Getting Out of the Mindset of ALWAYS Needing Substances?

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Is it possible? How do you do it?

I'm trying to cut back a bit but find that, even if I'm not in any withdrawal yet, I just feel this weird empty-bored-lost feeling where I don't know what to do or...IDK, almost like a habit?

But I've noticed I always need to constantly trying to make myself feel better (RE: depression, anxiety, boredom, loneliness) with SOME sort of chemical or pharmaceutical.
Not even necessarily drugs. Even if I'm out somewhere - like I had a diabetes appointment this morning - I had to be drinking caffeinated drinks and smoking cigarettes the whole time (except when in the actual appointment, ofc...though I did take a coffee in).

 

[placebonaut]

you've pretty much described my problem.

There's only really 2 things that have ever helped me
1. Exercise - but I need to be in the zone where I'm enjoying it and hungry to do more before this is viable, right now I'm very unfit and not motivated
2. Obsessive hobbies - If there's something that I'm really into I will obsess about it and it acts as a great distraction. The problem is I'm over 50 and there's a long long list of hobbies that I've done, typically at most they provide relief for 6-18 months, but I ran out of new things to try a long time ago

just out of interest do you have ADHD? I think I may do but it's undiagnosed, I'm waiting for an eval, wondering if this is 1 of the symptoms....

 

[Featherfall]

can always get into literature and become snobbish about goehte and schelling or something like that

 

[KurtAurelius]

My theory is activities are merely another form of drugs.

You need to have a very stimulating life in order to not desire drugs, as drugs are replacements for many chemical rewards that are released naturally through activity’s in our life.

I can’t just chill and watch shitty tv, or nonsense on my phone as it’s just not rewarding or intriguing in any sense.

I need a lot of exercise (10-15km of walking a day) a full body workout every 48 hours, then creative outlets mine being music and writing, with likeminded individuals to talk to and then a direction to head in with some kind of purposeful activity.

Without these drugs become very much alluring as life is dull, boring and lacks any intrinsic value.

 

[Jnowhere]

Is it possible? How do you do it?

I'm trying to cut back a bit but find that, even if I'm not in any withdrawal yet, I just feel this weird empty-bored-lost feeling where I don't know what to do or...IDK, almost like a habit?

But I've noticed I always need to constantly trying to make myself feel better (RE: depression, anxiety, boredom, loneliness) with SOME sort of chemical or pharmaceutical.
Not even necessarily drugs. Even if I'm out somewhere - like I had a diabetes appointment this morning - I had to be drinking caffeinated drinks and smoking cigarettes the whole time (except when in the actual appointment, ofc...though I did take a coffee in).

Caffeine and nicotine are drugs. Nicotine is one of the most psychologically addictive drugs.

Caffeine can be; as I found out over 2 decades ago, physically addictive in high doses over time.

I ran out of coffee and had no way to get any for almost 24 hours and being use too having 3 or 4 pots of coffee a day; as I found out, can cause a massive( worse than a typical migraine headache, type of headache where I was truly unable to function normally from the awful pain which was resolved when I got more coffee. I actually had to do a coffee taper.lol

I have only been to Starbucks once. For a bagel. Never for coffee. But judging by prices and the long lines, I would say that they are almost like drug dealers,lol. Seriously look at cost and the wait people will go through, to keep getting their specialty coffees or whatever.

So you take a bunch of needed meds and others that just seem to help.

This( I am on a number of meds and my doctor would have me on more if I let him). This becomes a part of your life. When you take them away, some might cause catastrophic and potentially fatal problems( your diabetes meds, depending on how severe and whether you are insulin dependent or not) but serious problems any which way. The truly needed meds get added onto meds that help your medical problems or keep you from going on a mentally ill psychotic episode.

Then add in other med which may not be needed to live but make you able to function. Pain meds for some, like me and you, able to function. This and other meds are make medical problems more bearable.

Then the doctors give you other meds that help with other symptoms and sometimes these are to reduce the problems with other meds.

So then your body becomes physically dependent on drugs like pain killers, benzos, anti depressants, ect...

Then throw in other meds to that the doctor prescribes for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, ect...

These become routine. Throw in caffeine for energy and nicotine because well you like all smokers are addicted to it.( almost all, and people that only smoke when they drink don't count, unless they are a total drunk.)lol.

Then you end up on so many meds that when you feel like shit you are not even sure which drug you maybe having issues with.( tolerance builds up, forgot to take this or that, ect....)

Then you end up totally dependent on so many drugs it is ridiculous.

If I were on as many drugs as my doctor has me on and would be willing to use more, it would hit double digits( nicotine included)( he wants me to stop that, but take other meds also)

So, then it is time to take an inventory of your meds. Ok, I will die if I stop this or get really sick( not withdrawals, I mean diabetes meds in your case) Then meds like pain killers that make medical conditions bearable. Then there are the ones that seem to be helpful such as hugh vitamin D mega doses,high blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds( not on them but my doctor wanted me to be, but this was an anomaly in my eating habits which I am trying to correct).

Anyways you have this whole long list of drugs.

Which ones can you cut out, without any major issues?

I ask this because many times people are over medicated on stuff they don't really need.

You, like I am trying to do; is to cut out those that aren't necessary. Nicotine is one of them, but quitting is hard. Also it helps with times I can't physically eat.

Then there are pain meds which make me functional and another drug that could kill me if I quit taking it. Then there are other more helpful drugs like meds for high blood pressure.

Then you start to look at all you are on or what you take and the doctors think you could use but are not necessary.

I have trimmed down and refused meds I don't need.

Then there are meds that make my life more bearable. Then that is where the issue of cutting down is a problem.

Can you cut out caffeine and nicotine? Can you live without morphine( and still function)?

What about the psychological type meds. Are they to treat a real mental disorder; if so, then they are necessary.

Take an inventory of all you take and find the ones that are non-negotiable, such as diabetes meds, any truly needed psych meds, ect....

Then look at meds that are helpful and don't have any risk.

Then see what you can realistically cut out.

That list becomes small. I have two bad medical conditions that make certain drugs basically needed to function normally. Then there are the drugs I have refused or cut out.

I am left with cigarettes. , that is really an issue. Because it helps at times, when my pancreatitus keeps me from eating and makes it bearable.

So then you look and then you realize, shit I am a mess but what can I do.

I don't know all the drugs you take, but if they are needed and the ones that make life bearable are included what is left?

Only you can really know. You need to take a total inventory and see if there are medications or drugs you can live just fine, without.

I have already trimmed my list down, and Well I only really started smoking in my later 40's and have been smoking moderately for a few years and it actually helps at times.

So I am down to an upper single digit number of meds and substances, and cutting out vitaminD which I only take occasionally is all I am left with cutting out at this point.( ok, I could live without cigarettes but quitting sucks).

So, my advice is to take a real hard honest look at all your meds( from your past descriptions it is a lot and it seems many are needed).

You maybe stuck, on being on all sorts of meds. If you have mental health issues and from the sound of it, those that are needed, ( not an insult, mental disorders need to be treated) along with diabetes meds and any other medically needed drugs).

So it seems like cigarettes and coffee are possible all that are left.

Unless you you are also taking any rather useless drugs that you can live without.

You might just be stuck taking a ton of meds to live as good of a life as possible, medically.

In your case, quitting smoking maybe one of the few things you can cut out. Good luck with that one,lol Sorry, I smoke also and for some reason I only smoke in one room of my house. I literally can be out all day with no cigarettes and not even think about them. I use a machine and make my own and only smoke in the main place I spend my time awake indoors. If I am upstairs for half a day I might not smoke until I go to that one living room. It is psychological, but If I were to leave my house for a week I would probably be able to quit easily.

So basically, you need to take a realistic inventory of all your meds and any substances and see what you can live without. It maybe several or it maybe just the cigarettes.

Coffee is not really that bad as long as you don't drink a lot of it and find yourself with no available caffeine; then OUCH big time.

But if there are drugs that are useless and you can cut them out, then I would do so.

If there are none, then I guess you are kinda stuck.

As a side note; the taking of pills almost becomes like this weird ritual for old people. I hate that image. But if you can cut out some unnecessary substances or drugs, then I would do so. If not, then fire up a cancer stick and learn to accept that this is what you are stuck with.

Seriously, good luck and don't discontinue any necessary medications.

 

[streaM Freak]

Also just believe in yourself. And try to understand the "why" beyond depression, anxiety, ect - what about specific situations? And also, ask yourself why do you want to be sober? How do you envision your ideal living situation?

For hard drugs I had to physically move locations and purge my phone contacts, basically "cold turkey" with an entire lifestyle change.

For smoking tobacco / vape, and alcohol, that was a longer, slower progression similar to a taper but I didn't pressure myself to make it structured like a taper. I just simply tried to "cut down", and I celebrated each small step.

Also, I use a sober tracking app. Its okay to be proud of yourself. Your head will become more clear. You will start to experience things that you wouldn't have experienced while being distracted by substances.

Its not a quick turnaround, which is the difficult part. I believe we all have the power to turn it around, it's just do you have the patience?

 

[Kellsee]

Our brains are prediction driven.
When your environment has became too predictable for too long the neural activity in your brain begins to drop. That low stimulation can make you feel like you need to find something else to do so you do. I think a lot of us have felt the same way that you’re describing. It’s almost like we’ve became scared of solitude. We’re constantly seeking stimulation. Start challenging yourself to not become occupied with anything. To not do anything with your hands. A lot of my problem with smoking is a hand habit….I don’t know what else to do with my hands lol. Sometimes we reach a challenge threshold. Maybe try finding something new to do with your time.

Some of this is closely tied to behavioral addiction. It can happen even if no substance is involved.

It’s one of the biggest reasons that these platforms and all the social media can become a problem too. They are engineered for rapid novelty with variable reward hits and endless scrolling. Eventually your experience begins to change. Boredom becomes sharper and harder to tolerate. Quiet moments without any stimulation begin to become uncomfortable. Your brain becomes trained to expect intensity. It’s not always a drug addiction. But it’s a behavioral loop that’s became strong and disruptive. But because of neuroplasticity it can be reversed.

 

[placebonaut]

Caffeine and nicotine are drugs. Nicotine is one of the most psychologically addictive drugs.

Caffeine can be; as I found out over 2 decades ago, physically addictive in high doses over time.

I ran out of coffee and had no way to get any for almost 24 hours and being use too having 3 or 4 pots of coffee a day; as I found out, can cause a massive( worse than a typical migraine headache, type of headache where I was truly unable to function normally from the awful pain which was resolved when I got more coffee. I actually had to do a coffee taper.lol

I have only been to Starbucks once. For a bagel. Never for coffee. But judging by prices and the long lines, I would say that they are almost like drug dealers,lol. Seriously look at cost and the wait people will go through, to keep getting their specialty coffees or whatever.

So you take a bunch of needed meds and others that just seem to help.

This( I am on a number of meds and my doctor would have me on more if I let him). This becomes a part of your life. When you take them away, some might cause catastrophic and potentially fatal problems( your diabetes meds, depending on how severe and whether you are insulin dependent or not) but serious problems any which way. The truly needed meds get added onto meds that help your medical problems or keep you from going on a mentally ill psychotic episode.

Then add in other med which may not be needed to live but make you able to function. Pain meds for some, like me and you, able to function. This and other meds are make medical problems more bearable.

Then the doctors give you other meds that help with other symptoms and sometimes these are to reduce the problems with other meds.

So then your body becomes physically dependent on drugs like pain killers, benzos, anti depressants, ect...

Then throw in other meds to that the doctor prescribes for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, ect...

These become routine. Throw in caffeine for energy and nicotine because well you like all smokers are addicted to it.( almost all, and people that only smoke when they drink don't count, unless they are a total drunk.)lol.

Then you end up on so many meds that when you feel like shit you are not even sure which drug you maybe having issues with.( tolerance builds up, forgot to take this or that, ect....)

Then you end up totally dependent on so many drugs it is ridiculous.

If I were on as many drugs as my doctor has me on and would be willing to use more, it would hit double digits( nicotine included)( he wants me to stop that, but take other meds also)

So, then it is time to take an inventory of your meds. Ok, I will die if I stop this or get really sick( not withdrawals, I mean diabetes meds in your case) Then meds like pain killers that make medical conditions bearable. Then there are the ones that seem to be helpful such as hugh vitamin D mega doses,high blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds( not on them but my doctor wanted me to be, but this was an anomaly in my eating habits which I am trying to correct).

Anyways you have this whole long list of drugs.

Which ones can you cut out, without any major issues?

I ask this because many times people are over medicated on stuff they don't really need.

You, like I am trying to do; is to cut out those that aren't necessary. Nicotine is one of them, but quitting is hard. Also it helps with times I can't physically eat.

Then there are pain meds which make me functional and another drug that could kill me if I quit taking it. Then there are other more helpful drugs like meds for high blood pressure.

Then you start to look at all you are on or what you take and the doctors think you could use but are not necessary.

I have trimmed down and refused meds I don't need.

Then there are meds that make my life more bearable. Then that is where the issue of cutting down is a problem.

Can you cut out caffeine and nicotine? Can you live without morphine( and still function)?

What about the psychological type meds. Are they to treat a real mental disorder; if so, then they are necessary.

Take an inventory of all you take and find the ones that are non-negotiable, such as diabetes meds, any truly needed psych meds, ect....

Then look at meds that are helpful and don't have any risk.

Then see what you can realistically cut out.

That list becomes small. I have two bad medical conditions that make certain drugs basically needed to function normally. Then there are the drugs I have refused or cut out.

I am left with cigarettes. , that is really an issue. Because it helps at times, when my pancreatitus keeps me from eating and makes it bearable.

So then you look and then you realize, shit I am a mess but what can I do.

I don't know all the drugs you take, but if they are needed and the ones that make life bearable are included what is left?

Only you can really know. You need to take a total inventory and see if there are medications or drugs you can live just fine, without.

I have already trimmed my list down, and Well I only really started smoking in my later 40's and have been smoking moderately for a few years and it actually helps at times.

So I am down to an upper single digit number of meds and substances, and cutting out vitaminD which I only take occasionally is all I am left with cutting out at this point.( ok, I could live without cigarettes but quitting sucks).

So, my advice is to take a real hard honest look at all your meds( from your past descriptions it is a lot and it seems many are needed).

You maybe stuck, on being on all sorts of meds. If you have mental health issues and from the sound of it, those that are needed, ( not an insult, mental disorders need to be treated) along with diabetes meds and any other medically needed drugs).

So it seems like cigarettes and coffee are possible all that are left.

Unless you you are also taking any rather useless drugs that you can live without.

You might just be stuck taking a ton of meds to live as good of a life as possible, medically.

In your case, quitting smoking maybe one of the few things you can cut out. Good luck with that one,lol Sorry, I smoke also and for some reason I only smoke in one room of my house. I literally can be out all day with no cigarettes and not even think about them. I use a machine and make my own and only smoke in the main place I spend my time awake indoors. If I am upstairs for half a day I might not smoke until I go to that one living room. It is psychological, but If I were to leave my house for a week I would probably be able to quit easily.

So basically, you need to take a realistic inventory of all your meds and any substances and see what you can live without. It maybe several or it maybe just the cigarettes.

Coffee is not really that bad as long as you don't drink a lot of it and find yourself with no available caffeine; then OUCH big time.

But if there are drugs that are useless and you can cut them out, then I would do so.

If there are none, then I guess you are kinda stuck.

As a side note; the taking of pills almost becomes like this weird ritual for old people. I hate that image. But if you can cut out some unnecessary substances or drugs, then I would do so. If not, then fire up a cancer stick and learn to accept that this is what you are stuck with.

Seriously, good luck and don't discontinue any necessary medications.

Big kudos for writing all that out!

Just wanted to add for sake of balance (not to pick a fight), best to let trained experienced doctors manage your meds, that's not to say that you shouldn't challenge them to help you reduce things or avoid things if they're not needed or change the type of med for a condition if the side effects are too much for you - it's a big balancing game and they do understand that and have the training to help.

The best we can do is follow the latest medical research that's there rather than adopt a take less philosophy.

Also ask for second opinions if you're not getting anywhere with a particular doctor.

Also just believe in yourself. And try to understand the "why" beyond depression, anxiety, ect - what about specific situations? And also, ask yourself why do you want to be sober? How do you envision your ideal living situation?

For me the boredom is the reason!

Our brains are prediction driven.
When your environment has became too predictable for too long the neural activity in your brain begins to drop. That low stimulation can make you feel like you need to find something else to do so you do. I think a lot of us have felt the same way that you’re describing. [snip] .We’re constantly seeking stimulation.

I think this is very on point with the underlying issue for me. It's why I constant crave stimulation from hobbies, drugs, even work when it's exciting and challenging is fun.

I do think my boredom threshold is very low though, that makes scratching this itch particularly hard

Start challenging yourself to not become occupied with anything.

this is sooooo hard to do, I have the attention span and hyperactivity of a 4 year old after 3 red bulls.

I would love to learn how to mediate, this vid was draw dropping for me when I watched it, even worked on me

It’s one of the biggest reasons that these platforms and all the social media can become a problem too. They are engineered for rapid novelty with variable reward hits and endless scrolling. Eventually your experience begins to change. Boredom becomes sharper and harder to tolerate. Quiet moments without any stimulation begin to become uncomfortable. Your brain becomes trained to expect intensity. It’s not always a drug addiction. But it’s a behavioral loop that’s became strong and disruptive. But because of neuroplasticity it can be reversed.

interesting, so in other words make your normal more boring then you are more easily entertained by lower stimulating activities.

My idea of hell is being bored, I just don't know how I would manage to do it!

 

[streaM Freak]

What i'd say about boredom, is that novelty doesn't only come from initiating new things, it can come from noticing things that have always been there.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

you've pretty much described my problem.

There's only really 2 things that have ever helped me
1. Exercise - but I need to be in the zone where I'm enjoying it and hungry to do more before this is viable, right now I'm very unfit and not motivated
2. Obsessive hobbies - If there's something that I'm really into I will obsess about it and it acts as a great distraction. The problem is I'm over 50 and there's a long long list of hobbies that I've done, typically at most they provide relief for 6-18 months, but I ran out of new things to try a long time ago

just out of interest do you have ADHD? I think I may do but it's undiagnosed, I'm waiting for an eval, wondering if this is 1 of the symptoms....

Obsessive hobbies for sure can help.
Unfortunately, I cannot exercise at all due to severe chronic pain/mobility issues.
I tend to walk to the end of my street and back (like a 3 min walk), but that's about all i can manage. There's a bus stop that's like a 5-6 min walk from my house, but I literally cannot make it there. Or, rather, if can "power through" the pain, but then I'm kinda stuck there 'cause I can't make the journey back. Like, I've had to call my dad to pick me up from there before 'cause I couldn't walk the 5 mins back.

I love reading, which helps and if I'm reading something good, hours can pass by without me really noticing. Reading was my favorite thing to re-discover when I got sober from alcohol. Kinda hard to read when you're drinking two pints of vodka and 3-4 bottles of wine every day lol. I tried sometimes, but my eyes would refuse to focus on the words, and then I'd often totally forget what I'd read. Reading does help me take a little less (opioids and tranquilizers) 'cause while they aren't as bad as alcohol, they can also make it hard to focus my eyes on the words, plus reading on any type of sedative makes me very sleepy.

I definitely don't have the H, but may well have ADD. I find it incredibly hard to focus on anything. Or make decisions. And usually have multiple things going at all times. Like, I'll be watching a movie, playing on my Switch and online (like on here) at the same time.

I have moderate agoraphobia* which also makes getting into hobbies difficult.

*the diagnosis is just "Agoraphobia", I made the "moderate" up because I think it fits. It has a significant impact on daily life, so "mild" doesn't fit, but I'm not COMPLETELY unable to leave my house. I'm not too bad walking up my street and back (some days) and I TRY to go to medical appointments (it's about 50/50 if I'll cancel day-of) but do need either my dad to drive me or get a taxi and I need someone (usually my mum or brother) with me the whole time.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

can always get into literature and become snobbish about goehte and schelling or something like that

Love reading, but generally much prefer trashy horror over classics (generally, not always).
I'm weird with classics. Like, I love William S Burroughs, but Charles Dickens is literally the worst author I have ever read. I've tried to read three of his books and just cannot make it through. I find everything about his work, from the prose, to the pacing, to the characters SO boring and off-putting. I do love the concept of Mrs Havisham (sp?) still in her wedding dress with the food all out and rotting and the clocks stopped etc interesting, but that's about it.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Caffeine and nicotine are drugs. Nicotine is one of the most psychologically addictive drugs.

Caffeine can be; as I found out over 2 decades ago, physically addictive in high doses over time.

I ran out of coffee and had no way to get any for almost 24 hours and being use too having 3 or 4 pots of coffee a day; as I found out, can cause a massive( worse than a typical migraine headache, type of headache where I was truly unable to function normally from the awful pain which was resolved when I got more coffee. I actually had to do a coffee taper.lol

I have only been to Starbucks once. For a bagel. Never for coffee. But judging by prices and the long lines, I would say that they are almost like drug dealers,lol. Seriously look at cost and the wait people will go through, to keep getting their specialty coffees or whatever.

So you take a bunch of needed meds and others that just seem to help.

This( I am on a number of meds and my doctor would have me on more if I let him). This becomes a part of your life. When you take them away, some might cause catastrophic and potentially fatal problems( your diabetes meds, depending on how severe and whether you are insulin dependent or not) but serious problems any which way. The truly needed meds get added onto meds that help your medical problems or keep you from going on a mentally ill psychotic episode.

Then add in other med which may not be needed to live but make you able to function. Pain meds for some, like me and you, able to function. This and other meds are make medical problems more bearable.

Then the doctors give you other meds that help with other symptoms and sometimes these are to reduce the problems with other meds.

So then your body becomes physically dependent on drugs like pain killers, benzos, anti depressants, ect...

Then throw in other meds to that the doctor prescribes for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, ect...

These become routine. Throw in caffeine for energy and nicotine because well you like all smokers are addicted to it.( almost all, and people that only smoke when they drink don't count, unless they are a total drunk.)lol.

Then you end up on so many meds that when you feel like shit you are not even sure which drug you maybe having issues with.( tolerance builds up, forgot to take this or that, ect....)

Then you end up totally dependent on so many drugs it is ridiculous.

If I were on as many drugs as my doctor has me on and would be willing to use more, it would hit double digits( nicotine included)( he wants me to stop that, but take other meds also)

So, then it is time to take an inventory of your meds. Ok, I will die if I stop this or get really sick( not withdrawals, I mean diabetes meds in your case) Then meds like pain killers that make medical conditions bearable. Then there are the ones that seem to be helpful such as hugh vitamin D mega doses,high blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds( not on them but my doctor wanted me to be, but this was an anomaly in my eating habits which I am trying to correct).

Anyways you have this whole long list of drugs.

Which ones can you cut out, without any major issues?

I ask this because many times people are over medicated on stuff they don't really need.

You, like I am trying to do; is to cut out those that aren't necessary. Nicotine is one of them, but quitting is hard. Also it helps with times I can't physically eat.

Then there are pain meds which make me functional and another drug that could kill me if I quit taking it. Then there are other more helpful drugs like meds for high blood pressure.

Then you start to look at all you are on or what you take and the doctors think you could use but are not necessary.

I have trimmed down and refused meds I don't need.

Then there are meds that make my life more bearable. Then that is where the issue of cutting down is a problem.

Can you cut out caffeine and nicotine? Can you live without morphine( and still function)?

What about the psychological type meds. Are they to treat a real mental disorder; if so, then they are necessary.

Take an inventory of all you take and find the ones that are non-negotiable, such as diabetes meds, any truly needed psych meds, ect....

Then look at meds that are helpful and don't have any risk.

Then see what you can realistically cut out.

That list becomes small. I have two bad medical conditions that make certain drugs basically needed to function normally. Then there are the drugs I have refused or cut out.

I am left with cigarettes. , that is really an issue. Because it helps at times, when my pancreatitus keeps me from eating and makes it bearable.

So then you look and then you realize, shit I am a mess but what can I do.

I don't know all the drugs you take, but if they are needed and the ones that make life bearable are included what is left?

Only you can really know. You need to take a total inventory and see if there are medications or drugs you can live just fine, without.

I have already trimmed my list down, and Well I only really started smoking in my later 40's and have been smoking moderately for a few years and it actually helps at times.

So I am down to an upper single digit number of meds and substances, and cutting out vitaminD which I only take occasionally is all I am left with cutting out at this point.( ok, I could live without cigarettes but quitting sucks).

So, my advice is to take a real hard honest look at all your meds( from your past descriptions it is a lot and it seems many are needed).

You maybe stuck, on being on all sorts of meds. If you have mental health issues and from the sound of it, those that are needed, ( not an insult, mental disorders need to be treated) along with diabetes meds and any other medically needed drugs).

So it seems like cigarettes and coffee are possible all that are left.

Unless you you are also taking any rather useless drugs that you can live without.

You might just be stuck taking a ton of meds to live as good of a life as possible, medically.

In your case, quitting smoking maybe one of the few things you can cut out. Good luck with that one,lol Sorry, I smoke also and for some reason I only smoke in one room of my house. I literally can be out all day with no cigarettes and not even think about them. I use a machine and make my own and only smoke in the main place I spend my time awake indoors. If I am upstairs for half a day I might not smoke until I go to that one living room. It is psychological, but If I were to leave my house for a week I would probably be able to quit easily.

So basically, you need to take a realistic inventory of all your meds and any substances and see what you can live without. It maybe several or it maybe just the cigarettes.

Coffee is not really that bad as long as you don't drink a lot of it and find yourself with no available caffeine; then OUCH big time.

But if there are drugs that are useless and you can cut them out, then I would do so.

If there are none, then I guess you are kinda stuck.

As a side note; the taking of pills almost becomes like this weird ritual for old people. I hate that image. But if you can cut out some unnecessary substances or drugs, then I would do so. If not, then fire up a cancer stick and learn to accept that this is what you are stuck with.

Seriously, good luck and don't discontinue any necessary medications.

Oh, yeah, I know they (Caffeine and Nicotine) are drugs, I just kinda implied, I guess, that they were "less" drugs because unlike things like alcohol, cocaine, meth, opioids, benzos, etc, they don't affect your behavior or life in the same way.
And, like, nobody ever sucked dick for Caffeine.
I didn't realize how much Caffeine I have until recently. I probably average around 4 coffee's a day, so I was counting my intake as ~400mg, but the mugs I use are usually 16oz, not z, so that's closer to 800mg and then I drink about 4 liters of Coke Zero a day and that has about 100mg per liter.
I definitely don't get "cravings" or any kinda withdrawal where it's severe or unbearable without it, but I do get headaches and lethargy.

Meh, you're not missing much, Starbucks is overrated, IMO. I do really like the white chocolate mocha, but have one...probably not even once a month just because the prices are insane and also their drinks aren't really coffee so much as very milky, syrupy drinks that happen to have coffee in them. I DID at one point have a venti white chocolate mocha every day and then found out they have like 700 empty calories :/

I'm 100% insulin dependent (my pancreas function is now down to "undetectable", which I think means either less than 2%, or less than 1%) so, yeah, I'd die pretty quickly without insulin. You can get Diabetic Ketoacidosis in as little as 48 hours, which, in turn, can kill you in as little as 48 hours.
Most of my meds, I *need*. Like, without the Thorazine or Seroquel I'd be literally psychotic; without the Zoloft I'd kill myself, obviously seizure meds are necessary, pain has me basically bedridden without Morphine and Gabapentin etc

Oh, I didn't know that you ALSO have Pancreatitis! Do you also need diabetes meds, then, or do you still have decent function?

This is all good advise, btw, thanks

I could definitely do without Caffeine or Nicotine, but...IDK...I don't really have the motivation to stop those.
I'd love to stop Nicotine from a money perspective (even the cheapest cigarette brands here cost the equivalent of like $20USD for a pack of 20) but it helps break up the day so much. And my Nicotine consumption is ridiculous. I probably only smoke about a pack a day, but I also vape about the same equivalent, so it's like 2 packs a day (maybe more). I tend to just vape while reading or binging a show and not realize how much I've done (since vaping doesn't have the same natural "ending point" like a cigarette does).

I've cut out Trazodone because it gave me such severe, graphic nightmares that it was a WORSE experience than no sleep.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Also just believe in yourself. And try to understand the "why" beyond depression, anxiety, ect - what about specific situations? And also, ask yourself why do you want to be sober? How do you envision your ideal living situation?

For hard drugs I had to physically move locations and purge my phone contacts, basically "cold turkey" with an entire lifestyle change.

For smoking tobacco / vape, and alcohol, that was a longer, slower progression similar to a taper but I didn't pressure myself to make it structured like a taper. I just simply tried to "cut down", and I celebrated each small step.

Also, I use a sober tracking app. Its okay to be proud of yourself. Your head will become more clear. You will start to experience things that you wouldn't have experienced while being distracted by substances.

Its not a quick turnaround, which is the difficult part. I believe we all have the power to turn it around, it's just do you have the patience?

With alcohol, I had to taper down really slowly just 'cause the without is very dangerous (like partner actually died from alcohol withdrawal).
Or as an inpatient. When I finally got sober, I did it that was as it takes like a week instead of a couple months. They still struggled, though. Generally, they give you Chlordiazapoxide (Librium), either 25mg or 50mg. Like, they regularly score the level of your withdrawal and give you the meds when you need them, but they were giving me the 50mg very frequently and I was still severely unwell, so they had to add 2.5mg Lorazepam (Ativan) 4 times a day and 1.5mg Haloperidol (Haldol) 3 x a day, but it finally worked

Last time I cut down on cigarettes, I tapered, too. I was having 20-25 a day, so I started with 20 on day one and then reduced it by 2 per day every 3 days.

My biggest issue is if I DO want to be sober. If I had a guaranteed supply of as much as I needed of everything to never be in withdrawal I definitely would not wanna get sober. I sort-of wanna get sober just because withdrawal is so horrible, plus I HATE being physically dependent on something and always needing to have it. Makes me feel trapped.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Big kudos for writing all that out!

Just wanted to add for sake of balance (not to pick a fight), best to let trained experienced doctors manage your meds, that's not to say that you shouldn't challenge them to help you reduce things or avoid things if they're not needed or change the type of med for a condition if the side effects are too much for you - it's a big balancing game and they do understand that and have the training to help.

The best we can do is follow the latest medical research that's there rather than adopt a take less philosophy.

Also ask for second opinions if you're not getting anywhere with a particular doctor.


For me the boredom is the reason!


I think this is very on point with the underlying issue for me. It's why I constant crave stimulation from hobbies, drugs, even work when it's exciting and challenging is fun.

I do think my boredom threshold is very low though, that makes scratching this itch particularly hard



this is sooooo hard to do, I have the attention span and hyperactivity of a 4 year old after 3 red bulls.

I would love to learn how to mediate, this vid was draw dropping for me when I watched it, even worked on me




interesting, so in other words make your normal more boring then you are more easily entertained by lower stimulating activities.

My idea of hell is being bored, I just don't know how I would manage to do it!

Yes, boredom is a huge thing! I almost feel panicky about being bored, especially long-term. I hate it so much,

 

[streaM Freak]

My biggest issue is if I DO want to be sober. If I had a guaranteed supply of as much as I needed of everything to never be in withdrawal I definitely would not wanna get sober. I sort-of wanna get sober just because withdrawal is so horrible, plus I HATE being physically dependent on something and always needing to have it. Makes me feel trapped.

Yeah, I think that's the hardest place to start.

I wonder, would the future you want be better if you were using less? Because if you aren't at a point where the future you want doesn't require a change, then that's a really difficult spot to be in from a strategic standpoint alone.

Then the emotional aspects, that's a whole nother ball game that I don't have as great of a strategy for

 

[marcoman]

Is it possible? How do you do it?

I'm trying to cut back a bit but find that, even if I'm not in any withdrawal yet, I just feel this weird empty-bored-lost feeling where I don't know what to do or...IDK, almost like a habit?

But I've noticed I always need to constantly trying to make myself feel better (RE: depression, anxiety, boredom, loneliness) with SOME sort of chemical or pharmaceutical.
Not even necessarily drugs. Even if I'm out somewhere - like I had a diabetes appointment this morning - I had to be drinking caffeinated drinks and smoking cigarettes the whole time (except when in the actual appointment, ofc...though I did take a coffee in).

I am the same. I'm 68 and as always been fkd up my entire life. It started after my brother died when we were teenagers and I started self medicating with my booze, sedatives and some acid/lsd. There was one point on my life where I only did valiums and that was enough to curb my "appetite." Then I got some street opioids and for years, I really enjoyed the mix of oxy, valium and beer or vodka. And yes, I do believe there are many of us in the same boat. What's the cause? It can vary and these shrinks who call themselves doctors will have you see them for the rest of your life and never get to the bottom of shit. Even if they did, would it change my drug cravings? I highly doubt it. One, the drugs of my choice reduces my pain so I can still function at my age. And two, I do enjoy the relaxation and euphoria they give me. Without the meds, I'm bored. And alcohol alone just doesn't do it for me. The best thing to do is stay physical, stay active and have hobbies to keep your head occupied. Easier said than done for me, a 68 yr old codger who played a lifetime of organized hockey since 5 yrs old, up till 66. I'd be 100 per cent fine staying on oxy and a benzo ( valium or k-pins only) as I hate Xanax and the other benzos. But with the FDA shutting things down it's just a matter of time before docs will completely stop scripting certain drugs, pharmacies will stop filling orders and Lily, Pfiezer, Roache, Moderna, etc will stop making certain drugs and producing all this new shit that does nothing but give a person shitty side effects. I wish I had a legit street connection who could get me what I take. And at a affordable price. Good fkn luck on that, right?

 

[Jnowhere]

Oh, yeah, I know they (Caffeine and Nicotine) are drugs, I just kinda implied, I guess, that they were "less" drugs because unlike things like alcohol, cocaine, meth, opioids, benzos, etc, they don't affect your behavior or life in the same way.
And, like, nobody ever sucked dick for Caffeine.
I didn't realize how much Caffeine I have until recently. I probably average around 4 coffee's a day, so I was counting my intake as ~400mg, but the mugs I use are usually 16oz, not z, so that's closer to 800mg and then I drink about 4 liters of Coke Zero a day and that has about 100mg per liter.
I definitely don't get "cravings" or any kinda withdrawal where it's severe or unbearable without it, but I do get headaches and lethargy.

Meh, you're not missing much, Starbucks is overrated, IMO. I do really like the white chocolate mocha, but have one...probably not even once a month just because the prices are insane and also their drinks aren't really coffee so much as very milky, syrupy drinks that happen to have coffee in them. I DID at one point have a venti white chocolate mocha every day and then found out they have like 700 empty calories :/

I'm 100% insulin dependent (my pancreas function is now down to "undetectable", which I think means either less than 2%, or less than 1%) so, yeah, I'd die pretty quickly without insulin. You can get Diabetic Ketoacidosis in as little as 48 hours, which, in turn, can kill you in as little as 48 hours.
Most of my meds, I *need*. Like, without the Thorazine or Seroquel I'd be literally psychotic; without the Zoloft I'd kill myself, obviously seizure meds are necessary, pain has me basically bedridden without Morphine and Gabapentin etc

Oh, I didn't know that you ALSO have Pancreatitis! Do you also need diabetes meds, then, or do you still have decent function?

This is all good advise, btw, thanks

I could definitely do without Caffeine or Nicotine, but...IDK...I don't really have the motivation to stop those.
I'd love to stop Nicotine from a money perspective (even the cheapest cigarette brands here cost the equivalent of like $20USD for a pack of 20) but it helps break up the day so much. And my Nicotine consumption is ridiculous. I probably only smoke about a pack a day, but I also vape about the same equivalent, so it's like 2 packs a day (maybe more). I tend to just vape while reading or binging a show and not realize how much I've done (since vaping doesn't have the same natural "ending point" like a cigarette does).

I've cut out Trazodone because it gave me such severe, graphic nightmares that it was a WORSE experience than no sleep.

I don't have diabetes issues. It is from severe alcohol abuse in my past.

I only use trazadone in a very low dosage for occasionally to sleep. My doctor prescribed it off label at a really low dose.( is that why you were on it also, lol) I don't think they really prescribe it for depression much anymore.

I checked and 25mg and 50mg, doses are used for sleep. But I only use it occasionally.( it doesn't work very well for me taken too regularly), but it really does work if I use it once or maybe twice a week.

It is weird, it doesn't make me drowsy really, but if I take it, and wait 30-45 minutes and lie down, I am out. I do worry that that it might cause me to fall into too deep of a state of sleep, though.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Cut out screen time and take up reading. Only thing that seems to work for me. If I'm inside I will take crap all day purely out of boredom. I'm actually doing it right now. I told myself I'd save the xanax, pot and tobacco for a trip I'm taking next week. But once I take that first xanax to chill I'll raid everything else including the ice cream.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I don't have diabetes issues. It is from severe alcohol abuse in my past.

I only use trazadone in a very low dosage for occasionally to sleep. My doctor prescribed it off label at a really low dose.( is that why you were on it also, lol) I don't think they really prescribe it for depression much anymore.

I checked and 25mg and 50mg, doses are used for sleep. But I only use it occasionally.( it doesn't work very well for me taken too regularly), but it really does work if I use it once or maybe twice a week.

It is weird, it doesn't make me drowsy really, but if I take it, and wait 30-45 minutes and lie down, I am out. I do worry that that it might cause me to fall into too deep of a state of sleep, though.

Ahh, you will be diabetic eventually, though. They DID tell you that, right?
Only your pancreas can make insulin and since pancreatitis is incurable, over time (usually several years) your pancreas function will continue to decline, even if you never touch alcohol again. I got pancreatitis (from a double-whammy of severe alcohol abuse and bulimia as they both cause it) in 2011 but I didn't become diabetic until 2021 and didn't become 100% dependent on insulin until 2024.

Yeah, I was prescribed it for sleep, too, but they gave me 300mg pills. If 25-50mg is the usual for sleep, no wonder 300 had me fucked up!
I'm sure I read somewhere that it partially breaks down into (I forget the name) a toxic piperazine relative, too.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I am the same. I'm 68 and as always been fkd up my entire life. It started after my brother died when we were teenagers and I started self medicating with my booze, sedatives and some acid/lsd. There was one point on my life where I only did valiums and that was enough to curb my "appetite." Then I got some street opioids and for years, I really enjoyed the mix of oxy, valium and beer or vodka. And yes, I do believe there are many of us in the same boat. What's the cause? It can vary and these shrinks who call themselves doctors will have you see them for the rest of your life and never get to the bottom of shit. Even if they did, would it change my drug cravings? I highly doubt it. One, the drugs of my choice reduces my pain so I can still function at my age. And two, I do enjoy the relaxation and euphoria they give me. Without the meds, I'm bored. And alcohol alone just doesn't do it for me. The best thing to do is stay physical, stay active and have hobbies to keep your head occupied. Easier said than done for me, a 68 yr old codger who played a lifetime of organized hockey since 5 yrs old, up till 66. I'd be 100 per cent fine staying on oxy and a benzo ( valium or k-pins only) as I hate Xanax and the other benzos. But with the FDA shutting things down it's just a matter of time before docs will completely stop scripting certain drugs, pharmacies will stop filling orders and Lily, Pfiezer, Roache, Moderna, etc will stop making certain drugs and producing all this new shit that does nothing but give a person shitty side effects. I wish I had a legit street connection who could get me what I take. And at a affordable price. Good fkn luck on that, right?

I'm lucky in that I'm not from the U.S. so all meds are reasonably priced here. A prescription is the equivalent of ~$14USD. That's every prescription. Whether you're getting 8 pills or 120, brand or generic, every med etc.
Except for people who meet certain criteria they are free. There's a list of meds that are considered "Life-Saving Medication" which are always free for anyone who needs them, and if you're on one of them, ALL of your meds for anything are free. I'm on Insulin so qualify, meaning I never pay for any rx. Doesn't have to be related to the diabetes, like my anti-depressants, pain meds etc are all free, if I need antibiotics or anything they'd be free.

Unfortunately, benzo prescriptions have pretty much become extinct here. On the extremely rare occasion anyone gets one, it's either 2 or 3 week maximum they can be prescribed for. And really low doses. I remember when my grandma was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was understandably very distressed. So they prescribed her Diazepam (Valium)...wanna know how much? 2mg tablets, up to three a day.
6 fucking mg a day.