• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Opioids Tramadol is a Serotonergic painkiller

Serotonin biosynthesis goes kind of like this
Tryptophan ==> 5-hydroxytryptophan ==> serotonin

The first reaction is catalyzed by tryptophan hydroxylase, which is the rate limiting step of serotonin synthesis. Feedback inhibition occurs, where high levels of serotonin inhibit the enzyme.

The second reaction, by aromatic L amino acid decarboxylase is subject to a lot less feedback inhibition and other regulation.


What I am getting at, is that l-tryptophan isn’t as efficient at increasing serotonin levels as 5-hydroxytryptophan.

Also, I am unsure if serotonin reuptake inhibitors tend to decrease brain serotonin levels due to higher levels of serotonin utilization. It seems more likely that reported decreases in serotonin signaling downstream of SSRI/SNRI use are due to downregulation of signaling pathways, rather than simply by using up brain pools of serotonin (which are always going to exist in an equilibrium between synthesis and release; and SSRI/SNRIs aren’t going to affect the release as much as they will slow the reuptake).
You do not want to increase serotonin in the brain. Amphetamine tends to build up serotonin release in the brain with regular use, which is part of the reason why amphetamines produce diminishing effects when you use them too often.
 
However, lately - my level of pain, despair, stress, and anxiety have been raising my blood pressure.

Am I wrong for quitting Cannabis? Am I being too "Self-righteous" about this?
You're serotoninmaxxing that's why you are feeling pain, despair, stress and anxiety.
 
When in cannabis for some reason I tend to feel the pain more.
Anyways if you’re worried about the serotonin effect why don’t you ask for codeine ? It’s weaker so I think he will have no problem prescribing it to you just higher dosage and you’ll be out of this serotonin situation if it covers your pain you’re golden else back in Tramadol.
In general doctors don’t want to change medications if there’s not a legit reason like a bad reaction side effect he see that it’s working as intended without causing trouble so if it’s not broken he doesn’t fix it. It would actually be more complicated to stabilize you in a new medication you may have side effects or will not work good for pain or addiction problems. Doctor don’t see a problem he only hears that you complain but in “theory” no real side effects to speak of.
 
You're serotoninmaxxing that's why you are feeling pain, despair, stress and anxiety.
If I'm reading you correctly, my brain has been shooting out (overutilizing) too much serotonin for too long (6+ years on Tramadol). Therefore the post-synaptic serotonin receptors become less sensitive because they decrease in their amount.

So what's the answer here? The pain will stay no matter what. I DO have one anti-serotonin drug called Cyproheptadine. (It makes me too drowsy for functionality which is why I RARELY use it - not even for sleep).

I am a spiritual man, which means that I DO believe in some miracles. Vitamins? Supplements? Anything? Any ideas?
 
Some doctors have a creepy-sounding mantra that they're taught in med school:

"If all you have is a hammer, than everything's a nail."

That sounds fatalistic, and very nazi-esque if you ask me. (But I'm an open-minded man, so feel free to lay your suggestions on me!)
 
Well, I used many opiates and opioids but tramadol is something special for me maybe because I am ultrarapid cyp2d6 metabolizer but when I take liquid tramadol preparation, in 30 minutes i feel like I took low dose amohetamine. My pupils are bigger, i am hyper, very social and talkative and as the time goes by it starts to change into ( in my case ) potent and more classic opioid effects like nodding and my pupils will shrink too. It also lasts much longer than codones.
I also use dihydrocodeine and it is absolutely nothing like tramadol, it's great painkiller but the effects are completely and only opioid-like. It is better for relax and for most types of pain but tramadol is better for my pain caused by neurological damage.
 
Well, I used many opiates and opioids but tramadol is something special for me maybe because I am ultrarapid cyp2d6 metabolizer but when I take liquid tramadol preparation, in 30 minutes i feel like I took low dose amohetamine. My pupils are bigger, i am hyper, very social and talkative and as the time goes by it starts to change into ( in my case ) potent and more classic opioid effects like nodding and my pupils will shrink too. It also lasts much longer than codones.
I also use dihydrocodeine and it is absolutely nothing like tramadol, it's great painkiller but the effects are completely and only opioid-like. It is better for relax and for most types of pain but tramadol is better for my pain caused by neurological damage.
How did you get LIQUID Tramadol? Through a compounding pharmacy? Are you in USA or somewhere else?

I NEVER heard of Liquid Tramadol.

However, I have taken Liquid Gabapentin (by AMNEAL). It was a GODSEND! It helped sleep, mood, and pain. But now my local pharmacies no longer "custom order" meds from custom manufacturers and I'm stuck with their nasty nauseating version of Gabapentin.
 
Tramadol is a raecemic mixture of two enantiomers (1R,2R) and (1S,2S). One is a semi-rigid bioisostere of codeine so an opioid, the other seems to be responsible for monkeying around with monoamines. In the UK I think nefopam (Acupan™) is just a monoamine modulator and is considered as potent as morphine. It would be funny if ER rooms in the US all swapped to nefopam - that would stop people getting a strip of Vicodin for a 'you can't X-ray pain' diagnosis.
 
Liquid for oral and parenteral (i.m., s.c. and i.v.) use exists.
Only the Amneal manufacturer (of LIQUID Gabapentin) works on me.
(I'm very picky, sensitive, and allergic to weird ingredients so don't even ask why I don't settle for the cheaper, shittier manufacturers)
 
How did you get LIQUID Tramadol? Through a compounding pharmacy? Are you in USA or somewhere else?

I NEVER heard of Liquid Tramadol.

However, I have taken Liquid Gabapentin (by AMNEAL). It was a GODSEND! It helped sleep, mood, and pain. But now my local pharmacies no longer "custom order" meds from custom manufacturers and I'm stuck with their nasty nauseating version of Gabapentin.
I am from EU and we have 96ml bottles of 100mg/1ml of tramadol for oral use. Tralgit, Tramabene, Tramal. Every one of these three provide same effects - 3 brands of tramadol oral solution. They also prescribe only 10ml versions but I always have the big versions.
 
EU has universal healthcare (pennies on the dollar compared to USA). I live in USA.

Europeans consider healthcare to be a human right.
 
I'm not here to argue with anyone about anything. Especially neurotransmitters. Because I have an education and background in neuroscience and, frankly, for all your online reading most of you haven't a clue as to how neurotransmitters actually work. And I'm too old (senior citizen) and too tired to educate anyone. You'd anyway have to start with college zoology (human anatomy and physiology) classes and end up in some senior level neurophysiology classes. It wouldn't hurt if you also had some neurochemistry/neuropharmacology classes under your belt. Anyway, I will give you these few pointers:

There are far more neurotransmitters that affect mood and thinking than the three everyone likes to cite whenever talking about these things.

How a neurotransmitter actually works depends as much on what part of the brain it's active in as what it is. Meaning, that a neurotransmitter can have an excitatory effect on neurons in one place, and inhibitory effects in another. Which is why it's dumb as a bucket of sand to spout off about this one or that being a so called feel good neurotransmitter or to say (or believe) that any neurotransmitter has a blanket effect globally in the brain.

And this is the one that annoys me the most: opioids work the way that they do because they mimic natural neurotransmitters called endorphins, enkephalins, et. al.. Therefore opioids are working in a sense as neurotransmitters in their own right, producing their own cascade of effects in neurons that have nothing to do with serotonin or dopamine or any others. Trying, as most of you do, to frame the discussion in terms of only three neurotransmitters, you know, the pop ones, the cache ones, the meme ones, only shows how little you actually know. It's far, far more complex than you seem to realize. You're not really helping anyone with such discussions. You're only jerking each other off.

Feelings hurt? Like I give a shit. Want to challenge me on opioid neurochemistry? If you don't know who Solomon Snyder is or what he did, don't bother. You see, almost fifty years after I graduated from college I still read neuroscience for entertainment. Only I read texts at such a high level of academic complexity that even with my education I only barely grasp a lot of what I am reading. But hey, that's how you learn. And because I continue to learn, it's probably the only reason I'm not drooling into a bib in a home for people with Alzheimer's, which runs heavily in my family.

Having said all that, I will offer this tidbit of anecdote. In the discussion over tramadol, anybody who says that tramadol can't induce serotonin syndrome or can't cause seizures is a complete fool, even if he has an M.D. Like many other idiots I gobbled handfuls of tramadol for years, back when you could buy it online in quantity with no problem. I've only had two grand mal seizures in my entire life, and there's no history whatsoever of them preceding. Both times it was because I took huge doses of tramadol mixed with other drugs that I later learned were highly contraindicated. Because I was a dope fiend looking for an opioid buzz and not taking tramadol for a bona fide medical reason under the supervision of a doctor. One of them was Paxil, an SSRI. Bang. Grand mal seizure. In my home, at night, by myself, immediately after eating a huge meal. When I came to I was on my back. How simple would it have been to die right there, if I'd thrown up, as many people do in the grips of a seizure, and asphyxiated on it. I'd have been found blue and dead by my wife when she returned home from her night shift at work. Diagnosis was exactly that, serotonin-induced seizure as a result of taking two highly serotoninergic meds at the same time. I had a second a few years later, this time from mixing tramadol and a no-longer-available opioid called Darvon or propoxyphene. I had no idea that it too was serotoninergic because I thought it was, you know, just an opioid. But that's another lesson I hope others will absorb: no opiate or opioid is just an opiate or opioid. Every single one of them have knock-on effects that most people don't even suspect. People who take tramadol should never mix it with anything else, recreational or prescription, except under the strict supervision of a doctor. I had friends who were on the same tramadol train to shitville that I was on. Most of them had seizures of their own as a result. One of them behind the wheel of a car moving on the highway. It's a dangerous drug and it's shit recreationally besides. If you're taking it in the huge doses required to get any real fun out of it, you're a seizure looking for a place to happen.

And, like Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that.
 
I've been on Tramadol for 6+ years for un-relenting back pain that does not improve with YEARS of physical therapy. This highly resonates an old family problem: GALLSTONES.

Now, Tramadol is starting to show signs of "tolerance". It used to have a very therapeutic antidepressant effect.

I asked my scumbag doctor to replace it with a more conventional painkiller like percocet (which I've successfully take before - NO WITHDRAWAL WHATSOEVER!!!) But these doctors care more about losing their mansions than facing a wrongful death lawsuit. (I'm NOT suicidal, but I am considering legal action).

So I figure this: Since it basically sucks the serotonin out of your Neurons, this leads to depletion of L-Tryptophan (not the cheap 5-htp shit).

I want to start taking L-tryptophan daily to replenish my body's supply of this vital amine precursor to serotonin. I have nothing left to lose.


yes even ppl that have had massive sirgieries fail don’t get opioids.

they do script bupe and methadone tho, the former not working
 
Now, Tramadol is starting to show signs of "tolerance". It used to have a very therapeutic antidepressant effect

You could explore TLR4 blockers (antagonists). There's several OTC options including agmatine, pregnenolone, aspirin, palmitoylethanolamine, CBG, curcumin, creatine, thymoquinone, gingerol. All have sustainable analgesic qualities and most have antidepressant effects.

There's also several botanical analgesics (terpenoids mainly) which are quite effective, synergistic and seem to cause minimal tolerance (making them sustainable options). I'm not referring to poppies.
 
Last edited:
You could explore TLR4 blockers (antagonists). There's several OTC options including agmatine, pregnenolone, aspirin, palmitoylethanolamine, CBG, curcumin, creatine, thymoquinone, gingerol. All have sustainable analgesic qualities and most have antidepressant effects.

There's also several botanical analgesics (terpenoids mainly) which are quite effective, synergistic and seem to cause minimal tolerance (making them sustainable options). I'm not referring to poppies.
Thanks! I'll try them!
 
My words cannot describe how sorry I am you had to go through surgery without post-op opioids.
i don’t

i don’t give a fuck what i have to do. it’s not humane or within the bounds of human rights, it breaks international law, fuck these ppl doing this here. when i had surgery i made sure i had what i needed one way or another

many other ppl dont though. lots of suicides from it too.
 
Top