Addiction Benzos are not recreational drugs (note to MYself)

[Dr. John Thackery]

lately i’ve tapered almost totally off opioids (ONE mg of methadone per day)….combine that with the fact that i’ve also quit daily mundane use of weed except for the occasional concert of special outing or event (camping etc) .

so there’s obviously a drug shaped hole in my life.

i used to really get off on benzos….but i was on decently high doses of methadone with it too….by themselves - i don’t feel anything at all except immediately just passing out (which i do love in and of itself). but admittedly ive been going into
them tricking myself into thinking that i am
going to experience some
sort of high or relaxation.

NO. these are tools. these are not drugs that get me off or make things more fun. i need to cut that mentality out really fucking quick before i end up with a new dependency.

do your best to motivate me. i know the absolute horror of benzo withdrawl so you don’t need to so much scare me out of that although it is the scariest and most severe consequence of these drugs. but this little substitution for weed and opioids needs to stop NOW.

 

[fuckabout89]

lately i’ve tapered almost totally off opioids (ONE mg of methadone per day)….combine that with the fact that i’ve also quit daily mundane use of weed except for the occasional concert of special outing or event (camping etc) .

so there’s obviously a drug shaped hole in my life.

i used to really get off on benzos….but i was on decently high doses of methadone with it too….by themselves - i don’t feel anything at all except immediately just passing out (which i do love in and of itself). but admittedly ive been going into
them tricking myself into thinking that i am
going to experience some
sort of high or relaxation.

NO. these are tools. these are not drugs that get me off or make things more fun. i need to cut that mentality out really fucking quick before i end up with a new dependency.

do your best to motivate me. i know the absolute horror of benzo withdrawl so you don’t need to so much scare me out of that although it is the scariest and most severe consequence of these drugs. but this little substitution for weed and opioids needs to stop NOW.

I use to get bottles of clonazepam 120 I think I just eat like 7 to 8 of em day and just sleep all day. Then I run out and the panic would set in oh man is the withdrawal awful.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Tools all the way they for coming down, insomnia days and the occasional i feel a seizure coming up. For the last one Clobazam shines.

The least impairing, or to be felt essentially, Benzo on Earth afaik. Like before Pyrazolam. Known as Frisium the only 1.5 Benzo in use here freezes a possible upcoming seizure in its steps and on paper anxiety to. Without any noticeable sedation.

Which seems the main re creative effect of a Benzo. Correct when wrong never took em for fun. But looking at people who do. Total amnesia and walking around sedated or vegetating on a couch nodding. On 10mg Flunitrazepam and some Diazepam too.

Looks a bit embarrassing honestly.

 

[streaM Freak]

lately i’ve tapered almost totally off opioids (ONE mg of methadone per day)….combine that with the fact that i’ve also quit daily mundane use of weed except for the occasional concert of special outing or event (camping etc) .

so there’s obviously a drug shaped hole in my life.

i used to really get off on benzos….but i was on decently high doses of methadone with it too….by themselves - i don’t feel anything at all except immediately just passing out (which i do love in and of itself). but admittedly ive been going into
them tricking myself into thinking that i am
going to experience some
sort of high or relaxation.

NO. these are tools. these are not drugs that get me off or make things more fun. i need to cut that mentality out really fucking quick before i end up with a new dependency.

do your best to motivate me. i know the absolute horror of benzo withdrawl so you don’t need to so much scare me out of that although it is the scariest and most severe consequence of these drugs. but this little substitution for weed and opioids needs to stop NOW.

REALLY nice job on getting off of methadone.

You seem to be a pretty smart guy, i wonder if there is something both engaging for you but also relaxing? Like perhaps some sort of puzzle game on your phone or something?

For motivation, really what helps me is remembering that i get many things back when in recovery.
I get my time back.
I get my money back.
I get my self control back.
I get my decision making abilities back.

If you were to ask yourself, are you willing to give up your time, money, control, and decision-making ability? I think that's hard no.

I think, for me at least, a myth i told myself when using is that nothing would get better when i stopped and it would mostly just be painful to give it up. Well i don't think that's true - the thing is we don't know what we haven't yet experienced until we experience it. Using sort of suspends our development. But i do know you'll get back time, money, control, and decision making. That sounds like a pretty damn good deal.

 

[Featherfall]

lately i’ve tapered almost totally off opioids (ONE mg of methadone per day)….combine that with the fact that i’ve also quit daily mundane use of weed except for the occasional concert of special outing or event (camping etc) .

so there’s obviously a drug shaped hole in my life.

i used to really get off on benzos….but i was on decently high doses of methadone with it too….by themselves - i don’t feel anything at all except immediately just passing out (which i do love in and of itself). but admittedly ive been going into
them tricking myself into thinking that i am
going to experience some
sort of high or relaxation.

NO. these are tools. these are not drugs that get me off or make things more fun. i need to cut that mentality out really fucking quick before i end up with a new dependency.

do your best to motivate me. i know the absolute horror of benzo withdrawl so you don’t need to so much scare me out of that although it is the scariest and most severe consequence of these drugs. but this little substitution for weed and opioids needs to stop NOW.

If you just want to pass out, i reccomend low dose quetapine, used as a sleeping med, drop 25mgs and your out. I imagine thats easier than doing xans every now and then as i m sure you know all the horror storys, i just recently saw a guy talk about how his cravings never got better. So yeah, also congrats on the methadone taper!! hell yeah brother good fucking job!

 

[WellTram]

They are recreational if getting relaxed, calm and not getting seizure is recreational.
No other use, now they never makes me fall asleep also....I like my diazepam just like I like my primethazine.

 

[CalicoCatLover]

Oh yeah, one great thing about my mother making me homeless at work is I could have drugged myself properly (not really, it doesn't say pain relief) before getting fired. Its okay once you take a million sugar pills you're much more likely to take 6 Xanax xr (chewed up) at a time until you get into a car wreck. I just cried in the cop car...they let me go I just cried they couldn't tell I was fucked up. Mother came to drive me home, it was a car wreck outside of blockbuster. Anyway there goes my benzo. Until years later....I wouldn't recommend a "recreational" amount but I'm disabled

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Definitely tools. I can't get by in my career without tools... I always joke that if kratom gets banned I'm putting in my two weeks. Think I'd say the same for alprazolam.

Yayyyy! Life!!!

 

[lolis my thesis]

I really want to do the same. How long, do you think, it may take me, to go from 15mgs to one mg?
Im comfortable at 15 mgs but it took me a couple years to get here, starting from 40?
Thanks for any advice you can think of.

 

[Ki3ly]

Nothing good can ever happen by taking benzo everyday. Do you know why, because you will always need more. And it will take a long time for relief
from that.

You have been taking them for a long time. Now it's going to take equally that amount of time to quit or even longer. It is a very long drawn
out process..

But why should it matter because if you are taking less and less all of the time then you will be on your way to success.
A better success by making less mean a whole lot more instead.

You will still be taking some until you don't take anymore. Which will be a long long time from now. The sooner you start it will be as wonderful as possible.

Who wouldn't want to live free. I take them once in a while but it's not anything that I have to be a slave of everyday. And that feels even more wonderful
than the benzo itself.

You have to learn how to take less everyday and Taper. It will take a long time however. Look how long you have been taking them already.

Then you will have to overcome PAWS. Post Withdrawal Syndrome. That goes on for many years. And is going to be your life. That's why if you get good
enough, once in a while if you have a very bad awful day you can take one.

But that's only a last resort or if you have been off of them for years.

Paws can be depressing Boring moody but that is life. It's how we go through it. Not a slave to having to wonder where your next benzo is coming from.

And it's a very unique feeling. To everyone. Imagine waking up and experiencing the day without a benzo. And that you don't even have to have a benzo. That's not Real Life however.

No matter how awful it is or might not even be imagine seeing what it can be like without a benzo. But honestly it feels spectacular. It feels really good once you can get to
this point of no more benzo's. If you ever do.

Or being a slave or having to be thinking so. I have been through all that too. But believe me it feels so good to be off of drunken benzo binge and slump so that you always have to have more more more.

Anyway you have to stop taking so much. No one needs that much of anything so why are you doing that. If you cut back and take less it will be so much better for your mind and body.

And also it's not scary having to walk around thinking that you need something every single day. Everyday will just be an experience instead.

And if life existed without a benzo, believe me you will still be alive. And not worrying about it.

Do it slow and you won't even notice. Nothing can possibly happen to you in a benzo free world. You will be just fine to live Free. With freedom. .. Without them.

tldr ; You won't die without them. But taking too many will kill you.

I really want to do the same. How long, do you think, it may take me, to go from 15mgs to one mg?
Im comfortable at 15 mgs but it took me a couple years to get here, starting from 40?
Thanks for any advice you can think of.

 

[Themailman]

It sucks being an addict but also having clinical level anxiety and ADHD. I was prescribed both xanax and adderall before age 18. But I am now expected to navigate life without medication deemed invaluable for functioning.

I have such a weird relationship with benzos. I find them incredibly euphoric simply by how much relief they give me from my neurological afflictions... but I also immediately become psychologically dependent and woefully physically dependent.

I am also one of the rare individuals who experience paradoxical benzo effects. I have even had doctors tell me to my face this condition doesn't exist. I can assure you it does. There is some sort of genetic abnormality I have at a specific GABAa subunit, which is further exacerbated by alcohol use. For whatever reason certain benzos will induce glutamate instead of inhibiting it. Definitely happens more with RC benzos, but also happens with pharma, too. Particularly diazepam for whatever reason.

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

I really want to do the same. How long, do you think, it may take me, to go from 15mgs to one mg?
Im comfortable at 15 mgs but it took me a couple years to get here, starting from 40?
Thanks for any advice you can think of.

are you talking about methadone or benzos? it’s easy to go from 30 to 1 mg than 1 mg to 0 mg with methadone.

there seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread (from others not necessarily you) regarding my original post.

i am at the bottom of a METHADONE TAPER NOT BENZOS.

benzos i am not dependent on but just know myself and have to be extremely careful not to get dependent on them.

really should have a rule, benzo use no more than once every 2 weeks.

 

[lolis my thesis]

Why taper methadone; to almost 0, if as you say its easier to taper; yet hard to quit? Can a person taper from 1 mg to .5mg in order to facilitate quitting? I take it for pain, and still seem to get good amount of pain relief from 15mgs.

Thank you for your response; I was indeed referring to only to methadone. Ive had doctors suggest switching to suboxone then to subblocade after assuming suboxone is tolerable for me. What's the point of switching after 20 years to another long acting opioid with a known prolonged withdrawal for both. with no real warning regarding precipitated withdrawal? No tricks to to weather going from 1mg to 0mg? what is the point of taking 15 mgs and continuing to taper if its going to be harder to quit from 1 than taper from where I already am (15 mgs, granted pretty easy). would cessation after arriving at 1 mg be made easier by switching to a short acting opioid like norco for a few weeks?

are you continuing tapering from that last milligram? can you perhaps start skipping days, or even holding out for more hours between doses to make things easier?

To be clear, I am talking only about reduction of methadone, not benzos. Thank you good sir and I do applaud your reduction to 1mg methadone even if its still gonna be hard to quit.
I have been on it for 20 years, not complaining about the medication; but how about trading to a short acting opioid painkiller for a week or so maybe that would lesson the withdrawal from the last mg.

 

[Dutchie007]

I only take them to avoid the comedown. Oxazepam 15mg is enough for me. It’s not a sleep medication, but it relaxes my body and calmes the brain. I sleep like a baby for 6 hours straight and wake up not hungover.

Def not a recreational drug

 

[paranoid android]

I only take them to avoid the comedown. Oxazepam 15mg is enough for me. It’s not a sleep medication, but it relaxes my body and calmes the brain. I sleep like a baby for 6 hours straight and wake up not hungover.

Def not a recreational drug

Much like ativan oxazepam does nothing to me. Granted i took it when i was on 6mg's of clonazepam a day so no wonder i felt nothing. Granted oxazepam from everything ive rread seems not to be recreational. Granted i would say ativan is as well as i once took 20mg's of it and still felt nothing

 

[Ki3ly]

However, on thread topic ...
Sorry I don't know much about methadone, however I think that I would almost trade it for a benzo. For the better deal I think. Anyway benzo's are bad 'nuff. Wink wink.
That's kind of heavy though. I bet methadone is even safer than the benzodiazepines though. I think I would just take less methadone than a regular dose. It sounds good anyway.

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

Why taper methadone; to almost 0, if as you say its easier to taper; yet hard to quit? Can a person taper from 1 mg to .5mg in order to facilitate quitting? I take it for pain, and still seem to get good amount of pain relief from 15mgs.

Thank you for your response; I was indeed referring to only to methadone. Ive had doctors suggest switching to suboxone then to subblocade after assuming suboxone is tolerable for me. What's the point of switching after 20 years to another long acting opioid with a known prolonged withdrawal for both. with no real warning regarding precipitated withdrawal? No tricks to to weather going from 1mg to 0mg? what is the point of taking 15 mgs and continuing to taper if its going to be harder to quit from 1 than taper from where I already am (15 mgs, granted pretty easy). would cessation after arriving at 1 mg be made easier by switching to a short acting opioid like norco for a few weeks?

are you continuing tapering from that last milligram? can you perhaps start skipping days, or even holding out for more hours between doses to make things easier?

To be clear, I am talking only about reduction of methadone, not benzos. Thank you good sir and I do applaud your reduction to 1mg methadone even if its still gonna be hard to quit.
I have been on it for 20 years, not complaining about the medication; but how about trading to a short acting opioid painkiller for a week or so maybe that would lesson the withdrawal from the last mg.

the only reasons doctors want to switch you from methadone to suboxone - has nothing whatsoever to do with medicine. it has to do with drug laws. methadone is schedule 2 and suboxone/bupe is schedule 3.

the less schedule 2s a doctor prescribes the less scrutiny they get from the dea.

i’ve called doctors out on this in a tactful way:

“what is the medical justification for switching me to a partial agonist (suboxone) with inferior analgesia? I understand that you are highly scrutinized by the dea for prescribing a schedule 2 drug (methadone) and to protect your liability against the dea you would prefer to not prescribe schedule 2 drugs, but i am trying to understand what the pure medical justification is” - then you also list every horrible aspect of long term buprenorohine in the medical literature (there is a lot and it will confuse the shit out of them because most physicians don’t understand pharmacology).

if you do it respectfully it helps.

i’ve straight up told my doctor that i know methadone is worse for me (long QT, less selective of a drug) but that i know it’s his only option to give to me for legal reasons having nothing to do with medicine. He did say methadone is less addictive than hydrocodone and i countered that with the lower scheduling of hydrocodone a mere 15 years ago. and that it also only matters if one is a drug addict and i’ve been in opioids for nearly two decades and i’m obviously not an addict and a successful upstanding citizen (they do not know my real background). There was a tacit admission it was for legal reasons but they will never outright say this because they would be admitting they are not practicing medicine based on science.

it just can’t be argumentative but you have to let them know that you know thhey are lying to you. Yes they are pressured by the dea but when they practice medicine and medicine and science are not the reasons for why they do something - this is an ethical violation and they know it.

suboxone analgesia is SHIT. do not let them switch you. you will have no pain releif.


as far as my tapering - i never keep it super regimented. i do what i can and what i can tolerate to get lower and lower but still maintain sleep and functionality in life and not suffer too much. the chances are very high that i will resume opioids again or go back to a higher analgesic dose so i dont see too much a point in making myself suffer a hard taper or withdrawal. i just do what i can to get low or off when it can.

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

you know….i made this post for the reasons discussed in the OP, i wanted to take benzos to basically black out or fast forward or relax through the day….

there’s a other layer to this though that i have to worry about.

i also want to take them specifically to fall asleep/pass out when im not tired (ie middle of day or early afternoon).

like it’s not about looking for a high….its about wanting to escape reality in a different way - by completely shutting it off into a sleep or pass out. it wasn’t always this way but it’s crazy, like i think i prefer this type of escape from reality as opposed to let’s say opioids or weed where im awake and just high. isn’t sleep the ultimate escape from reality completely turning it off?

so being honest with myself about why i like this benzos - it’s scary because i realize how deep the draw is.

 

[lolis my thesis]

Dude, thank you so much for putting into words what I could never hope for achieving myself without becoming argumentative.
That said, my pain doc retired, his P.A., whom he referred me to, after reviewing my files and knowing I had been prescribed methadone as well as being cut poked and jabbed for over two decades; he was more than accomodating regarding continuing me on a methadone dosing protocol. Even advised me against trying to reduce it too fast or at all for that matter. Given I have gone from 60mg to 20mgs which he noted.
He did mention having to see me every three months, but I've done that for years , and to schedule an EKG in the next year for monitoring me for prolonged QT.

It is my nurse pracitioner who is pushing me towards suboxone, but he's honestly not my first choice for educated practicers of medicine. Twenty years lurking on Bluelight and I feel much more educated on drug protocols than he is; if merely thru osmosis plus countless hours being injected or surgered upon.

But a cordial relationship with all of them is key; as my nurse practicioner prescribes me benzos...

 

[Didgital]

Sounds like you at least recognize the potential for an issue. Question. Can you stop using the benzos right now? If so you should.

I've had two separate benzo dependencies and one of the took me better part of a year to REALLY stop, and the 2nd one I didn't taper hardly and had a seizure.
Never want to go back to that kind of life once you're physically dependent you pretty much have to be on them to some extent all the time.
I remember saying it could be worse, but not much IME. I was scared to travel especially out of the country which is my fav thing to do ever for fear I'd go into withdrawl or freakout..