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[Ketamine Subthread] The K-Hole

I do not enjoy arguing over semantics. I simply think this is important because I have seen several people go overkill on K, chasing that ever-elusive "K-hole". It just seems to me like slang that has gotten out of control... like someone saying they find Pot much more enjoyable than Cannabis!
 
Jamshyd said:
I do not enjoy arguing over semantics. I simply think this is important because I have seen several people go overkill on K, chasing that ever-elusive "K-hole". It just seems to me like slang that has gotten out of control... like someone saying they find Pot much more enjoyable than Cannabis!
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That is just scary with the ammount of info easily available. Did you refer them to erowid?
 
Jamshyd said:
Seems to me that all that DMT you've smoked has still not given you a sense of humour. I wouldn't have confessed to having an agenda if I meant to be insidious.
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I'm not even delving into that territory man. I don't know your agenda. I certainly don't think it's insidious, and I hope I didn't imply that. It's just the conviction of an agenda in the first place that irks me, really; I'm the type to look at things idealistically. Maybe I'm wrong for that, but I don't think it makes me an asshole.

however, you being the aggressor in this otherwise sensible discussion while debating my sense of humor is a wee bit fucked up, I'd say. ;)

Jamshyd said:
Yes - a useless word, and there is no point in those. Why not just say "ketamine breakthrough" like you said "DMT breaktrhough"?
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why not say K-hole? That's my only point here and you just made it.

Jamshyd said:
Your analogy is flawed btw. People do not constantly refer to their DMT experiences as "elves".
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I'm using black and white extremes for the sake of making an example. You can substitute any individual characteristic of a DMT breakthrough if it makes you feel better, but the fact remains: a breakthrough has the capacity to be all over the fucking place, but nobody's going to dispute a DMT breakthrough exists, regardless of how individualized the experience is. Right?

bottom line, I saw you edited your post...I think this is semantics. You're not so adverse to the term K-hole as you are the misappropriation of the term, and I agree with you. But damning the term over it is akin to damning blacks because some blacks are burglars, for example: needless prejudice resulting from speaking far too broadly. I'm kinda drunk at this point and losing track of what I'm talking about but I think you get what I'm saying.
 
Everythings subjective. Thats all.

And relative. Thats also all.

Oh, and I agree with DMT analogy- I've seen elves, but I haven't broken through- I've broken through, but haven't seen elves. Archetypes are just that anyway. Anyway, as long as your in the void, it doesn't matter the route- the ends justify the means. As to K-holes- I have only experienced small bumps of K which I disliked, but I've seen friends consume mammoth quantities (usually as pills) and still move around, talk, etc. just couldn't really walk as such or talk about anything in a language ii know but they certainly haven't been paralysed.

I rememeber turning around to my friend (he was deeply in the ketamine intoxication) in the line at a bar, and said "What do you want?" (to drink). His reaction astounded me- he's like "what do you mean, I'm just lining up to get a beer Sam, I'm not trying to hassle you, sorry dude sorry dude"). Nothing I could do would explain that my question wasn't like "what do you want bitch?", but more"Can I help you?". Ketammines weird. :)
 
egor said:
That is just scary with the ammount of info easily available. Did you refer them to erowid?
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Of course. But I don't think even erowid provides an adequate explanation of what a K-hole is.

nbsp: Sorry if I misunderstood re: your sense of humour.

----

well, it seems like I've failed to convey why I have objections to this word. I tried my best.

*shrug*
 
Jamshyd, your point has not been lost by me. I totally agree with your problem with semantics and furthermore to get rid of the whole K-Hole, this term is no different than the arbitrary term double stack with X. :)
 
Jamshyd said:
I do not enjoy arguing over semantics. I simply think this is important because I have seen several people go overkill on K, chasing that ever-elusive "K-hole". It just seems to me like slang that has gotten out of control... like someone saying they find Pot much more enjoyable than Cannabis!
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I can agree with you here. It does seem that the term "K-hole" is a frequently misunderstood term, moreso than other terms. However, it's still just a term like any other and I think its confusion stems mostly from Ketamine's powerful and bizarre effects, and its varying usage at low vs. high doses, than from the word itself. I'm pretty sure that if you called what is commonly referred to as a "K-hole" a "ketamine breakthrough" instead, the same confusion would occur. What's a breakthrough? Is it when you can't walk? Is it when you can't move? Is it when you lose all body awareness?
 
i get annoyed when people snort a line of K and then proceed to tell me they are in this crazy k hole...
When i am in a k hole...it is complete nothingness. and i dont talk move or think.
complete nothingness, yet something...an expierence
 
While you said nobody agreed in their definitions, I believe they all were just too narrow.

I see a K-hole as a complete loss of ego. Simply the point where your mind fails to divide you from the rest of the world.

If you don't realize that you are controlling your own arm, that is a loss of ego. When you reach "The point at which all external stimuli are eliminated and you are entirely within yourself/the universe" yourself/the universe blend together in a loss of ego. If you can no longer experience stimuli either inside or outside of yourself, I can see that as a loss of ego as well. I can see each of these definitions simply as individual ways people experience a total loss of ego.

At least that's my personal opinion. I'm excited to see how people on this forum agree/disagree with me considering it's my first post.
 
Jamshyd said:
Of course. But I don't think even erowid provides an adequate explanation of what a K-hole is.

nbsp: Sorry if I misunderstood re: your sense of humour.

----

well, it seems like I've failed to convey why I have objections to this word. I tried my best.

*shrug*
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I was refering to the person saying they like pot more than cannabis:\
 
My definition is when I get to that state where I can't bothered to move about. I am essentially out of my body joining some sort of Hive-mind or Heinlein style overmind form of "reality". When Time and space bends and you find yourself in a slightly scary, but still comforting spot that you never want to come back from but sadly do.
 
In respect to the KHOLE itself, everyone's hole could be different, just like everyone responds differently to drugs, and everyone's brain chemistry is different, like when people claim to see goblins and whatnot when tripping, i think they're completely full of shit, but some people swear that they see this and i can't discount that.

But for anyone to say that "there is no such thing as a K-hole" pretty much proves their ignorance. A K-hole or anyhole off any dissociative is black and white clear cut thing. There's a pretty obvious difference in the line between being really high and being in a hole, Holes can be different but every dissociative has them and it's always crystal clear the point when u go from being high to being stuck in a hole. The only way that this point could be argued IMHO is to not be well experienced in high enough doages of these drugs.
 
toxide said:
In respect to the KHOLE itself, everyone's hole could be different, just like everyone responds differently to drugs, and everyone's brain chemistry is different, like when people claim to see goblins and whatnot when tripping, i think they're completely full of shit, but some people swear that they see this and i can't discount that.

But for anyone to say that "there is no such thing as a K-hole" pretty much proves their ignorance. A K-hole or anyhole off any dissociative is black and white clear cut thing. There's a pretty obvious difference in the line between being really high and being in a hole, Holes can be different but every dissociative has them and it's always crystal clear the point when u go from being high to being stuck in a hole. The only way that this point could be argued IMHO is to not be well experienced in high enough doages of these drugs.
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Yes sir.

Sorry if I offended you with my ignorance.

You are obviously the embodiment of The Truth, I must have missed the announcement of your coming.
 
Dondante said:
Exactly!!! But I'd add that in addition to sensory shutdown, you have a breakdown of logic and cognitive capabilities. You're shut off from everything that's not you, but you're also shut off from everything that is you. It's a unique balance between brain processes shutting down, but maintenance of awareness/consciousness.
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I agree with that, all you can do is observe the completely alien reality from the point of a spectator but not remotely comprehend it.
 
LOL:) you don't have to be sorry, i wasn't offended, i was just correcting you, that's all, and i apologize if i some how offended u, which i clearly have otherwise there would b no need for such sarcasm
 
Has anyone ever tried to read or write on a heavey dose of k? Its so pointless. I've decided its best just to lie down in a dark room un the quiet, or maybe with some mellow music on. BTW I know this has been covered before but what are some folks fave band/tunestracks for k. Bill Laswells "Imagenary Cuba" comes to mind also Mazzey Star or Spiritualized.
 
a k-hole is a hole where you put all your K.

some people also refer to them as nostrils.
 
Looking through all the responses I do notice some differences in the descriptions of the k-hole, but on the whole I think that the definitions are mostly in agreement. Sure, some people put it a little different than the next guy, but all in all most define a common set of attributes. Had everyone here said the exact same thing I would have been more suspicious, because it is difficult to describe phenomenons of the mind and body.

How does a pain in the intestines really feel? :) No one doubt the existence of pains of the intestines, but describing them in a uniform way across humans still seems difficult.

I'm actually not a big ketamine fan, because the effects I get on it are a lot less profound than the effects that usually impress me. To some I bet k-hole "iz da shit" because some part of their psyche likes the state - I'm more like "I don't really care, it's just something that's there".

I'm pretty sure that I have k-holed at some point, but I expected to attach more significance and pleasure to the event than I actually did. Makes ya kinda suffer from ketamine envy... And that was my primary reason for doubting for a long time that I'd k-holed at all. After all ... insufflating 250 mg. ketamine pretty fast oughta do something :)

The most consistent experience I've had gives me the distinct feeling that I'm "both small and large at the same time - like I'm the entire existence, which oughta be big, and kinda small because the entire existence seems pretty small" - a description not entirely incompatible with a dissociative state. IMO ;)
 
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