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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Is there a consensus on vape devices and liquids? nicotine

red22

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
2,061
When purchasing stuff, you want to consider health*, reliability, and battery life. Have we reached a harm reduction consensus about this?

*For example, in this study, one device saturated the fluid with heavy metals, while the other didn't:

 
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Based on discussions with chat bots, the safest way to vape nicotine* is to infuse pure nicotine into an herb that favors vaping and burning, like mullein, and vape that in a dry herb vape. This avoids the vape fluid and the tobacco-specific nitrosamines. TSNAs may not be a concern for low heat vaping, but people report that tobacco has a particularly nasty taste when vaped.

Unfortunately, pure nicotine is basically an illegal drug.

*Not counting this: A nicotine vape that doesn't use heat
 
I’m curious what the health risks are with the different kinds of disposable vapes. There are some pretty high quality disposable vapes and then there are some shit cheap ones. I wouldn’t be at all surprised that the cheap ones have all kinds of god knows what.
 
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The concern about microplastics and nanoplastics (MNPs) in e-liquids is a valid scientific question, as research into plastic leaching has expanded significantly in recent years. While there is limited research specifically targeting nicotine juice bottles compared to bottled water, we can draw several conclusions based on the materials and chemistry involved.

1. Material Degradation

Most e-liquid bottles are made from PET (Polyethylene terephthalate) or LDPE (Low-density polyethylene). These plastics are generally stable, but they are not inert. Research on PET water bottles has consistently shown the presence of nanoplastics, often numbering in the hundreds of thousands per liter. It is highly probable that the mechanical friction of opening/closing the cap and the natural degradation of the polymer matrix over time release MNPs into the e-liquid.

2. Solvent Interactions

E-liquids primarily consist of Propylene Glycol (PG) and Vegetable Glycerin (VG).

• PG as a Solvent: Propylene glycol is a more aggressive solvent than water. It is frequently used in industrial applications to dissolve various compounds. There is a possibility that its solvent properties could accelerate the breakdown of the plastic inner wall compared to plain water.

• Acidity and Flavorings: Many e-liquid flavorings (especially citrus or "hot" flavors) are acidic or contain terpenes that are known to interact with certain plastics, potentially leading to increased leaching of both chemical additives (like phthalates) and physical plastic particles.

3. Environmental Factors

Several factors can increase the "shedding" of microplastics from the container into the juice:

• Heat: E-liquids are often stored in pockets, cars, or near devices that get warm. Heat increases the kinetic energy of the molecules, accelerating the degradation of the plastic.

• UV Exposure: If the bottles are clear and exposed to sunlight, UV radiation breaks down the polymer chains (photo-degradation), making the plastic more brittle and prone to releasing particles.

• Shelf Life: The longer a liquid sits in a plastic bottle, the more time it has to interact with the container.

4. Comparison to Glass

Glass is chemically inert and does not shed microplastics. This is why high-end or "premium" e-liquids were historically packaged in glass dripper bottles. However, plastic remains the industry standard due to cost, durability, and the ease of "squeeze" filling.

Summary of Risk

While we don't yet have a definitive "parts per million" count for e-liquids specifically, the current understanding of polymer science suggests that some level of micro- and nanoplastic transfer is almost certain when using plastic containers. The health implications of inhaling these particles (as opposed to ingesting them) are still being studied, but it is a growing area of concern in aerosol science.

Would you like me to look for any specific recent peer-reviewed studies on the degradation of LDPE or PET in the presence of propylene glycol?
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Written by Gemini


Simple alternative to commercial e-liquids: just make your own tobacco extract (ie., tea, followed by dehydration) and mix it with vape liquid. Or go for a more refined extract. Vape liquids (propylene glycol, glycerin, or MCT oil) also come in plastic containers, but they come in HDPE (the type of plastic that has the frosted appearance), which is much more stable than PET. As stated above, some e-liquids come in LDPE, which is similar to HDPE, so commercial e-liquids in LDPE may be a safe option.

Oh, and I've determined that dry vaping tobacco is a poor endeavor. Not sure why, but dry vaping tobacco is a struggle and requires high heat, while nicotine juice can easily be inhaled even at a relatively low temperature.
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Actually, it's not as bad as I thought. Anyone who smokes cigarettes should consider getting a dry herb vape. The only issue is that you only get vapor out of the tobacco for a few hits. It's great to be able to get a hit of tobacco without the irritation and bad taste of smoke. Inhaling feels benign, unlike nicotine juice—but I suspect that propylene glycol and artificial flavorings are what make juice harsh, so I'm going to try grinding up tobacco and mixing it into glycerin and heating it in an air fryer and then mixing that product into some tobacco or mullein and vaping that. If the heater in your vape is underneath the herb chamber, you'll have to tilt the vape downward if you put liquid in it.

I read that vaping tobacco brings out its bad taste, ie., the lower level of heat preserves the "flavor" of the tobacco. That was definitely true for the first batch of tobacco I vaped, but then I bought leaves that were advertised as having a "heavenly fresh, unmistakable aroma", and indeed it's not nasty to vape this tobacco.

Vaping tobacco: 12 things you should know about vaping tobacco
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!!!PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUCEMENT MUST READ!!!
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Vapes are gay unless your using them to consume meth or bath salts!
I'm going to have to shave my beard off and leave a Freddie Mercury style moustache, get my eyebrows waxed maybe a mullet and start wearing a tank top .

unless my boyfriend sorry my wife 🙈let's me smoke in the house lol
 
Oh, and I've determined that dry vaping tobacco is a poor endeavor. Not sure why, but dry vaping tobacco is a struggle and requires high heat, while nicotine juice can easily be inhaled even at a relatively low temperature.

Actually, it's not as bad as I thought. Anyone who smokes cigarettes should consider getting a dry herb vape. The only issue is that you only get vapor out of the tobacco for a few hits. It's great to be able to get a hit of tobacco without the irritation and bad taste of smoke. Inhaling feels benign, unlike nicotine juice—but I suspect that propylene glycol and artificial flavorings are what make juice harsh, so I'm going to try grinding up tobacco and mixing it into glycerin and heating it in an air fryer and then mixing that product into some tobacco or mullein and vaping that. If the heater in your vape is underneath the herb chamber, you'll have to tilt the vape downward if you put liquid in it.

I read that vaping tobacco brings out its bad taste, ie., the lower level of heat preserves the "flavor" of the tobacco. That was definitely true for the first batch of tobacco I vaped, but then I bought leaves that were advertised as having a "heavenly fresh, unmistakable aroma", and indeed it's not nasty to vape this tobacco.

Vaping tobacco: 12 things you should know about vaping tobacco
 
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Dry vaping feels gentler than liquid vaping. I don't think propylene glycol and glycerin are good carriers. Researchers should explore alternatives, like terpenes (not necessarily cannabis terpenes). CBD may be able to be used as a carrier: imagine a little rock of CBD that's infused with nicotine.
 
Almost all of them use food flavouring agents. Many of those agents were never intended to be thermally stable.

That is one reason why menthol was the most common flavouring in cigarettes. Menthol and menthone ARE thermally stable. Carvone is added to provide a mint flavour and again, it is thermally stable.

But strawberry bubblegum poptart flavoured vapes contain esters which are not thermally stable. The law does not require the actives to be named - but if people knew, there would be a huge outcry and possibly (in the US) user seeking compensation for assuming that all vape fluids were safe.

Full disclosure, the last thing my old boss asked me to do was to find out where nicotine is produced (the chemical has multiple applications). It only cost $50/Kg back then so you know what he did? He flew to China and signed deals with all of the manufacturers that meant he had to buy at least 10000Kg/annum but in turn, the contact fixed the price he paid. The outcome? It doesn't matter whose vape fluid you buy, chances are whomever makes the vape juice bought the nicotine from that boss.
 
This confirms my own experience. I see a lot of potential: soaking datura leaf grounds in alcohol to remove the alkaloids, and then soaking them in a nicotine solution, and then dehydrating them.

"The smoke was extraordinarily smooth and pleasant and did not cause me to cough -- I suppose this is to be expected, both because datura is related to tobacco and because of its smoke's history of being used against respiratory problems." 2021-09-18. h‍ttps://www.reddit.com/r/Datura/comments/pqg6im/trip_report_from_smoking_leaves/
 
Good point well made.

In my teens when squidgy black was the 'premium product' I worked out that my hob on it's lowest settiing was just enough to vaporize THC. So I would roll a little ball of the stuff, pop it on the hob and as I wiped it flat with a kitchen knife, all that THC was driven off. No visible smoke. In fact I learned to stop just before the smoke made it's way up the translucent Bic biro tube I used (classy, that's the word you are looking for :-) and it worked.

Isn't the thingies in the weed-of-the-21st century that are toxic called benzaanthrecenses and benzapyrenes?

Both are planer aromatics so one has to wonder if the toxic modality is intercalation?
 
Both are planer aromatics so one has to wonder if the toxic modality is intercalation?
They tend to get metabolized into an epoxide which does the damage. Intercalation is what targets the molecules to DNA, and then the epoxide opens attacking a double bond.
 
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