Cocaine and L-DOPA

[rincewindrocks]

Highyly hypothetical, please rip into this theroy with impunity.

So I was thinking about how regular users of E with pre- and post- load with 5-HTP to ensure a high and steady supply of seratonin in their brains. My question is, would the same thing essentially be possible with cocaine or amphetamines? Taken before hand, would it increase the effects of the drug? Taken afterwards, would it either prevent some neurotoxicity or possibly (this is what actually got me thinking about it) help prevent/cure/lessen the comedown, especially off cocaine?

thanks to anyone who bothers to come up with a decent response 8)

EDIT: I should mention that i mean using L-DOPA with the cocaine and amphetamines, not 5-HTP. probably obvious, but felt i should mention it anyways.

 

[mclaughlinr1]

coke blows
e rolls
take 'em together and lose control.

i would say it would definitely help with the crash you get after doing cocaine; since the crash is caused by a lack of serotonin and dopamine in neurons.

 

[rincewindrocks]

that was my thinking as well, nice to see im not totally out there

 

[BilZ0r]

Well we don't know that the crash is caused by a lack of serotonin...

Coke isn't neurotoxic, so L-DOPA not gonna help that. We don't know why or how meth is neurotoxic, and I don't know any studies using L-DOPA and METH...

Coke doesn't cause dopamine depletion [1], so no reason to think l-DOPA is going to help any here...

It's likely that it might help with the amphetamine comedown though...

 

[rincewindrocks]

what causes the coke comedown/fiending aspect then? Id always been told it was due to the lack of dopamine after the cocaine wore off.

 

[mclaughlinr1]

^yo blizor, you should update wikipedia. that is where i got all that from.

heh, as always.. should have just waited for you to respond to this thread.

 

[5-HT2]

We don't know why or how meth is neurotoxic, and I don't know any studies using L-DOPA and METH...

High concentrations of L-DOPA can be neurotoxic to DA neurons in cell culture. I wouldn't recommend taking L-DOPA with amphetamines unless you watch your dosage very carefully, as this combo may increase the risk of ODing (then again, it could decrease it due to pushing the balance of NE/DA activity towards DA…it all depends on how important you think the contributions of NE and DA transmission are to amphetamine-induced convlusions, hypertension, heart attack, etc.). But yeah, nobody knows the mechanism of methamphetamine neurotoxicity.

It's likely that it might help with the amphetamine comedown though...

I've found that catecholamine precursors like L-tyrosine and L-DOPA definitely, though subtly, help with regaining energy and motivation post-amphetamine.

 

[BilZ0r]

what causes the coke comedown/fiending aspect then? Id always been told it was due to the lack of dopamine after the cocaine wore off.

Downregulation of dopamine receptors, and mal-regulation in the circuts that it effects. That's my geuss... no one knows. But the evidence really isn't there that after a single dose of coke, you get a low dopamine level [1, 2].

 

[flexo]

assclown

Well we don't know that the crash is caused by a lack of serotonin...

Coke isn't neurotoxic, so L-DOPA not gonna help that. We don't know why or how meth is neurotoxic, and I don't know any studies using L-DOPA and METH...

Coke doesn't cause dopamine depletion [1], so no reason to think l-DOPA is going to help any here...

It's likely that it might help with the amphetamine comedown though...

This has to be the biggest post of misinformation I've ever seen. Cocaine IS neurotoxic, as are ALL psychoactive drugs when used in high doses or for extended periods of time. Cocaine is a Serotonin/Dopamine/Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, so taking L-Dopa WOULD help with the crash. The reason Methamphetamine is neurotoxic is because it is more readily uptaked into the pre-synaptic axon than dopamine. When in the pre-syaptic axon, it releases dopamine from the vessicles containing it and forcing it into the synapse. It is also an agonist at the 5-ht/DA/NE post-synapse.

This is a good question, I really would like to see if there are any studies out there showing L-dopa as effective, but since it works in the same action as 5-HT(just for a diff. NT) I don't see why not.

DONT POST SHIT ABOUT NEUROBIOLOGY IF YOURE MAKING IT UP/COKED OUT/TWEAKING

 

[lineartransform]

Er, that's a rather aggressive response with some interesting statements and absolutes flexo. For instance, your mechanism of methamphetamine neurotoxicity seems a bit vague.

 

[ebola?]

This has to be the biggest post of misinformation I've ever seen.

The thing is, this actually refers to what follows below, not Bilzor's above post. See, the reason that Bilzor's been absent is because he's doing his dissertation research in neuropharmacology. His evidence is sound, if some of it not entirely current.

Cocaine IS neurotoxic, as are ALL psychoactive drugs when used in high doses or for extended periods of time.

If we conceive of neurotoxicity in this way, it loses all utility as an analytical concept. I suggest that we instead operationalize neurotoxicity as permanent neural changes following severe-binge but plausible recreational levels of use.

Cocaine is a Serotonin/Dopamine/Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, so taking L-Dopa WOULD help with the crash.

Possibly, but we don't know if this would be because l-dopa replenishes some sort of 'dopamine depletion'. The evidence shows that moderate, and perhaps a high-level single dose use of cocaine won't induce dopamine depletion. So it might be more that inducing stimulant-like effects feels good following stimulant use.

The reason Methamphetamine is neurotoxic is because it is more readily uptaked into the pre-synaptic axon than dopamine.

While this contrast likely points us in the right direction, it fails to provide the mechanism of neurotoxicity. You also fail to account for the stark difference in neurotoxicity of meth vs. amp.

t is also an agonist at the 5-ht/DA/NE post-synapse.

Could I please get a citation and explanation of mechanistic relevance?

DONT POST SHIT ABOUT NEUROBIOLOGY IF YOURE MAKING IT UP/COKED OUT/TWEAKING

Exactly, man

ebola

 

[zamzams]

I was cooking a curry the other day that had fava (broad) beans in and it got me wondering about L-dopa so i read about some of it's uses in Parkinsons sufferers and the only thing i took to be certain was that taking L-dopa long term is shown to cause serotonin depletion. So when used to treat the likes of parkinsons patients a suitable SSRI must be prescribed at the same time. i.e paroxetine. I work in medicine (not pharmalogically trained though) and have access to records so could find out what exactly is being prescribed alongside L-dopa. My understanding was that the SSRIs have to be prescribed to reduce oxidative stress and to prevent loss of neurons in the dopamine pathways.

I am more interested in the nootropics to improve neuroligical functions though i.e .phenibut, piractem

btw the fava beans were delish but there was no liver or Chianti efefefefefef unfortunately

 

[sekio]

Cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor, not a releasing agent. Taking 5-HTP/L-DOPA would do nothing to ease the crash (besides increasing peripheral monoamine levels). The "crash" and fiending is probably due to receptor internalization as stated above.

 

[RedBaron]

I know that this thread is old, but it came up for my l-dopa/cocaine search.
Is it dangerous to take l-dopa, and then do cocaine while the l-dopa is in effect?
And I'm talking about small amounts of coke. Enough to feel like two cups of coffee, nothing too crazy.

BTW: I find l-dopa to be very interesting. It picks me up in a pleasant way, and doesn't crash later. It's like sustained release, less euphoric cocaine.