EZ Test for Cathinones yes or no?

[GaumarolBostich]

Hey fellow users, I do use EZ-Test for a first examination on 4- or 3- MMC. I know that this test can't distinguish the types of MCs and certainly has problems ruling out the CMCs but at least it will show completely different substances.

Question: Lately I had some irritating results by positively indicating 4-MMC which didn't match the effects. (Clearly yellow but couchlocking and a horrible aftermath.) What are your experiences?

 

[Transform]

It's definitely better than nothing, and by a LONG way. If it is something nasty like N-ethylpentylone or similar then an EZ test, or any reagent test from a different brand would easily alert you to this.

Regarding your strange experience, we would need more information such as which test exactly was used to test it, and then how much/how often you take this substance (to understand if tolerance could be skewing the effects of the substance).


Usually with reagent tests you would want to combine multiple tests, I would go for marquis reagent, liebermann reagent and mandelin reagent personally. This gives you much more confidence in the final result.

 

[GaumarolBostich]

Frequence: like every 6 weeks.
Dosage: usually classic 250 mg, in this case 300 mg.
Test: Cathinones / Bath salts.
Indication: light yellow.

We were clearly missing the Dopamine properties and found ourselves in a "tunnel". On the come down bronchoconstriction - unusual.

I understood that Liebermann and Mandelin can't differentiate Cathinones at all.

 

[Phobos]

I'm interested in this as I've just tried something sold as 4mmc but it didn't match the effects, similar vibe but much less roll feeling to it, almost a functional stim that can be fun when you increase the dosage in terms of what the effects where, the roll like feelings of 4mmc were absent.
I've been told it could be 2mmc but have never tried any other cathinone other than 4mmc knowingly.

are the guys at Energy Control able to differentiate 4mmc from say 2 and 3 mmc, 4 mec, 2cmc etc?

 

[GaumarolBostich]

are the guys at Energy Control able to differentiate 4mmc from say 2 and 3 mmc, 4 mec, 2cmc etc?

Afaik yes, depending on the quality level of the test you ordered.

I've been told it could be 2mmc

Your description sounds like it. 2-MMC is leaning towards Cocaine in effects and you have to dose more than with 4- or 3-M. Some say it is less recreational but I wouldn't underline that, at least in higher doses like 200 mg + oral.

 

[4DQSAR]

There IS a specific test that will reliably differentiate cathinones from amphetamines called the copper-neocuproine test.

But as I understand it, it relies on the formation of a copper complex so in truth what it is actually detecting is an α-aminoketone i.e. if it IS a cathinone, it cannot differentiate chain-length. The potency of cathinones being highly dependent on chain-length with n-pentyl>n-butyl≈sec-pentyl>n-propyl≈sec-butyl. Possibly the colour change may differ but with so many cathinones out there, I'm uncertain of the viability given that depending on chain-length, a primary or secondary amine my be more potent or a tertiary amine might be more potent depending on the chain-length.

The Zimmerman test IS supposed to differentiate between 4MMC and 4CMC but again, I don't know if it can detect chain-length or indeed that it really is a -Cl or simply a para moiety that isn't labile.

I wonder, has anyone tested bupropion née amfebutamone (Wellbutrin™) because that is a cathinone? As far as I can work out, every nation where bupropion is used medically has a specific clause in their laws to make it an exception from the blanket ban on cathinones. Few people seem to enjoy it's effects but it IS active and IS legal so if I know that, I assume people who produce cathinones also know that. A cut that would not be detected?

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I had no idea wellbutrin was a cathinone -- why do you figure that less people enjoy wellbutrin than (lets go extreme) MDPV?

Sure I could see it being used as an undectable cut or even more sinister a "Detectable 'inactive'" --- Like a bunch of caffeine / ephedrine or w/e with just enough wellbutrin in it that if people check it for cathinones it still pops and they are left confused....

 

[4DQSAR]

I had no idea wellbutrin was a cathinone -- why do you figure that less people enjoy wellbutrin than (lets go extreme) MDPV?

Hence the name change. I specifically stated 'bupropion née amfebutamone' because marketing managers understood that patients may have read about 'cathinones' and therefore Wellbutrin™ would might have been less PROFITABLE.

I have never touched the stuff. But the N-tertbutyl moiety is likely why it's less active. I am aware that it's not as water-soluble as most cathinones so painful to snort. But it isn't the ONLY salt of bupropion and the laws do not specify which salt the medical form needs to be in. In fact, laws go to great lengths NOT to differentiate between addition salts!

The makers chose the hydrochloride which is classed as 'soluble' as at STP solubility is around 25mg/mL which I think is a marginal definition. But I note that for XR formulations the less soluble hydrobromide salt is now used...

But put that into perspective - the solubility of bupropion sulfate at STP is 312mg/mL! Or, in other words, more soluble than 4MMC hydrochloride. Painless to snort.

Again, if I know this, I ASSUME those in the business of supplying to people who play the 'mystery powder game' also know it.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

I have never touched wellbutrin. I use to have to test batches of mdpv as I felt if anyone should be the guinea pig.... we are talking 3-5 mgs. Enough to know if it was a long night of research or a short night as the bags were not labeled correctly...

That is interesting to me for a couple of reasons.... I know a friend who was prescribed wellbutrin when he admitted to having a cocaine addiction and he told me the doctor talked about it like it was a surefire answer ..... Never got the logic until now I kind of do I guess .... If the effects are cathinone like at all. He did indeed use to snort it now and than but everyone was handing out ritalin at the time so that didnt last long. (plus he only quit to pass drug tests so 3-7 days at a time-ish lol)

Huh so those kids that said you could get high on wellbutrin may not have been as much of clowns as I thought -- learn something every day.

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, ironically Wellbutrin™ IS a DNRI so yes, I suppose it would be at least a little bit like cocaine.

But elsewhere I've noted how with cathinones, chain-length is important with n-pentyl being the most potent and most dopamine selective hence MDPV being more similar to cocaine (if I remember correctly - not touched either for 3 decades). With 4MMC that labile para-methyl makes the half-life short but increasingly 4CMC (the well-known neurotoxin) is being sold as 4MMC. I would expect a longer duration of action.

Now I DO know 4-BMC did turn up but evidently buyers disliked it so much, it failed. I would love to know why buyers didn't like it but with cathinones and amphetamines, toxicity is I>Br>C>F but I don't know what the range is i.e. I don't know if 4BMC is twice as toxic or an order of magnitude more toxic.

But I just felt that if people CAN test for bupropion, they probably should as it would be my pick for a cut given it's legal and costs $50-$100/Kg. I mean, as cheap as any other cut I can think of with the benefit of fooling tests and sort of being active.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

But I just felt that if people CAN test for bupropion, they probably should as it would be my pick for a cut given it's legal and costs $50-$100/Kg. I mean, as cheap as any other cut I can think of with the benefit of fooling tests and sort of being active.

It is a valid point if you wanna know forsure you dont have a hodgepodge of legal CNS stimulants and some wellbutrin to flag positive for a cathinone .... and dont have other ways of testing.

I remember when selling drugs was risky enough but selling fake drugs was a sure ticket to being snitched out..... IMO now selling drugs is a sure ticket to being snitched out anyways; therefor the incentive for honesty is simply less; if there at all.

Fck the blackmarket

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, who knows if bupropion sulfate is subjectively different?

This may appear an odd thing to suggest but I know from multiple BLers based in New Zealand that when 'cooks' are unable to acetylate morphine to heroin, they produce the hydrochloride salt of morphine and every report noted onset is midway between heroin and morphine sulfate. So clearly addition salts can make a noticable difference. I don't think absolute solubility is in action but rather the rate as which the drug is deprotonated (so can cross the BBB).

I have no idea of how fast insuffused bupropion acts but I DO know most people favour things that act faster.

As a side-bar, a patent APPLICATION is optionally visible to others and while predatory journals will print any old rubbish as long as you pay, a patent application is much cheaper. So the forward-thinking distrubutor could in theory write a patent stating that the sulfate salt has a clinical advantage so a producer who is dubious would obviously search and if a patent application exists, that's a LOT of credibility for the price as the intial application only costs around £200. It's the long and complex reseach to decide if the application IS novel that costs the money but I have seen people obtain publically visible patent applications with absolutely zero intent of ever paying to have them researched and accepted as 'novel' i.e. to yield full patents. In retrospect, I'm almost sure they did so for the credibility. In that case the desire for credibility was different - they wanted to sell shares so saying they had 'patents pending' likely increased confidence in potential buyers.

'The ways of commerce are exceedingly odd'
-P.G. Wodehouse