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  • Trip Reports Moderator: M!$ter-ED

dl-methamphetamine - What's all the fuss?


Forgot to mention this. It's inactive until you boil it in water for an hour.
That’s exactly what is going to happen, the market just finds ways to adapt.

In this case, pro drugs and easily decomposable drugs like the above will be able to avoid detection by general detection techniques.

Though, if you ever watch the Australian border patrol show, there’s a few things I noticed.

1. Ion scanner gives false positives often
2. Drug dogs give false positives often
3. Druggie types rarely smuggle traffickable quantities.
4. Inconspicuous family types get caught up as mules and jailed for years.

The only clear example of positive drug testing is the chemical reaction test, and these drugs by pass it.
 
@Leprechaun - It's going to be a tough one. Hundreds if not thousands of existing 'controlled chemicals' have a primary or secondary amine so the list would grow hugely and/or someone tries to find a way of legally defining protecting groups.

Either way, about a year ago a few people here were pointing out that this was the next logical step.
 
@Leprechaun - It's going to be a tough one. Hundreds if not thousands of existing 'controlled chemicals' have a primary or secondary amine so the list would grow hugely and/or someone tries to find a way of legally defining protecting groups.

Either way, about a year ago a few people here were pointing out that this was the next logical step.
Legally, it’s more about intent than actual chemical.

For instance, if you knowingly sell sugar as cocaine, your likely to be charged as “intent to supply controlled/scheduled substance without a license”

These laws exist primarily to protect the state revenue not the individual.

The dose makes the poison, so in this case you could poison someone near fatally simply with 40g of salt. Or two tablespoons of salt!!

If the state was concerned about controlling substances purely on a toxicity level, many other things would go before controlled substances.

The problem in many (not all) western countries, is that social structures have hidden the systemic problems of destitution and poverty in the bundle of “drugs”.

How often do people chalk up a destitute homeless person with mental illness to “drugs”. But in Silicon Valley, people load up on stimulants daily, and no one would even think they are druggies… 😅

Rich people can afford rehab. Poor people can’t afford food. Rich and poor people alike want to shift the consciousness one way or another…

Politically, it’s much easier to frame economic and social problems as one solely the responsibility of the individual, but common sense and many caring voices see poverty as a problem of social support and addiction management. Switzerland is a great example of prescribed heroin. Which really is not that different from methadone to be honest (if you are physically dependent).

These days however, I feel like the western states are struggling to maintain relevance and the drug war has become less of a priority. I mean, these days, all and any drugs are so easily available, pure and cheap that it’s clear police/enforcement priorities have shifted.
 
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By MCAT you mean methacathinone, from the late 90s/ early 00s? I also tried it and found it less focused stimulation than amphetamines but also more spacey. Like a kinda doped up MDMA esque stimulation but easy to zone out. Nowhere as pleasurable. Definitely rushy but not as much and just kind of... different.

If so I'd be interested in hearing more on your experiences with it (by pm if you prefer). I've never met anyone else that's tried it.

Although it could be mellow and spacey it could also make you flip out and act violently almost without realizing...

Years later I tried khat and felt the similarities.

Sorry for the much delayed response - Yes methacathinone/MCAT. I'd read about it on erowid and actually planned to attempt to make some at the end of high school/beginning of college - picked up most of the stuff to do so before eventually coming to realization that this was a profoundly stupid idea to do given that I'd most likely have had to find a way to use the stove at my parents' house to do so.

About a year later (01 or early 02) some showed up on the scene and made the rounds. I'd agree with how you described it - kind of anxious, kind of rushy, kind of spacey, and much less satisfying than any stimulant I'd tried up to that point.

I've found that in general the few times I've tried cathinones, something about the experience has contained a hint of that feeling - the lack of being truly satisfying. 3-MMC was super euphoric, far more refined than MCAT, and much more pleasant in every way, and yet still, it just sort of made me crave a non-specific "more" (sex, drugs, chatting etc.). I still have a couple of grams of it in my box that I may or may not ever get around to using. We'll see.

Regarding MCAT - I definitely had a point of comparison between MCAT and other stimulants at the time and found that coke made me social at first and then increasingly anxious and spacey as the night went on. Meth made me feel more and more focused as time went on, often in a way that becomes difficult as hours turns into a day or two of use. MCAT made me feel really awake and alert, but on edge and at the same time not super present. I could be in a room and feel like I wanted something but didn't know what, and have a hard time staying present on any one thing or person. I did have one friend who really liked it - he was someone who seemed to have no issues being completely reckless with certain drugs (would eat a couple of MDMA pills on a Tuesday night while hanging with people who weren't on drugs, or hitting a can of keyboard dust remover while driving - he actually totalled his car doing either nitrous or duster after being up at a music festiival for a few days) - he really liked MCAT and would get this kind of intense but vacant look in his eyes when doing it. He'd kind of lose the thread while on it too - like misunderstanding what people were saying but reacting really intensely in a way that didn't make a lot of sense. There was definitely an emotional heightening to it that was almost like the parts of coke I don't like mixed with the comedown from meth ... cracked out but high at the same time.

I remember it came around for a couple of months that year and people were kind of into it at first but as it made the roudns it seemed to ultimately cause way more issues than our circle was used to dealing with, and eventually faded away. I do seem to remember that there were a few people like my friend above, who really took to the stuff. I am a therapist by training and have always been someone who thinks a lot about how other people around me act. I sometimes view people as a certain 'type' in my mind (not necessarily good or bad, just like categories of ceratin personalities and patterns of behavior). The 'type' of people who seemed to like it were dudes who I definitely partied with but who always made me a little less comfortable to use anything with either 1:1 or for a longer period of time. The kind of friends that you might trip with if there's a big group. MCAT really seemed to bring out some of the qualities in others that I didn't like, and almost certainly made me feel geeked out/self-conscious/fiendish in a way that I couldn't really relax with.

Never tried Khat, not sure if I would. Yours might be the only personal account of it I've encountered.

So yeah, that's the overall impression MCAT left me with - something that was anxious, fiendish, spacey, euphoric but with a very hard edge that bordered on uncomfortable, scattered, hypervigilant, and deeply unsatisfying.

Other than the couple of friends I mentioend above, and a few others who were also part of the same crew, you're absolutely the only other person I've ever crossed with experience using it.

I would not be shocked if we even used stuff that came from the same origin point given how niche it is and the timing of it.
 
I've tried methcathinone relatively recently and took some liking to it. I always took it alone, so no idea how group dynamics would have affected the outcomes or which character traits it would have brought out or amplified. The only other cathinone I have experience with is 4-MMC. I found quite some overlap, methcathinone in high doses had a similar unfocused high. Kind of like being hit by a hammer of euphoria, so much happiness that you can't think straight, a state of mind I thoroughly enjoy. With 4-MMC the serotonin release is of course fun, but I find it a bit lacking as the nature of the experience does not come close to MDA or BDB (I never tried MDMA). Obviously I dosed way high, but I don't think this compound would be anything productive even in lower dosages. It didn't feel particularly healthy either. I do have a slight baseline tremor and it was way worse during the experience and the day after, much more so than with other stimulants. Another friend I talked with said 3-MMC comes closest to methcathinone, but he preferred the ring substituted one. I think even to 4-MMC.
 
I can only comment on the difference between raecemic amphetamine sulfate and medical Dexedrine i.e. (S)-amphetamine sulfate.

The difference is vast. just two SKF5s was perfect for a night in the clubs and it wore of quite quickly and reliably after 8 hours. But not raecemic amphetamine which lingers. It feels like the unwanted laevoamphetamine alters the pharmokinetics of the dexamphetamine so you need to take more than twice as much to get similar (but not identical effects) and 'the shoulder' can end up being as long as the actual high. So even if consumed at 5PM, don't expect to sleep.
Might be my ADHD but the d isomer is not recreative ime. d/ l -Amphetamine is.
Simpler put they feel about as to different drug s. And the levo isomer is not inactive as in Meth. It has a very distinct recreational potential in Speed.
I keep an eye on all EUDA (formally EMCDDA) publications and what I find odd is that price isn't always a guide to purity. I note 6.4% pure speed sold for 15EUR but then 51.2% pure speed sold for 7EUR. Wholesale prices varied from 3500EUR/Kg to 11500EUR/Kg... and not in nations where adjusting for income would particularly skew date.
Speed fluctuate s around 7 euro/ gr and the quality ~ the same. Ime never was really a speed freak. But would it have been avaiable to me probably could have turned into one. ADHD was diagnosed very late in life.
One new thing is true freebase amphetamine is also traded in bulk (but isn't always pure product. Would you believe around 900EUR/Kg? I haven't fully divined why this should be, only to say that being a liquid and being the freebase, it's likely easier to smuggle. But apparently on-line vendors are offering the stuff.

What I find odd is that Dutch chemists have figured out that resolving methamphetamine and epimerizating the unwanted enantiomer was either cheaper and/or resulted in a more valuable product. But I am unaware of anyone doing this for plain amphetamine where I suggest the improvement in the product would be greater.
They make Speed in two step s now. One location the base oil. Relocate and make the finished product. Why ? It just is, they bust lab s making the base-oil and other s making the finished product. .

And it s not odd. If someone would sell a bag of dextro-Amphetamine a lot of user s would return to the dealer. Complaining what kinda shitty speed is this. No jitters, no high speed talking and walking, no sleepless night s and fountain of energy.

They are not alike the d vs the racemic product. IME.
 
Sorry for the much delayed response - Yes methacathinone/MCAT. I'd read about it on erowid and actually planned to attempt to make some at the end of high school/beginning of college - picked up most of the stuff to do so before eventually coming to realization that this was a profoundly stupid idea to do given that I'd most likely have had to find a way to use the stove at my parents' house to do so.

About a year later (01 or early 02) some showed up on the scene and made the rounds. I'd agree with how you described it - kind of anxious, kind of rushy, kind of spacey, and much less satisfying than any stimulant I'd tried up to that point.

I've found that in general the few times I've tried cathinones, something about the experience has contained a hint of that feeling - the lack of being truly satisfying. 3-MMC was super euphoric, far more refined than MCAT, and much more pleasant in every way, and yet still, it just sort of made me crave a non-specific "more" (sex, drugs, chatting etc.). I still have a couple of grams of it in my box that I may or may not ever get around to using. We'll see.

Regarding MCAT - I definitely had a point of comparison between MCAT and other stimulants at the time and found that coke made me social at first and then increasingly anxious and spacey as the night went on. Meth made me feel more and more focused as time went on, often in a way that becomes difficult as hours turns into a day or two of use. MCAT made me feel really awake and alert, but on edge and at the same time not super present. I could be in a room and feel like I wanted something but didn't know what, and have a hard time staying present on any one thing or person. I did have one friend who really liked it - he was someone who seemed to have no issues being completely reckless with certain drugs (would eat a couple of MDMA pills on a Tuesday night while hanging with people who weren't on drugs, or hitting a can of keyboard dust remover while driving - he actually totalled his car doing either nitrous or duster after being up at a music festiival for a few days) - he really liked MCAT and would get this kind of intense but vacant look in his eyes when doing it. He'd kind of lose the thread while on it too - like misunderstanding what people were saying but reacting really intensely in a way that didn't make a lot of sense. There was definitely an emotional heightening to it that was almost like the parts of coke I don't like mixed with the comedown from meth ... cracked out but high at the same time.

I remember it came around for a couple of months that year and people were kind of into it at first but as it made the roudns it seemed to ultimately cause way more issues than our circle was used to dealing with, and eventually faded away. I do seem to remember that there were a few people like my friend above, who really took to the stuff. I am a therapist by training and have always been someone who thinks a lot about how other people around me act. I sometimes view people as a certain 'type' in my mind (not necessarily good or bad, just like categories of ceratin personalities and patterns of behavior). The 'type' of people who seemed to like it were dudes who I definitely partied with but who always made me a little less comfortable to use anything with either 1:1 or for a longer period of time. The kind of friends that you might trip with if there's a big group. MCAT really seemed to bring out some of the qualities in others that I didn't like, and almost certainly made me feel geeked out/self-conscious/fiendish in a way that I couldn't really relax with.

Never tried Khat, not sure if I would. Yours might be the only personal account of it I've encountered.
T
So yeah, that's the overall impression MCAT left me with - something that was anxious, fiendish, spacey, euphoric but with a very hard edge that bordered on uncomfortable, scattered, hypervigilant, and deeply unsatisfying.

Other than the couple of friends I mentioend above, and a few others who were also part of the same crew, you're absolutely the only other person I've ever crossed with experience using it.

I would not be shocked if we even used stuff that came from the same origin point given how niche it is and the timing of it.
Hi @tryptakid ,

Thank you for your reply. You really summed it up. Very similar experiences here. Really appreciate you sharing your experiences and thoughts. Feel free to drop me a pm sometime if you ever want to discuss further.

I'd eat it, smoke it like crack. Mix it with weed and alcohol and it brought out the beast in me for sure.

Erm... Let's just say we definitely did not have the same supply.

Definitely not something I'd go back to but I was quite into it back in the day. But fuck, man... I was into everything.

BB
 
Hi @tryptakid ,

I was into everything.

BB
You ever smoke 5-meo-DiPT out of a lightbulb?

Because I may or may not have around that time.... Nothing worse than realizing that vaporized tryptamines give me asthma symptoms after a hit or two (DMT also has this effect to varying degrees, but foxymethoxy was by far the worst culprit).

We did some wild shit back then.
 
No I have not. I've never come across it.

Shame about the asthma, that's gonna taint things a bit.

I consumed anything I could get my hands on back in the day, or manufacture...
 
Sorry for the much delayed response - Yes methacathinone/MCAT. I'd read about it on erowid and actually planned to attempt to make some at the end of high school/beginning of college - picked up most of the stuff to do so before eventually coming to realization that this was a profoundly stupid idea to do given that I'd most likely have had to find a way to use the stove at my parents' house to do so.

About a year later (01 or early 02) some showed up on the scene and made the rounds. I'd agree with how you described it - kind of anxious, kind of rushy, kind of spacey, and much less satisfying than any stimulant I'd tried up to that point.

I've found that in general the few times I've tried cathinones, something about the experience has contained a hint of that feeling - the lack of being truly satisfying. 3-MMC was super euphoric, far more refined than MCAT, and much more pleasant in every way, and yet still, it just sort of made me crave a non-specific "more" (sex, drugs, chatting etc.). I still have a couple of grams of it in my box that I may or may not ever get around to using. We'll see.

Regarding MCAT - I definitely had a point of comparison between MCAT and other stimulants at the time and found that coke made me social at first and then increasingly anxious and spacey as the night went on. Meth made me feel more and more focused as time went on, often in a way that becomes difficult as hours turns into a day or two of use. MCAT made me feel really awake and alert, but on edge and at the same time not super present. I could be in a room and feel like I wanted something but didn't know what, and have a hard time staying present on any one thing or person. I did have one friend who really liked it - he was someone who seemed to have no issues being completely reckless with certain drugs (would eat a couple of MDMA pills on a Tuesday night while hanging with people who weren't on drugs, or hitting a can of keyboard dust remover while driving - he actually totalled his car doing either nitrous or duster after being up at a music festiival for a few days) - he really liked MCAT and would get this kind of intense but vacant look in his eyes when doing it. He'd kind of lose the thread while on it too - like misunderstanding what people were saying but reacting really intensely in a way that didn't make a lot of sense. There was definitely an emotional heightening to it that was almost like the parts of coke I don't like mixed with the comedown from meth ... cracked out but high at the same time.

I remember it came around for a couple of months that year and people were kind of into it at first but as it made the roudns it seemed to ultimately cause way more issues than our circle was used to dealing with, and eventually faded away. I do seem to remember that there were a few people like my friend above, who really took to the stuff. I am a therapist by training and have always been someone who thinks a lot about how other people around me act. I sometimes view people as a certain 'type' in my mind (not necessarily good or bad, just like categories of ceratin personalities and patterns of behavior). The 'type' of people who seemed to like it were dudes who I definitely partied with but who always made me a little less comfortable to use anything with either 1:1 or for a longer period of time. The kind of friends that you might trip with if there's a big group. MCAT really seemed to bring out some of the qualities in others that I didn't like, and almost certainly made me feel geeked out/self-conscious/fiendish in a way that I couldn't really relax with.

Never tried Khat, not sure if I would. Yours might be the only personal account of it I've encountered.

So yeah, that's the overall impression MCAT left me with - something that was anxious, fiendish, spacey, euphoric but with a very hard edge that bordered on uncomfortable, scattered, hypervigilant, and deeply unsatisfying.

Other than the couple of friends I mentioend above, and a few others who were also part of the same crew, you're absolutely the only other person I've ever crossed with experience using it.

I would not be shocked if we even used stuff that came from the same origin point given how niche it is and the timing of it.
Oh yeah, and it burnt like fuck on my nostrils no matter how fine I chopped it. I remember that. Probably the sharpest thing I've ever railed. Nothing else has ever topped that burn...
 
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