Trigger Warning Should public prayer be bannned in the UK?

[Perkins : Reborn]

Good. I would've made her disappear quicker than that.

Fewer unwanted babies is always good, whatever the method. I prefer a humane drowning.

Say no to Nazarene poison.

 

[lost weekend]

freedom of religion and speech are a big deal in the US. Almost as big as gun control. When Christians feel violated such as the Charlie Kirk incident they go to great lengths to settle the score.
However, sometimes religious people make a point of putting themselves on display, maybe to show everyone how religious they are?

The kirk in my town of around 15 thousand population are lucky if the attendance reaches into double figures on a Sunday with very few young people or families unless it's a religious festival like Easter etc.

Can't speak for other Christian churches ,it wouldn't surprise me if the Roman Church had a larger attendance, its got a bit more imagination surrounding it

Couples get married in the church and never return ,that's the only time it's full apart from funerals and most funerals now take place at the crematorium cos its cheaper than a burial

 

[alasdairm]

here is article 9 of the human rights act 1998:

Article 9

Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

2 Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

(my emphasis)

to those who oppose the right to public prayer, is it a safety issue? or do you feel that the "rights and freedoms of others" are being infringed by public prayer? if so, how?

thanks.

alasdair

 

[JackARoe]

Prayer, should be a private affair, not a public spectacle with your arses in the air.

This. I really dislike hypocrite public praying. And was reading through reading Mark 6:6 JC himself cringed at the public spectacle.

Mark 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you

I do like how total utter hypocrite were around straight through history. I have remembered this phrase since summer bible school. Go into privacy if you really believe and want to pray.

Group prayers are ok if everyone is in tune. Music is almost like a group prayer,

 

[lost weekend]

here is article 9 of the human rights act 1998:


(my emphasis)

to those who oppose the right to public prayer, is it a safety issue? or do you feel that the "rights and freedoms of others" are being infringed by public prayer? if so, how?

thanks.

alasdair

people should be free to pray anywhere they choose as individuals ,it could be a silent prayer for a loved one who passed away or after receiving bad news .
I don't think that would infringe on other people's rights and freedoms and I doubt anyone on the forum would be offended by it

If that is the case what difference does it make if its a group of people
Is it because its an organised event rather than a private /personal affair
A prayer could be for anything.
A group of people may pray or have a vigil for a missing person etc

Sorry I haven't answered your question

 

[lost weekend]

I looked up article 9 and it's strange it refers to "his"

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

"preventing public gathering for discriminated and marginalized group" can easily turn into "preventing gathering for any group that could plan resistance against abusive government" by leaving legislation vague or extending the existing legislation that was not vague enough or abusing the existing legislation by adjucative or executive branch, and most folks don't get what is happening before it is too late, because Overtons window has been moved already by persecuting "wrong kind of public gathering that is only important for out-group". This is just 101 of fascist operations.

British already have extensive bank operations and internet surveillance for regular citizens. I might count one plus one probably equals two.

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UN and regional human rights experts on Friday urged states to halt the criminalization of protesters and civil society activists, following what they called a pattern of arbitrary arrests and persecution worldwide.
In a joint declaration, experts stressed that the foundational pillars of democracy–namely freedom of assembly and association–must be protected and not treated as threats to public order and national security. They emphasized the importance of these rights to foster participation and holding power to account and prevent a deepening mistrust and the undermining of social cohesion.

UN experts urge states to stop criminalizing civil society and peaceful assembly

UN and regional human rights experts on Friday urged states to halt the criminalization of protesters and civil society activists, following what they called a pattern of arbitrary arrests and persecu...

www.jurist.org

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States parties should also not rely on “some vague notion of public order” to justify broad restrictions on the right of peaceful assembly. “Public order” and “law and order” are not synonymous, the Committee tells us, and the prohibition of “public disorder” in domestic law should not be used to impose undue restrictions on peaceful assemblies. Restrictions on peaceful assemblies should only exceptionally be imposed for “the protection of morals,” and this is not lawful where it merely reflects opposition to expressions of sexual orientation.

The Right of Peaceful Assembly: UN Committee Weighs in on the ‘Age of Protest’

The second in our series published on the UN draft document, with opportunity for public comments.

www.justsecurity.org

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

In Finland public discourse about banning niqab burkha whatever religious face cover in whatever environment has been launched, and while the suggestions right now are mostly reasonable, I have no doubts that the real goal for people behind the curtains, is criminalizing any and all face cover or disguise in public, for facist ends, you know, "national security" (=to fuck over any resistance).

Fascists just start by suggesting something modest which is not relevant in most peoples day-to-day life. They tell people "you have no concern if you have nothing to hide". After monitoring and control practices are ready for it, they make so that everyone who is not fascist WILL DEFINITELY HAVE A LOT TO HIDE.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

We don't get injecting rooms...

"Corrupt moron politicians denied us something so we will suggest to corrupt moron politicians that no one else gets anything either."

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

here is article 9 of the human rights act 1998:


(my emphasis)

to those who oppose the right to public prayer, is it a safety issue? or do you feel that the "rights and freedoms of others" are being infringed by public prayer? if so, how?

thanks.

alasdair

Freedom of religion for those that want it. Freedom from religion for those who don't.

If I was to walk down the road to a majority Muslim area and attempt to perform the Rites of Pan, do you think I'd be met with universal tolerance?

 

[alasdairm]

Sorry I haven't answered your question

you did, indirectly

Freedom of religion for those that want it. Freedom from religion for those who don't.

which uk law guarantees a right to freedom from religion?

you know that, if you see somebody praying in public and it annoys you, you have other recourse, right? e.g. you can look away.

If I was to walk down the road to a majority Muslim area and attempt to perform the Rites of Pan, do you think I'd be met with universal tolerance?

i'll hold off answering your question until you've had a chance to answer my questions.

alasdair

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

We're talking about mass public prayer specifically. Besides, I've never witnessed somebody praying in public alone, save for one or two Orthodox Jews talking to the sky.

But hypothetically, one person praying wouldn't bother me, but when it's an organised act taking up public space, I'm afraid that is a problem for me.

Do we have to enshrine freedom from religion in laws? It's common courtesy not to go sticking your religion in the faces of people who'd rather you didn't. I don't go picketing local churches and mosques, despite having misgivings about their doctrines, so if you want to pray amongst others, wait for a Friday or a Sunday and do it indoors.

 

[alasdairm]

It's common courtesy not to go sticking your religion in the faces of people who'd rather you didn't.

they're just praying in public. they're not sticking anything in your face.

in short, they're not doing anything at or to you. it's not about you at all.

as i mentioned earlier, you have more control here - just look, or walk away...

alasdair

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

they're just praying in public. they're not sticking anything in your face.

in short, they're not doing anything at or to you. it's not about you at all.

as i mentioned earlier, you have more control here - just look, or walk away...

alasdair

Yeah. Just praying en masse in public. Perfectly normal, isn't it?

It's an invasion of public space by a group of people pursuing a religious agenda. I find it distasteful and a nuisance. What if I want to get somewhere that's blocked off by the praying folk? What if I don't like people chanting / wailing/ proselytising?

What if I dislike Abrahamic religion in general?

You haven't addressed the point you said you'd address. What if I were in majority Muslim country and I performed a pagan ritual with some groovy friends?

Would you condone any reprisals on the part of the Muslims? Hell, make it the Bible Belt. Same old shit.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

nuisance?

nuisance?

nuisance?

nuisance?

nuisance?

probably nuisance too?



almost forgot this event that bureaucrats or police was never informed about because why the fuck should they?

everyone taking up city space and making different kind of noises... it is just your basic society.

 

[alasdairm]

You haven't addressed the point you said you'd address. What if I were in majority Muslim country and I performed a pagan ritual with some groovy friends?

well, now you've moved the goalposts.

in your first iteration, you were in the uk in "a majority Muslim area". now, for some reason, you're in a "majority Muslim country"?

they're two quite different scenarios.

in the case of the former, i believe you should be as free to perform your rites of pan as the group of muslims praying in a group are to pray publicly. in the case of the latter, it would depend on the local law.

i think you may find some relief from your distaste if you recognize that nobody is doing anything to you or at you when praying in public. it's not about you.

if you disagree, i am happy to agree to disagree,

alasdair

 

[lost weekend]

I'm in no way religious, common sense tells me that it's improbable that there is in any way a heavenly devine creater.
That's all I'll say on that

But I do frequently mutter the words "please god ,please make things work out"
It could be muttered for something trivial like a stressfull situation at work or something more serious like a sick family member

I believe it is a natural human reaction for some people and something that is pre wired in our brain on a primitive base level regardless of any logical beliefs a certain person may have .

I know if my son or wife was seriously ill I would pray for them and is probably the reason as you get older you may turn to religion as lots of elderly people do

Call it the last refuge of a scoundrel

 

[streaM Freak]

I'm in no way religious, common sense tells me that it's improbable that there is in any way a heavenly devine creater.
That's all I'll say on that

I don't believe there is some dude in the sky watching me make mistakes and then changing my fate.

Having many religions is still having division among humans. I am pretty certain (call it my belief) that the universe operates in a way that is beyond our comprehension.

Accepting differences is a step in the direction of figuring out what this all means. We aren't going to figure out life's mysteries by silencing a chunk of our own people.

As for this thread, I don't live in that area so I have no idea what it's like, and I doubt words can do it justice.

 

[lost weekend]

I think I said in an earlier post while travelling through Abu Dhabi Airport last year there was a Christian preacher with a bible in his hand on a pedestal shouting at the top of his voice about the folly of not being a good Christian
That was obviously in a Muslim country (albeit the airport ) and absolutely no one paid the slightest attention to him
I suspect he did this regularly

 

[lost weekend]

I don't believe there is some dude in the sky watching me make mistakes and then changing my fate.

Having many religions is still having division among humans. I am pretty certain (call it my belief) that the universe operates in a way that is beyond our comprehension.

Accepting differences is a step in the direction of figuring out what this all means. We aren't going to figure out life's mysteries by silencing a chunk of our own people.

As for this thread, I don't live in that area so I have no idea what it's like, and I doubt words can do it justice.

I agree ,was just making the point of how sometimes we allow ourselves to defy logic or be irrational