, make me a happy man!

 

[spiralza]

I also liked that comment of spiralza who thought salvia bears similarities to DMT - I have yet to try DMT, I want to, some time, for sure [my own experiences with the classic psychedelics are with lsd and lsa only so far], but I have somewhat realised that it's quite propable that the timeline [and intensity] of the short acting psychedelics might be the key reason to most people's fears - even though I can't really understand how such a short lasting thing can be so unpleasant or traumatic, when you know what you're doing and are prepared properly...

Seeing you bring my comment up made me start thinking about why I made that comparison in the first place. Both substances are quite intense, short-acting, and peak effects are achieved in a little under a minute in most cases...but there's something about both drugs that I've never been able to put my finger on until now (when talking about the two of them collectively, I mean). One common theme that I have been able to come up with is the unyielding sense of being observed by an omnipresent entity. On DMT, the spirit in question is considerably more benign and shows the user an extremely lucid and colorful landscape; in salvia-land, this being is easy to perceive as malevolent and intimidating.

The world through salvia is also feels very much "incomplete", like an assimilation of unrelated dreams and thoughts colliding together. I find that makes for an unpleasant trip as it's very easy to get stuck in a loop (i.e. thinking that you've turned into the dashboard in your car), although in the right state of mind, there can be much to glean from the experience. On DMT, everything "clicks" or "gels"; the idea of "being" seems almost comical, and you become one with the universe.

I also believe that while ego death is obviously obtainable from both substances, they both evoke very different sensations. More on that once I do a bit more research. You've got me looking into this quite heavily now.

 

[DragonFly31]

It reminded me of the day I was born. That is, if I could remember that day. Crazy, crazy stuff.

Out of the long list of psychedelics I've tried, this one I'm still a little reluctant to try again.

 

[topzigzag]

the only substance i can think of resembling salvia is alcohol. i also think it's a lot like being a hammer, and chewing gum,

 

[Don Luigi]

It reminded me of the day I was born. That is, if I could remember that day. Crazy, crazy stuff.

Out of the long list of psychedelics I've tried, this one I'm still a little reluctant to try again.

I find that on all my non-breakthrough experiences this was quite true. I would feel like a kid again and revisit memories that I never dwell on. It's a nostalgia that is hard to place a finger on. Maybe it's the feeling of wonder, innocence or naivety. It's just the uncontrollable laugher and seeing that it will reduce just about anyone to the same state within a matter of seconds.

I really liked salvia for a while, found it to be worthwhile but I don't think I would touch it again. I'm reluctant as you say. It's one of those drugs that, for me, now feels like a lot of potential hassle to put myself through. Although the same can be said for all psychedelics, this one is in its own class as far as the strangeness. It really be quite eerie and foreboding.

 

[Xaratoostrah]

Well,well, nice to see a friend (Mutnat) from the Greek forum we both are enrolled in! Now, lets see...

I know the typical psychonaut will normally hate all this intellectual mumbo jumbo shit

So ,what is that "typical psychonaut" you speak of? What are his/her "defining qualities"? You seem to be reffering to something very solid as to what it is and his/her prefferences ("know" ,"normally").

Rest assured that in my book what you said is not "Mumbo Jumbo shit", i find your demographic observation very interesting.

I guess it's true that salvia is not a thing for druggies, or those who are in a hurry.

I dont know about that....Use of this plant seems to have spread like wildfire in USA , with pivotal example the whole "youtube your salvia experience" mania that alongside with the Brett Chidester (sp?) case has set state after state in a legislative frenzy (plus very BAD and INACCURATE "journalism").Its potent ,it has short duration,its easily found and certainly provides an interesting headspace. So it looks like something that a "druggie" would approach.

To get the discussion "home" ,its amazing irresponsible use (or any use of salvia) isnt BIG in Greece. Guess Greeks are saved by their lazyness "why bother when you have cannabis?".

On the Salvia comparison issue. I would say its a class of its own. Two prominent features of it stroke as "quite familiar". First of all ,it gives a sense sometimes of "nostalgia ,of things yet to be lived".Its very difficult to put it into words but this has been felt mainly as an "after effect", lets say its for me "the afterglow of it".It seems that "memory" is strongly implicated in the experience,be it "dejavu" ,reliving past moments,or even more strikingly...olfactory elements of the experience triggering a series of "memory recollection" events. The "olfactory" element is not something i have seen often (if not at all ) in other substances.Its not though on the smell,per se, but on the memory of smell.

The second are some elements of "depersonalisation" during the experience where one can feel "not being himself at all", or being a clean slate ,ready to start over anew!

Both of those features stroke me as amazing because i have felt them briefly in the past when i was a toddler ,in episodes usually lasting 2-3 seconds.Now they were never "problematic" in any short or "dangerous" or frequent.The intensity by the way of those "naturally" occuring moments was much lower than the ones salvia induces.It was more like the "after the experience" intensity. After a point i could even control them not duration-wise ,but more like being able to initiate them if i felt the moment was "primed" for something like this.

I think propably that early feelings would have been my first contact with the notion of "there is more than baseline psychology".Dure to the rarity and the brief character of those episodes i was not allowed to examine them thoroughly.Salvia divinorum may give a second chance at it. I have not arrived at any conclusions as of now ,but i was granded a bit more time in that space.

 

[icancu2k]

Nothing at all has enveloped me in roots, growing from the ground, as a lady wanders over and looks down upon me... never could I imagine another psychedelic EVER producing anything near an experience like it!

Writhing around, with tree roots wrapped around me, completely fooling both my senses of feeling and vision.... COMPLETELY!

 

[EntheoDjinn]

...................... even though I can't really understand how such a short lasting thing can be so unpleasant or traumatic, when you know what you're doing and are prepared properly... ...........

The problem here Mutnat, is that the consensus seems to be that although one knows what one is doing (in a vague sort of way), no amount of preparation will necessarily mitigate the awesome power that Salvia can visit upon you, should you experience a true breakthrough . You will not remember you took Salvia, you will have no idea of where you are or what you are. But you will be aware that you are having an interesting - perhaps terrrifying -but always fascinating and wonderful, unique experience.

And in my opinion, FWIW, sub-breakthrough experiences miss the whole point of the exercise.

E

 

[Xorkoth]

^^ That, and one of salvia's main effects at a full dose is to entirely remove your ability to remember or perceive that you took a drug and that anything is happening besides reality.

 

[mutnat]

Spiralza, I like what you say that salvia space is somewhat incomplete, something lacking or something. Nice note.

You've got me looking into this quite heavily now.

I'm really glad about this

So ,what is that "typical psychonaut" you speak of? What are his/her "defining qualities"? You seem to be reffering to something very solid as to what it is and his/her prefferences ("know" ,"normally").

I meant the guy that has already found the 'truth' in the oneness with the universe, the connectedness with all, talking with god and all these stuff and almost converted his psychedelic experiences to religious beliefs. On the other hand it's a guy who likes to trip and enjoys the space but doesn't really think about stuff rationally. That's the guys I meant anyway, not really sure they're typical or not.

I dont know about that....Use of this plant seems to have spread like wildfire in USA , with pivotal example the whole "youtube your salvia experience" mania that alongside with the Brett Chidester (sp?) case has set state after state in a legislative frenzy (plus very BAD and INACCURATE "journalism").Its potent ,it has short duration,its easily found and certainly provides an interesting headspace. So it looks like something that a "druggie" would approach.

Well, Xaratoostrah, you're quite right on argueing on this. Rather quick + naive statement on my part. Yeah, greeks don't really know salvia. I guess what I wanted to emphasize on was the dislike / terror / incompatibility some have with salvia, sometimes after a couple of experiences, often after a breakthrough dose.

edit:

The problem here Mutnat, is that the consensus seems to be that although one knows what one is doing (in a vague sort of way), no amount of preparation will necessarily mitigate the awesome power that Salvia can visit upon you, should you experience a true breakthrough . You will not remember you took Salvia, you will have no idea of where you are or what you are. But you will be aware that you are having an interesting - perhaps terrrifying -but always fascinating and wonderful, unique experience.

yeah, this is truth, but wouldn't getting familiarized with lower doses , and thus the 'taste' of the space, improve one's ability to comprehend the otherwise incomprehensible space or navigate better in this 5-7 minute wild ride?

I would also add to those comments of Xorkoth & EntheoDjinn, that consciousness might also be reduced to a minimal level - or even disappear in an amnesiac dose - and maybe this is the very reason why one completely forgets he just smoked something.

PS:

And in my opinion, FWIW, sub-breakthrough experiences miss the whole point of the exercise.

EntheoDjinn, so you think sub-breakthrough experiences are useless, or that Salvia's power and potential is about the breakthrough and only that?

 

[Feels]

I think sub-breakthrough experiences are more likely to be unpleasant. If you completely break through, chances are you won't have to deal with that pesky ego worrying about everything and you can just let go and submit yourself fully to the experience at hand.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

salvia is unique; no other substance is as confusing and strange to me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

necessarily so you think or do you think analogues will behave similarly?

Salvia is one psychedelic that I have actually not tried! So I have a hard time understanding people's comments about it.

Perhaps I should try it!? I don't know why I'm waiting (waiting on salvia and mescaline for some reason). Life is strange!

peace and love,
samadhi

 

[fastandbulbous]

Can I just suggest that most people DO NOT try it in conjunction with a full blown psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin. The majority of people I've seen combine the two have had a disturbing times, acouple of them developing what approximates to PTSD lasting several months to come to terms with

 

[Deleted member 75492]

Nitrous (N2O) without a doubt.

 

[Xaratoostrah]

I meant the guy that has already found the 'truth' in the oneness with the universe, the connectedness with all, talking with god and all these stuff and almost converted his psychedelic experiences to religious beliefs.

I wouldnt say that is a "psychonaut" let alone "typical".That looks more like what you coined ,a "psychedelic theist".Its more or less like any theism (even the one the typical Greek Orthodox granny is into,feeling she will soon depart so she better make her "trip plans" hehe ) ,only that the "theistic" element has been replaced with a more "hip" ,"cool","wow" theory.

Anyhow,it was quite off topic but Mutnat i think you get my drift.

Can I just suggest that most people DO NOT try it in conjunction with a full blown psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin. The majority of people I've seen combine the two have had a disturbing times, acouple of them developing what approximates to PTSD lasting several months to come to terms with

Fastandbulbous ,could you please elaborate on this? Have you got any personal experience in such a combination?

From what i gather so far -reading not experiencing it- ,the salvia intensity can momentarily override the LSD-psilocybin experience.Is it so or the effect of salvia or the remaining psilocybin/LSD trip change at all?

 

[fastandbulbous]

salvia is unique; no other substance is as confusing and strange to me.

Have you tried pentazocine or any of the other benzomorphans with a fair amount of kappa agonism contributing to their activuity? Getting lost in your kitchen because you've turned through 90' - now that's confusing...

Fastandbulbous ,could you please elaborate on this? Have you got any personal experience in such a combination?

Never taken the combination myself, but I've had to help with someone who has a couple of times. In the worst case, it was like having to look after a two year old in the middle of a bout of hyperactivity (the lad smoked some 5x concentrate about 45 mins into a mushroom trip). He was like that for a good 4-5 hours and still has moments of panic from that experience a year and a half afterwards. The other person also didn't have a clue what was happening (LSD & salvia) for hours, but he was reasonably OK after about 4-5 weeeks.

Without constant supervision, both of them would have seriously damaged themselves (or worse, like trip to the hosopital or even morgue). In both cases it was despite being told only to do a tiny amount of salvia (if at all), which they ignored; as everybody else was tripping and had to force themselves to come down in order to watch them, unless totally agreed with the others who'd be present, it's also a thoughtless, selfish thing to do (esp if as above, the people having to do the 'care in the community' bit have also ingested psychedelics

 

[Liquid Vision]

In my experience, you can't really compare Salvia to anything. The closest I can come is a +4 plateau trip on DXM.

 

[DragonFly31]

Can I just suggest that most people DO NOT try it in conjunction with a full blown psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin. The majority of people I've seen combine the two have had a disturbing times, acouple of them developing what approximates to PTSD lasting several months to come to terms with

This is good advice to take heed of. I'd go further. A friend of mine took a bong of salvia on MDMA. He was (is) a strong one, as in he's taken his fair share of everything. He was still recovering a couple weeks after, he said. Nothing, not even LSD or 2C-B and the like had ever affected him in such a way. So be careful with salvia combinations.

In fact, be careful with salvia end of.