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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Kratom (Mitragynine;7-hydroxymitraginine) Dose convrsion[s


How long were you at 1g of daily usage?? I worked myself up to around 300mg almost everyday. I've heard horror stories people that have been taking large amounts of 7oh (around 500mg) daily and when they try to quit, no amount of Subs would help them. Having that in mind, I was pretty scared.

I was already on Buprenorphine MAT, so I had tons of 2mg pills. I took my last dose of 7oh and as usual, in withdrawals within hours :LOL:. Of course it was in the middle of the night. I put half of a 2mg pill under my tongue and tried to sleep. 1mg did seem to help some, but I ended up taking a full 2mg pill under my tongue and that did the trick for me. The next few nights I kept taking 2mg buprenorphine and the withdrawals were completely done by then.

I know that Kratom/7oh is a partial agonist like buprenorphine. I'm not sure, but I believe that both substances activate the Mu opiate receptor. I'm also not sure, but Kratom works upon other receptors in the brain that buprenorphine doesn't, so that can make it more difficult to withdraw from than a substance that only hits the opioid receptors. I know that people take it for depression, anxiety, mood disorders as well, so that could be another issue when a person stops taking 7oh. I heard it could take a month or so for you to feel better in a psychological aspect, but I don't think that it had any effect on me in that respect.

The last time I took 7oh was the day after Thanksgiving. I have no cravings, I don't even think about it actually, I am just extremely livid at myself due to the fact that I could of bought a car or something to show for with all the money I spent on 7oh.
 
rplate81 said:
How long were you at 1g of daily usage?? I worked myself up to around 300mg almost everyday. I've heard horror stories people that have been taking large amounts of 7oh (around 500mg) daily and when they try to quit, no amount of Subs would help them. Having that in mind, I was pretty scared.

I was already on Buprenorphine MAT, so I had tons of 2mg pills. I took my last dose of 7oh and as usual, in withdrawals within hours :LOL:. Of course it was in the middle of the night. I put half of a 2mg pill under my tongue and tried to sleep. 1mg did seem to help some, but I ended up taking a full 2mg pill under my tongue and that did the trick for me. The next few nights I kept taking 2mg buprenorphine and the withdrawals were completely done by then.

I know that Kratom/7oh is a partial agonist like buprenorphine. I'm not sure, but I believe that both substances activate the Mu opiate receptor. I'm also not sure, but Kratom works upon other receptors in the brain that buprenorphine doesn't, so that can make it more difficult to withdraw from than a substance that only hits the opioid receptors. I know that people take it for depression, anxiety, mood disorders as well, so that could be another issue when a person stops taking 7oh. I heard it could take a month or so for you to feel better in a psychological aspect, but I don't think that it had any effect on me in that respect.

The last time I took 7oh was the day after Thanksgiving. I have no cravings, I don't even think about it actually, I am just extremely livid at myself due to the fact that I could of bought a car or something to show for with all the money I spent on 7oh.
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I was doing over a gram a day at multiple points and stints of varying time some long term others only a month or so before I'd hop back off. I had subs help once and it was with the tablets and I also wasn't doing too much 7 at that point, probably about the same amount u were. It didn't take em away completely or anywhere near but it offered slight relief and every other time I've tried has been with the strips as it's all I can find and it didn't do jack
 
Kurt Cobain said:
I was doing over a gram a day at multiple points and stints of varying time some long term others only a month or so before I'd hop back off. I had subs help once and it was with the tablets and I also wasn't doing too much 7 at that point, probably about the same amount u were. It didn't take em away completely or anywhere near but it offered slight relief and every other time I've tried has been with the strips as it's all I can find and it didn't do jack
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Damn, that sucks. At least the withdrawals from 7oh last 4 days tops, at least they did for me. Are you still taking it?? I think that you mentioned something about using MGM15/16 as well.
 
7R3D@y said:
I mean yea you can but your not gonna get anything from it I've tried and got ziltch, I've even tried smoking it and that don't do shit either
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Damn, you just reminded me that I tried smoking it too :ROFLMAO: I put some e-juice in a glass pipe then put in 7oh. I don't think that it did anything.
 
Everybody, just keep in mind, even if the acute withdrawal syndrome is only for 3-4 days, we know that it is often a lot more complex than that. Cravings persist throughout Post-Acute Withdrawal mirroring the severity of a person´s symptoms. I just want people to approach these things as the long-haul´s that they are, not someting that can be fixed in a long weekend.

@Kurt Cobain that´s pretty fascinating. That is a high number. I´m sure you have so much valuable information to give us about this stuff. You should write a blog man. We need well-spoken, experienced individuals to give us a better understanding of this relatively new substance. I´d definitely love to hear more about your experiences.

I think the relationship between Kratom/7OH and Buprenorphine needs to be looked into more. Given the potency of this 7OH stuff and the amounts reported, I´m actually kind of surprised to hear that Buprenorphine has been used successfully by so many different parties. I can only speculate that the partial-agonist qualities of Mitragynine have some role to play here. I´d love to hear from other people on the subject with experience.
 
Keif' Richards said:
Everybody, just keep in mind, even if the acute withdrawal syndrome is only for 3-4 days, we know that it is often a lot more complex than that. Cravings persist throughout Post-Acute Withdrawal mirroring the severity of a person´s symptoms. I just want people to approach these things as the long-haul´s that they are, not someting that can be fixed in a long weekend.

@Kurt Cobain that´s pretty fascinating. That is a high number. I´m sure you have so much valuable information to give us about this stuff. You should write a blog man. We need well-spoken, experienced individuals to give us a better understanding of this relatively new substance. I´d definitely love to hear more about your experiences.

I think the relationship between Kratom/7OH and Buprenorphine needs to be looked into more. Given the potency of this 7OH stuff and the amounts reported, I´m actually kind of surprised to hear that Buprenorphine has been used successfully by so many different parties. I can only speculate that the partial-agonist qualities of Mitragynine have some role to play here. I´d love to hear from other people on the subject with experience.
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*This post is not worded the best and could be hard to follow, so if anyone wants me to explain anything better, hit me up.

I went into my experiences with being on buprenorphine MAT, which I was stable at 2mg for 6 years. I found out about 7oh last April. The first time I used 7oh, I bought a 50mg Zana shot with a white and blue label. The first week that I was taking them. They felt amazing and keep in mind that I was taking 7oh one day and then my regular 2mg bupe dose the next day, so on and so forth for a few weeks. I know that 2mg is a fairly low dose, but I knew that it was blocking a good amount of the 7. The first month of sticking with the 50 Zana shots was what I would call my "honeymoon phase" with 7oh. After that short period, the magic wore off, which i knew would happen as I've been addicted to all types of opioids for over half of my life.

At the same time, I did a lot of experimenting/tweaking with both 7oh and the buprenorphine.

I am positive that the method that I figured out had been done before. I don't feel that I did anything special, but I was kind of proud of myself since I'd never used 7oh and was learning about 7oh, mitragynine, anything related to the Kratom leaf as I was going along.

Doing 7oh one day, then bupe the next stopped making much sense to me, so I came up with the idea that it could be possible to swap the bupe for 7oh and stay on the 7 for however long I wanted, then jump back on my regular bupe dose and see how smoothly that went.

It took me a good week to get the guts up to completely trade my buprenorphine for 7oh knowing that I'd be in for a lot on withdrawals, which was something that I never had to worry about while being on my stable bupe dose for the last 6 years.

This was just my experience, but doing the bupe to 7 swap, it went off almost seamlessly. At this point, a 50mg smoke shop shot was not cutting it- way too expensive, not as consistent as buying from a reputable online vendor, doesn't always have labs, etc. I started buying online. At first tabs, but I found that buying powder was way cheaper. The problem that I had with the powder was having to buy a digital scale, I have never used one and it took some getting used to, but wasn't that hard to figure out. Also, with the powder is that it's very messy and I did end up dropping a bit of it here at least when I first started using it. I tried capping it up for a while too, but that just made things messier, so I would just measure out what I wanted, put it in my mouth and drink lemon juice with it.

The two good things about the powder, in my experiences, was that buying powder is the cheapest form of buying 7oh compared to tablets or shots.

I also was able to completely taper off my buprenorphine dose that I'd been on everyday for 6 years with the help of the digital scale. I would take a 2mg pill and keep chipping away at it while supplementing it with a small amount of powder and it didn't take me but 2 weeks to get off 2mg of buprenorphine. That was an accomplishment that I was proud of myself personally having no knowledge going into this. I will admit that there were many nights of withdrawals due to the extremely short half life of 7oh, but I proved to myself that it is not hard at all if somebody really wants to get off Subs/Buprenorphine with this method, albeit I was on a low dose of bupe.

My intentions are to stay on Buprenorphine probably the rest of my life as my history shows that after kicking Methadone after being on it for 3 years, I ended up relapsing 6 months after having been through the worst withdrawals of my life. That led me to get onto Suboxone, which I was on for about 4 years, fully did a proper taper only to find a bunch of bupe pills that I did not throw away and with no tolerance they felt amazing to me and that led me to now being back on bupe for the last 6 years.
 
Keif' Richards said:
7-Hydroxymitragynine can be 0.01%-0.04% of the total weight of Kratom leaf. Let's take an average and assume we have 0.02% 70H

Mitagynine is found within Kratom at concentrations ranging from 2%-20%. For our purposes, let's say we have a batch that is right in the middle at 10%
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I'm fairly sure this isn't accurate. Mitragynine is typically between 1%-2%, I've never seen any kratom that had 10% mit, let alone 20%. At least normal unenhanced leaf.
 
Yea guys, I confess that Kratom is not my primary area of expertise. I only know what I´ve read and what people have explained to me. That quotation is from some article, I apologize that I don´t have the citation. We are learning more about this stuff every day. I´m totally fine with being proven wrong. I just want everyone to have the best information available.
 
Keif' Richards said:
Everybody, just keep in mind, even if the acute withdrawal syndrome is only for 3-4 days, we know that it is often a lot more complex than that. Cravings persist throughout Post-Acute Withdrawal mirroring the severity of a person´s symptoms. I just want people to approach these things as the long-haul´s that they are, not someting that can be fixed in a long weekend.

@Kurt Cobain that´s pretty fascinating. That is a high number. I´m sure you have so much valuable information to give us about this stuff. You should write a blog man. We need well-spoken, experienced individuals to give us a better understanding of this relatively new substance. I´d definitely love to hear more about your experiences.

I think the relationship between Kratom/7OH and Buprenorphine needs to be looked into more. Given the potency of this 7OH stuff and the amounts reported, I´m actually kind of surprised to hear that Buprenorphine has been used successfully by so many different parties. I can only speculate that the partial-agonist qualities of Mitragynine have some role to play here. I´d love to hear from other people on the subject with experience.
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I'm curious as well bc I'm pissed I did this to myself again and I'm even more mad subs ain't doing shit 😅
 
I'm one of those people who was taking upwards of 500mg a day of 7OH for 10 or so months, although virtually all smoke shop tabs are under-dosed, some as much as 50% less than advertised according to TMK lab reports. I tapered down to 100mg for one or two days then maybe 200mg for a day or two the past week. Even at those doses an 8mg strip of suboxone only gave me the slightest bit of relief. Even after taking 8mg a day for 3-4 days I still had a runny nose, body pains all over, and couldn't sleep for shit. The most insidious thing is that even after 5 days of taking an 8mg bupe every 24 hours, I slipped up and took 100mg of 7 and although the effects were blunted, I still felt a slight bit of euphoria and energy. This isn't the first time I took 7 after taking a decent amount of subs and I always am able to feel it. In my heroin days an 8mg strip would block all feelings of H unless I quadruped my dose, yet even 100mg of 7 can still be felt.

Anyone have any idea why that might be with 7?

It's also been 36 hours since my last dose of 7 and I'm currently kicking, feeling like shit. This substance has the worst mental aspect of withdrawals as well among any opioid I've ever came off of. The anxiety and feelings of doom and unbearable. I totally recommended not messing with this shit unless you need to use it very sparingly for a toothache or something. I should have known it was bad news when the first time I took 30mg I was nodding out nearly drooling on myself. The fact that something like this in sold in every vape / smoke shop and gas station let alone legal is shocking to me. I have a strong feeling that it's going to be banned federally in the next 6 months to a year maximum. More and more states are beginning to ban it already.

Stick with plain leaf and save yourselves the $10,000+ dollars I've spent of this shit. I actually went from loving 7OH to hating it and I look forward never taking this shit again.
 
ickray said:
I'm one of those people who was taking upwards of 500mg a day of 7OH for 10 or so months, although virtually all smoke shop tabs are under-dosed, some as much as 50% less than advertised according to TMK lab reports. I tapered down to 100mg for one or two days then maybe 200mg for a day or two the past week. Even at those doses an 8mg strip of suboxone only gave me the slightest bit of relief. Even after taking 8mg a day for 3-4 days I still had a runny nose, body pains all over, and couldn't sleep for shit. The most insidious thing is that even after 5 days of taking an 8mg bupe every 24 hours, I slipped up and took 100mg of 7 and although the effects were blunted, I still felt a slight bit of euphoria and energy. This isn't the first time I took 7 after taking a decent amount of subs and I always am able to feel it. In my heroin days an 8mg strip would block all feelings of H unless I quadruped my dose, yet even 100mg of 7 can still be felt.

Anyone have any idea why that might be with 7?

It's also been 36 hours since my last dose of 7 and I'm currently kicking, feeling like shit. This substance has the worst mental aspect of withdrawals as well among any opioid I've ever came off of. The anxiety and feelings of doom and unbearable. I totally recommended not messing with this shit unless you need to use it very sparingly for a toothache or something. I should have known it was bad news when the first time I took 30mg I was nodding out nearly drooling on myself. The fact that something like this in sold in every vape / smoke shop and gas station let alone legal is shocking to me. I have a strong feeling that it's going to be banned federally in the next 6 months to a year maximum. More and more states are beginning to ban it already.

Stick with plain leaf and save yourselves the $10,000+ dollars I've spent of this shit. I actually went from loving 7OH to hating it and I look forward never taking this shit again.
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7 is a partial agonist itself and I suspect has an even higher binding affinity over suboxone that or since they're both partials they both fill that same slot at the same time
 
My sub prescriber said at our last meeting that 70H may be worse than heroin. Kratom can be used safely for recreation and/or pain and I hope it remains on the free market for that purpose. I'm not even going to risk finding out whether 7OH has any therapeutic use, though.

I abused kratom up to 100gpd and it took over my life, at which point I conceded and initiatied suboxone. (If you look at my join date you can see that this was not a decision I made lightly)

I highly recommend the ____AKA___ as a resource.
 
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I wanted to report something. 7-OH brands like Opia specifically have lost potency. I found a shop that purchases Opia from the company and also buying it in NYC from shops that have excess stock. The newer batches from Opia have a reflective glare on the outside and are difficult to break. The older batches are not like this. The older batches have a rapid onset that really produces the warm, rushing feel in the stomach.

The owner brought back Opia "single packs" without expiration dates printed on the pack. These are older generations products that are a night and day difference in potency.
Also brought Opia "single packs" with the expiration dates printed on the packs, obviously a newer generation and they are not as strong.
These newer single packs also have a "tearing slit" which the older generation single packs do not have. The same goes for all other Opia products and the older generations are more potent or something else (RC drugs) were being used.

The same goes for many other brands of 7-OH. The older the product the stronger or there are other active ingredients. Another interesting fact is the older generation Opia produced wicked withdrawals after taking them for 3 days in a row. The newer versions are different.
 
toe said:
My sub prescriber said at our last meeting that 70H may be worse than heroin. Kratom can be used safely for recreation and/or pain and I hope it remains on the free market for that purpose. I'm not even going to risk finding out whether 7OH has any therapeutic use, though.

I abused kratom up to 100gpd and it took over my life, at which point I conceded and initiatied suboxone. (If you look at my join date you can see that this was not a decision I made lightly)

I highly recommend the ____AKA___ as a resource.
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7oh has a very low efficacy for therapeutic uses, will it work sure it will but the issue is how fast dependance sets in, how cray cray wicked fast tolerance rises shit it suo there with gabapentanoids in that regard lol then you have the side effects which are pretty unpleasant if you get them more so than any other opioid. It offers a unique side effect of intense anxiety a lot of time lol
 
Them Witches said:
I wanted to report something. 7-OH brands like Opia specifically have lost potency. I found a shop that purchases Opia from the company and also buying it in NYC from shops that have excess stock. The newer batches from Opia have a reflective glare on the outside and are difficult to break. The older batches are not like this. The older batches have a rapid onset that really produces the warm, rushing feel in the stomach.

The owner brought back Opia "single packs" without expiration dates printed on the pack. These are older generations products that are a night and day difference in potency.
Also brought Opia "single packs" with the expiration dates printed on the packs, obviously a newer generation and they are not as strong.
These newer single packs also have a "tearing slit" which the older generation single packs do not have. The same goes for all other Opia products and the older generations are more potent or something else (RC drugs) were being used.

The same goes for many other brands of 7-OH. The older the product the stronger or there are other active ingredients. Another interesting fact is the older generation Opia produced wicked withdrawals after taking them for 3 days in a row. The newer versions are different.
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It probably has less to do with older stock being more potent and more so to do with the varying levels of the sub primary alkaloids
 
I had a friend die a week ago from an OD on 7 oh and alcohol. He was a major user and alcoholic. I'd presume he probably did over a gram of 7 oh followed by two bottles. I'll miss him forever.
 
IWantFentanylInMyShit said:
I had a friend die a week ago from an OD on 7 oh and alcohol. He was a major user and alcoholic. I'd presume he probably did over a gram of 7 oh followed by two bottles. I'll miss him forever.
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Not physically possible, your friend wasn't just doing 7oh, or he got laced shit and didn't know. 7oh doesn't cause real respiratory depression even when combined with alcohol. I'm not saying it's smart to do so but it wouldn't cause an OD especially if he's at the point of doing a gram of 7 a day but I'm sorry for your loss.
 
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