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The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

Most of my posts on DMT-Nexus were deleted and I was banned. I had this one in my notepad and I think it's valuable, so I'll re-post it here.


Yes, people have micro/lowdosed both oral DMT and harmalas alone. Here is one quote:

subtle increase in visual acuity, focus ability, outlook, sexual energy, social outgoingness, creativity, meditation ability, openness to love in my heart, feeling lighter on my feet, feeling energy flow through me, and a sense of tapping into a larger wisdom of the world,

Warrior, 2013-10-23, Microdosing Ayahuasca Analogue (ACRB + SR)

Another one:

In large doses ayahuasca can produce very dramatic effects including visions and a substantially altered sense of perception but in these small doses it just wakens the brain up a little, enhancing mood, creativity, inspiration, visual perception, and practical effectiveness.

Holly Paige, http://foodforconsciousness.blogspot.com/p/reactivating-pineal-gland.html

Sabnock101 has a ton of experience with both:

in fact for awhile there i was trying to find a way to use Aya/oral DMT as a kind of daily vitamin or supplement/medicine because on DMT (at least during the peak once the come up settles down and stabilizes) i feel more sober than sober, i am functional, i can do things more easily that i have difficulties with in my day to day, i feel great on it lol, and not like the "oh bro i'm soooo high i feel amazing!!!" kinda great, i just feel naturally good, i feel pumped up and ready to go, i'm more intelligent on it, my language skills and word flow improves, i start using more sophisticated language and words that i didn't really know or would never really use, it brings out a more expansive and higher awareness/Consciousness within myself, and i feel that as a species we are desperately lacking that higher awareness/Consciousness, which if we had it in our day to day, shit would change up real quick lol, for the better.
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2024-07-10, reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca

As for what led me to drink daily for 4 years lol, nothing really, it just felt like a constantly unfolding/ongoing connection and school of sorts, i didn't take it for any specific reason, i just took it to see what would happen and what all i could do with it. Me taking it so regularly just sorta naturally happened because due to the lack of tolerance i could just go deeper and deeper and let things continue to unfold and continue to advance amongst the different levels/layers of things, there's lots and lots and lots to learn in those states.

As for changes, all i can really say is what is commonly said, there's me before Ayahuasca, and then there's me after Ayahuasca, i'm in a completely different place within myself compared to where i was prior to Ayahuasca. A lot of the changes it's brought about are moreso internal even though there's some outward signs obviously lol. My working with Aya and the experiences and understandings i've gained through it has opened me up to a whole new world i never imagined existed prior to Ayahuasca, and a lot of it has stuck around, internally, even though it's hard to remember or even communicate/express/detail but deep down it's remembered, and anytime i take the medicine and reconnect to those states/spaces, all that knowledge and information and experience and understanding comes right back and you remember everything, so as some folks i've seen have mentioned, a lot of the memories and details and understandings are like state-specific, so you have to be in a certain state for that level of connection to come back up to the surface, kinda like dreams. As far as integration goes, that's of course been challenging, as it can be, but aside from my temper flare-ups from time to time (which again, i've come to link to my Folate deficiency i'm trying to correct), i'm a much better person for having worked with Ayahuasca and i owe my life to it, i absolutely do not know where i would be today had i not worked with Ayahuasca, so much has happened in my life because of working with Ayahuasca that i wouldn't be who i am today without it, it's been the only truly real thing in this very fake/false/illusory world of ours, that i've come across, nothing else compares to the level of depth and realness and Truth that comes to the surface while on Ayahuasca, it's real shit, not saying everything experienced is real, but when Truth strikes, you'll know lol.

So overall it was largely positive and beneficial and i had no negative/adverse effects/reactions to it, it's been the best medicine for someone like me, in fact i seem to be made for it, whether it's the Autism or my heritage or whether i was some shaman in a past life, idk, but i function pretty well on it and i feel right at Home with it, it's a natural part of our physiology anyways (DMT being natural to the body) so it's only natural that people feel at Home with it, it's a chemical messenger that connects us more deeply to ourselves on multiple levels and so it just feel natural, normal, right, it's only ever been a positive for me personally.
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2024-07-10, reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca

In this post he mentions that he's taken harmalas in heavy doses for 12 years straight:

Also, it goes without saying, if it weren't for the DMT, Ayahuasca wouldn't really do anything, ya know? Have you taken Harmalas/Caapi/Rue on their own without DMT in heavy dosages? Sure there's some stuff there but it ain't DMT land lol. Ayahuasca needs an Entheogenic component, whether DMT, or mushrooms, or something else, even Cannabis can work in a bind if you're wired in a way for it to tap you into some of those aspects to some degree, you need a Light, otherwise the Harmalas are just medicinal and there's nothing really there, certainly nothing worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, or necessitating ceremonies, or anything even particularly spiritual, no action at all. If DMT was not in Ayahuasca, Ayahuasca wouldn't be sought out, at all, it would be completely uninteresting and unappealing, there'd be nothing there. So when you say "DMT trip", well, remove the DMT from the equation, and you don't have anything truly worthwhile.

The magick and the mysticism and the spiritual connection and all the stuff we can experience, the main action of Ayahuasca, comes from the DMT, even though the Ayahuasca effects come from the Harmalas, and so for example, Psilohuasca and Ayahuasca are both Ayahuasca even though you use different Light sources, but it's the Psychedelic/Entheogenic component that is the main element, even though the Harmalas are the main active ingredient, the DMT is the experiential component that without it there's just nothing really there, and this is coming from a guy who has taken Harmalas, in full/heavy dosages, daily pretty much, for 12 straight years and ongoing, speaking from extensive experience, there's not really much of anything to the Harmalas themselves without a Psychedelic component, and a lot of the things people experience with DMT/Ayahuasca can be experienced also with other Psychedelics/Entheogens, because it's the Psychedelic/Entheogenic component which is what gives the active effects, and so what you're really saying is that you don't seem to realize that the DMT is the most important aspect of Ayahuasca, so reducing it down to a "DMT trip" is a rather silly thing to do, because that's where all the magick comes from, without it, no magick.

Also, nevermind the fact that DMT is endogenous to the body and is very likely released at death, near-death, possibly birth and some other things, and is likely the source for spontaneous naturally occurring mystical experiences.

Btw, you can also orally activate DMT using Moclobemide, which gives you the exact same effects/experiences that you get when taking it with Harmalas, except that the Harmala effects are not in the equation, so you get to see what the DMT itself does without being filtered through the effects/synergy of the effects of the Harmalas. And i assure you, it's just the same and just like it is when using the Harmalas, so the main shebang definitely comes from the DMT, and to reduce DMT down to a "trip" is to do it a huge disservice and injustice, imo.
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2024-07-10, reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca

For evidence that shows that harmalas have nootropic potential, see this post: reddit.com/r/harmalas

Psychedelics also have nootropic potential:

Psychedelics Promote Structural and Functional Neural Plasticity. Ly C, Greb AC, Cameron LP, Wong JM, Barragan EV, Wilson PC, Burbach KF, Soltanzadeh Zarandi S, Sood A, Paddy MR, Duim WC, Dennis MY, McAllister AK, Ori-McKenney KM, Gray JA, Olson DE. Cell Rep. 2018 Jun 12;23(11):3170-3182. doi: 10.1016/j.celrep.2018.05.022

Psychedelic spurs growth of neural connections lost in depression. Bill Hathaway, Yale News, Jul 5, 2021

Psychedelic Mushrooms Reduced Human Cellular Aging by 57%, Increased Lifespan in Mice 30%. Andy Corbley. 2025-07-23. World at Large


"[They're] holyier than thou over there. Plus you have to become one of the cool kids to post in the cactus section. I havnt gone back in months. [They're] kind of dicks in all honesty."

2014-03-16, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19706057#19706057


"I would suggest not posting my posts on DMT Nexus, because many others who have either got banned or seriously flamed by “The Traveler” who is the owner, but he uses other user accounts to do his dirty work, which are just “The Traveler” secretly posting as multiple users. He has at least a dozen other user names he uses to attack people he doesn’t like. This way he makes it look like a whole bunch of people are ganging up on you when in reality it’s just him attacking you from different user accounts. It’s kind of sick. This is how he orchestrated the fake THH tests. They are all fake posts by him under different user names. This way it appears as though the fake tests were performed by different individuals to make the fake tests look more real. It’s completely fake. If you have the THH tested by a professional firm like I did, you will find their tests are completely inaccurate, and obviously fake."

"I pissed off the forum owner really badly because I complained about the fake purity tests being posted on their site and tried to expose it. They responded by edited my posts and banning me."

69ron, Jul 12 08, https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/her...chemical-of-chocolate-t3926405-s70.html#p2900
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Psychotomimetics, clinical and theoretical considerations: harmine, Win-2299 and nalline. Pennes, H., Hoch, P. 1957. Am J Psychiatry, 113(10), 887–92. 10.1176/ajp.113.10.887

This 1957 research paper examines the psychotomimetic (psychosis-mimicking) effects of three drugs—harmine, Win-2299, and nalline—in 32 mental patients at the New York State Psychiatric Institute.

Key Findings:

The study found all three drugs produced effects similar to mescaline and LSD, including visual hallucinations, perceptual distortions, and altered consciousness. However, unlike mescaline and LSD at typical doses, these three drugs consistently caused drowsiness and mental clouding, creating a semi-delirious or confusional state.

Individual Drug Results:

• Harmine (a plant alkaloid): Required high intravenous doses (150-200mg) to produce hallucinations; caused cardiovascular effects (low heart rate and blood pressure), tremor, nausea, and sensory changes. Oral administration wasn't hallucinogenic at tested doses.

• Win-2299 (synthetic cholinolytic): Produced severe mescaline-like reactions at 6mg, with one subject experiencing full delirium at 10mg, including complete disorientation and complex hallucinations.

• Nalline (morphine antagonist): Caused visual hallucinations in most subjects at 20-30mg doses, with some experiencing severe perceptual disturbances and delirious reactions.

Theoretical Implications:

The researchers concluded these drugs fundamentally produce an "acute organic reaction type" due to mental clouding. They suggested the differences between these drugs and mescaline/LSD may be quantitative rather than qualitative, and that all such psychotomimetics might basically produce toxic reactions. The study also challenged the theory that an indole nucleus is necessary for psychotomimetic activity.

–Claude Sonnet 4.5
 
This study determined that tetrahydroharmine, a major constituent of B. caapi, is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor:

Buckholtz1977

Inhibition by β-carbolines of monoamine uptake into a synaptosomal preparation: Structure-activity relationships. Buckholtz, N. S., Bogga...
misc29.blogspot.com misc29.blogspot.com
 
Phyllodium pulchellum contains two chemicals that are similar to tetrahydroharmine:

N-methyltetrahydrocarboline

7-methoxy-N-methyltetrahydrocarboline

This plant also contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, tryptamine, and N-methyl-3-indoylmethanamine.

Effect of Alkaloids Isolated from Phyllodium pulchellum on Monoamine Levels and Monoamine Oxidase Activity in Rat Brain. Cai, L., Wang, C., Huo, X. K., Dong, P. P., Zhang, B. J., Zhang, H. L., Huang, S. S., Zhang, B., Yu, S. M., Zhong, M., Ma, X. C. 2016. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med, 2016, 6826175. 10.1155/2016/6826175


In one person tetrahydroharmine was similarly hallucinogenic when given in three times the dose of harmaline.

β-carbolines, psychoactive compounds in the mammalian body. Airaksinen MM, Kari I. 1981. Part II: Effects. Med Biol, 59(4):190-211. Studies on the hallucinogenic and other CNS effects


Can someone re-post this in DMT-Nexus's Scientific Papers and Journal Articles forum?

https://forum.dmt-nexus.me/forums/harmalas.90/

 
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5-HT2 said:
¿Acaso la telepatía no es igual a la tetrahidroharmina?
¿Presente únicamente en cantidades significativas en B. caapi (y quizás en otras plantas amazónicas?), facilitando así supuestamente una experiencia más telepática que, por ejemplo, la ruda siria? de echo antes de llamarse tetrahidroharmina, se llamaba telepatina.
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"I personally find Syrian Rue to be absolute fucking garbage, the body load knows no bounds and it's so aggressively intense that it throws most people off the right path at some point or another during the trip. Banisteriopsis caapi is the classic for ayahuasca, and I much prefer it, especially in combination with Passiflora incarnata, but these days I mostly just put straight harmaline and harmine in a gel cap so that I can consume an accurately melasured dose, but other than accuracy of dose there isn't much reason to favor a pure crystal over the plants." @Esperighanto 2026.04.18 https://www.bluelight.org/community/posts/16417492

"caapi feels MUCH smoother + cleaner + less disorienting then Rue"  CosmicLion  2010-05-31  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12660421#12660421

"ayahuasca with rue feels alot more rough than with caapi."  Private message sent to me

"caapi is far superior in my opinion. you can keep adding more vine and get a deeper experience (and a stronger purge) whereas rue get really unpleasant if you take too much, with rue its a fine line between full MAOI inhibition and purging to early and having a dud experience."  divinebovine  2014-12-01  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20913390#20913390
 
Harmine, harmaline are different.

Both, observably in their physical characteristics as well as experientially.

Sufficiently pure harmine is stimulating.
Sufficiently pure harmaline is sedating.
Sufficiently pure THH causes “tracers” and “color enhancement”
Sufficiently high enough doses of any of them cause “tracers” and “color enhancement”
Too much is disorienting, muddy in the eyes - annoying.

I prefer subuccal administration of harmaloids, I prefer harmine over harmaline.

I have taken harmine (subuccal r.o.a.) @ 50-75mg daily for periods of up to 3 months and over a period of about 4 years with no anecdotal perturbance. Less and I wanted more, more and I wanted less.

I have glowed head to toe and seen all of my fluids fluoresce for weeks on end.

I found that eventually my body just didn’t want it any more, and after about two weeks it was entirely sweat out of my system.

Rue seeds contain vascicine, vascicinone, harmine, harmaline, harmane, norharmane, harmol, harmalol etc etc etc.

Some of those compounds are no fun in their isolated form, but together as an entourage there are other adjacent compounds that work “together” or to counteract one another.

I do not prefer any of the red / neon yellow / green fluorescent compounds. I prefer the aqua / sky blue colored ones (harmine, thh - respectively)

Harmine is more acicular, harmaline is more blade-like.

They have analgesic effect on mucous membranes, in that way there is a similar physiological sensation in the face to cocaine.
 
(~);} said:
I have taken harmine (subuccal r.o.a.) @ 50-75mg daily for periods of up to 3 months and over a period of about 4 years with no anecdotal perturbance.
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Did that compromise your ability to sleep?


Low-dose daily caapi causing paradoxical anxiety/insomnia



"Has anyone had intense sleep / dream interactions when taking harmala salts ~2-3 hours before sleeping?"

…

"Examples of what I experience: a recurring white light that triggers me to bolt awake, intricate pattern / geometry tracers whenever sleep is interrupted, tossing and turning, fatigue the next day (as if I didn’t sleep through the night). I could hypothesize why this happens, though it’s probably best not to make unsubstantiated claims."

stuartroelke  2026-05-18  h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/1tgmguu/sleep_dream_interactions/

"I took some too soon before sleeping last night. Even though quite tired, CEVs and even OEVs kept me awake for a couple of hours. I won't be doing that again.....))"

Axlerion  2026-05-22  h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/1tgmguu/sleep_dream_interactions/onah5zi/


"These drugs’ property of significant, prolonged,
almost complete suppression of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep is believed to be responsible for their therapeutic effect in narcolepsy (31)."

Pharmacist Toolkit: Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors. Rex Lott, PharmD, BCPP. American Association of Psychiatric Pharmacists (Lincoln, NE). 2021, revised, Sep 27, 2022. (Other Disorders, page 7)
 
red22 said:
Did that compromise your ability to sleep?


Low-dose daily caapi causing paradoxical anxiety/insomnia



"Has anyone had intense sleep / dream interactions when taking harmala salts ~2-3 hours before sleeping?"

…

"Examples of what I experience: a recurring white light that triggers me to bolt awake, intricate pattern / geometry tracers whenever sleep is interrupted, tossing and turning, fatigue the next day (as if I didn’t sleep through the night). I could hypothesize why this happens, though it’s probably best not to make unsubstantiated claims."

stuartroelke  2026-05-18  h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/1tgmguu/sleep_dream_interactions/

"I took some too soon before sleeping last night. Even though quite tired, CEVs and even OEVs kept me awake for a couple of hours. I won't be doing that again.....))"

Axlerion  2026-05-22  h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/comments/1tgmguu/sleep_dream_interactions/onah5zi/


"These drugs’ property of significant, prolonged,
almost complete suppression of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep is believed to be responsible for their therapeutic effect in narcolepsy (31)."

Pharmacist Toolkit: Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors. Rex Lott, PharmD, BCPP. American Association of Psychiatric Pharmacists (Lincoln, NE). 2021, revised, Sep 27, 2022. (Other Disorders, page 7)
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For me no. I would take it after brushing my teeth, before my morning coffee (7:30-8:30a).

I was at the time and still do eat one meal a day (dinner) and found that the subjective effects would last through the day, I would usually feel that the effects from the morning dose were ended at around 4:30-5:30p in the evenings I would smoke ~ .25-.5g cannabis (I have for over 20 years) at around 7:00p and again around 10:00p and never had any trouble sleeping.

Prior to beta carbolines I was almost pissing myself every hour on the hour, after and during and after beta carbolines my urination patterns leveled out to normalcy.

Prior to beta carbolines I was having periods of the day where I felt I couldn’t keep my eyes open, after beta carbolines I do not experience that “crash”.

Prior to beta Carbolines I would experience heart palpitations (I had for a few years, that and the peeing was what led me to explore beta carbolines) - I do not experience that any more, however sometimes during that period I would experience “pulsing” in my vision around 12-1pm (e.g. 75mg harmine, 300mg caffeine, 6mg nicotine vape repeated) and I never liked that, but I think the caffeine and nicotine were doing the heavy lifting there…

I could see where taking harmine later in the day could cause sleep disturbances ; I have employed it on purpose to this effect (all nighters)
 
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