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Social In line with P&S: Invention of good and evil Philosopher Hanno Sauer

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The invention of good and evil:
The Invention of Good and Evil is a philosophical exploration of the origins,

development, and evolution of human morality. Sauer investigates how concepts of

good and evil, morality, and ethics emerged in human societies and argues that these

notions are human inventions shaped by cultural and historical contexts.
Sauer argues that the origins of morality lie in evolutionary adaptations that promoted

group survival. In small, hunter-gatherer societies, behaviours like empathy, fairness,

and reciprocity emerged because they enhanced cooperation and reduced internal

conflict. These traits were critical for survival in environments where humans relied

heavily on mutual aid and collective decision-making.

During this period, moral norms were simple and localized, focusing on immediate

concerns such as sharing resources, maintaining group cohesion, and resolving

disputes: which he argues led to the development of the ‘punitive instinct’ . Moral

behaviour was deeply tied to face-to-face interactions within small groups.

2. The Agricultural Revolution: The Birth of Complex Norms

The advent of agriculture marked a turning point in human morality. With the rise of

larger, sedentary communities, new moral challenges emerged, such as property rights,

hierarchy, and social inequality. Sauer highlights how moral norms began to adapt to the

demands of organized societies, which required rules to govern complex interactions

and ensure stability.

Moral systems became institutionalized, often supported by religious or mythological

narratives. These narratives provided a framework for justifying moral norms, such as

laws regarding theft, marriage, and inheritance, which were designed to address the

challenges of living in larger, stratified societies.

3. The Axial Age: The Emergence of Universal Morality

The Axial Age (roughly 800 to 200 BCE) saw the development of moral philosophies and

religious traditions that introduced universal principles of justice, compassion, and

human dignity. Thinkers like Confucius, Buddha, Socrates, and others laid the

groundwork for moral systems that transcended local tribes and applied to humanity as

a whole.

Sauer points out that this shift was driven by increased contact between diverse

cultures through trade, migration, and warfare, which created a need for moral

frameworks that could bridge cultural divides. The emphasis on universal values

represented a move toward abstract reasoning in morality, reflecting the growing

complexity of human societies.

4. Modernity: Individual Rights and Moral Progress

With the Enlightenment and the rise of modern science, morality underwent another

transformation. Sauer discusses how moral thinking became more secular, rational,

and focused on individual autonomy and human rights. Ideas of equality, freedom, and

justice gained prominence, challenging traditional hierarchies and oppressive systems.

Technological advances, globalization, and democratic ideals further reshaped moral

norms, leading to broader recognition of issues like gender equality, racial justice, and

animal rights. Sauer underscores that this era reflects humanity’s ability to critically

examine and revise moral systems in light of new knowledge and changing values.

5. The Present and Future: Emerging Challenges

In the contemporary era, morality continues to evolve in response to global challenges

such as climate change, artificial intelligence, and socio-economic inequality. Sauer

suggests that moral progress involves refining existing frameworks to address these

unprecedented issues. He advocates for a pragmatic, reflective approach to morality

that balances universal principles with the complexities of modern life.Conclusion

Sauer challenges the idea that moral principles are timeless truths handed down by

divine or metaphysical sources. Instead, he presents morality as a dynamic and

evolving construct that changes in response to social, economic, and technological

developments. For example, he explores how shifts in societal structures, such as the

rise of agriculture, industrialization, and globalization, have transformed moral norms

over time. Sauer illustrates that what is considered "good" or "evil" often reflects the

needs, priorities, and power dynamics of particular societies.

A key theme of the book is the plurality and diversity of moral systems. Sauer examines

how different cultures have developed distinct moral frameworks, often influenced by

their unique histories, environments, and challenges. He argues that this diversity

underscores the idea that morality is not a universal truth but a human invention

tailored to specific contexts. Sauer’s approach highlights the potential for moral

relativism while also acknowledging the shared human capacities—such as empathy

and reason—that underlie all moral systems.

According to Sauer, human morality has transformed from simple, survival-driven

norms to complex systems of universal values and individual rights. These changes

highlight the adaptability of moral systems in addressing the evolving needs of human

societies. By recognizing morality as a human invention, Sauer encourages us to

critically engage with and shape our moral frameworks to better address contemporary

challenges.

I know it's a long read, however, do you ever ask yourself why things are the way they are? Do you accept information based on credibility or because everyone else believes this way? Just because something has always been this was doesn't make right.
 
Well, I can certainly see that this line of thinking can appeal to those individuals that want to believe that mankind is "controlling it's own destiny"; and by extension that they themselves can control their circumstances.
 
I’m surprised by your statement, you are saying
Well, I can certainly see that this line of thinking can appeal to those individuals that want to believe that mankind is "controlling it's own destiny"; and by extension that they themselves can control their circumstances.

My question is why are we not questioning the hand me down rules and regulations that society lives by? Why do we as humans believe without questioning in the first place. It's not about controlling our own destiny as you say, it's about what is true to me as an individual not what is true to somebody else.

By not questioning for your own sake and wellness you are essentially putting your life in someone else's hand who for all you know may or may not know what they are doing, because they are doing what they learned from somebody else, who may not know what they are doing.

iDK, I think more people should ask questions and research why things are the way they are rather than following the crowd.
 
iDK, I think more people should ask questions and research why things are the way they are rather than following the crowd.
This x 1000

Are you suggesting that those questions have not been asked? 🤔

No, they have been asked ad nauseam ...

Please note that I don't suggest that any questions, let alone those, be not asked...

Keep asking ... if only to make sure that to the best of our ability that we follow the data to the results and not the reverse. :cool:
 
Have you seen the movie Soylent Green? You say that's science fiction, look at the advertisement industry, how did big tobacco convince society to take up smoking? We learned from each other, I'm saying make up your own mind in life don't follow just because everyone else is.

Morales and ethics are not universal, they are an inherited sense of right and wrong. What was morally right or wrong in the past may not have the same impact on society today. These rules of society change as society changes to meet present needs and understanding.

Take drug use, in much of today's society, thanks to government framing and punitive laws against drug users in some parts of society drug use is considered a morality problem instead of a health concern.

I can remember when dancing was considered a sin, same goes for music, if wasn't gospel or church music it was a sin to listen to. Jazz was considered devil music....the list goes on. The only authority people should listen to is the authority of finding the truth.
 
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Have you seen the movie Soylent Green?
As a matter of actual fact, I have.

Morales and ethics are not universal, they are an inherited sense of right and wrong. What was morally right or wrong in the past may not have the same impact on society today

How about killing others and taking things from one person without their permission? When will it become "fashionable" enough to become the norm.. Will it be "good" then?

I can remember when dancing was considered a sin, same goes for music, if wasn't gospel or church music it was a sin to listen to. Jazz was considered devil music....the list goes on. The only authority people should listen to is the authority of finding the truth
So can I, I lived in rural North Carolina for four years. It was solid "Southern Baptist" territory and I, being a Catholic, was treated as the Devil's helper. I'm pretty sure nothing has changed there. I can remember when it was shocking that they opened an ABC store in "the big town". If I remember correctly your father was a preacher. Is this why you feel this so deeply? I truly can understand that. I simply don't feel the need to dissect each and every thing my neighbor does.

I participate in this sub forum as a MOD in order to foster participation and to keep conversation to a "civil" and "neighborly" level, but I sincerely try to keep my comments as neutral as possible. If you are hoping to debate me; I'm afraid it will be quite some time before I will willingly participate actively in a debate. I leave that to others in this sub forum to do that as they desire.
 
iDK, I think more people should ask questions and research why things are the way they are rather than following the crowd.
I have always said if a person can keep asking why they will get the answers they are looking for. Ex: I am sad, why? Because xxx happened, why did that upset, because it contained xxx and I grew up jaded that way. :) Why? and so on and so on.

Most people don't think and most do have their head up their ass. Never asking why, just blaming and being miserable.
 
As a matter of actual fact, I have.



How about killing others and taking things from one person without their permission? When will it become "fashionable" enough to become the norm.. Will it be "good" then?


So can I, I lived in rural North Carolina for four years. It was solid "Southern Baptist" territory and I, being a Catholic, was treated as the Devil's helper. I'm pretty sure nothing has changed there. I can remember when it was shocking that they opened an ABC store in "the big town". If I remember correctly your father was a preacher. Is this why you feel this so deeply? I truly can understand that. I simply don't feel the need to dissect each and every thing my neighbor does.

I participate in this sub forum as a MOD in order to foster participation and to keep conversation to a "civil" and "neighborly" level, but I sincerely try to keep my comments as neutral as possible. If you are hoping to debate me; I'm afraid it will be quite some time before I will willingly participate actively in a debate. I leave that to others in this sub forum to do that as they desire.
That’s cool no desire to debate but your tone implied at 9:39 yesterday (wasn’t able to copy paste) I was in the business of recruiting members? If I misunderstood I apologize, no one including myself has the right or authority to assume they have the answers, because they don’t. We are all in some way searching whether that is a priority or not.
I post things that are interesting to me not selfishly, I don’t know where other people are at in life, so my posts may not reflect other people’s interests.

Truth is people and society changes to meet and address present needs and circumstances, there is no set in stone way of living or belief. Although traditional belief systems would have you believe they are the only way. I can see how this is beneficial to the so called preferred belief system but with inclusion you eliminate all other possibilities that are equally as valid. There is no Us and Them, we are all here doing our thing the best we know how.
 
That’s cool no desire to debate but your tone implied at 9:39 yesterday (wasn’t able to copy paste) I was in the business of recruiting members? If I misunderstood I apologize, no one including myself has the right or authority to assume they have the answers, because they don’t. We are all in some way searching whether that is a priority or not.
I post things that are interesting to me not selfishly, I don’t know where other people are at in life, so my posts may not reflect other people’s interests.

Truth is people and society changes to meet and address present needs and circumstances, there is no set in stone way of living or belief. Although traditional belief systems would have you believe they are the only way. I can see how this is beneficial to the so called preferred belief system but with inclusion you eliminate all other possibilities that are equally as valid. There is no Us and Them, we are all here doing our thing the best we know how.
Thank you very much for expressing your beliefs. I have striven to keep this sub forum to be a place where one can speak about their beliefs for almost a decade.

Religious thinking and atheists, as well as anyone else are free to speak their minds here in this sub forum as long as they do not insult others beliefs. The only time anyone is asked to stop is when they insult other users or engage in hate speech. No one is compelled to answer another post if they do not wish to. Anyone can and has actually expressed their belief here, and I hope that never stops.

Believing that mankind can fix everything is just one point of view. There are others who do not believe this for a variety of reasons, not just rigid religious belief sets. There are those who hold that humans have consistently failed to improve themselves for purely human and selfish reasons AND some who hold this as a religious belief.

Stating this is just stating ones beliefs and does not imply that it is the only way to think, nor does it state the reason one believes that one does it is not likely to occur.

Feel free to discuss this with anyone who actually wants to. It is actually a low traffic area and I do appreciate your efforts to increase traffic and discuss these things. Most people do not wish to engage in this, lately. They just follow the crowd and follow the LCD. Why don't you step up and join the Moderation team and change it from the inside? I am old and cannot live forever.
 
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Thank you very much for expressing your beliefs. I have striven to keep this sub forum to be a place where one can speak about their beliefs for almost a decade.

Religious thinking and atheists, as well as anyone else are free to speak their minds here in this sub forum as long as they do not insult others beliefs. The only time anyone is asked to stop is when they insult other users or engage in hate speech. No one is compelled to answer another post if they do not wish to. Anyone can and has actually expressed their belief here, and I hope that never stops.

Believing that mankind can fix everything is just one point of view. There are others who do not believe this for a variety of reasons, not just rigid religious belief sets. There are those who hold that humans have consistently failed to improve themselves for purely human and selfish reasons AND some who hold this as a religious belief.

Stating this is just stating ones beliefs and does not imply that it is the only way to think, nor does it state the reason one believes that one does it is not likely to occur.

Feel free to discuss this with anyone who actually wants to. It is actually a low traffic area and I do appreciate your efforts to increase traffic and discuss these things. Most people do not wish to engage in this, lately. They just follow the crowd and follow the LCD. Why don't you step up and join the Moderation team and change it from the inside? I am old and cannot live forever.
I sympathize and feel the same as you regarding age. Presently I'm Mod for NM and SLR that's enough for now. Although I would be interested in helping with P&S should the time come.
 
I sympathize and feel the same as you regarding age. Presently I'm Mod for NM and SLR that's enough for now. Although I would be interested in helping with P&S should the time come.
How about Trip Reports ?

It's a big ask, I get it... I am seriously lacking time and energy to adequately cover it properly <3
 
Ok no problem I’ll help out. Will I be coMod with you or do you plan to retire altogether?
 
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Ok no problem I’ll help out. Will I be coMod with you or do you plan to retire altogether?
Whatever you feel comfortable with. I am happy to help, but actually prefer that you take over. I'm almost 90 y/o brother

We still have to pass it thought formal processes to be approved, but you stepping up means a lot

It's my birthday today so I'll send all the messaging tomorrow.
 
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