Do terpenes and 'profiles' really mean fucking anything?

[Allylbenzene]

I'd have to disagree with you Ally - I've been buying grass for 30 years, never been any terpenes in any of it. Not one.

London, the midlands and leeds grass has had terpenes since 2007. Although maybe you're talking about brick compressed stuff? Stuff with seeds and stalks and all. The first time I encountered that I'd easily have assumed it had no terpenes. Compressed and partly fermented by the time it got to the UK...

Why would there be? It takes twice as much effort to grow it, twice as much effort to dry it and there's no buyers even know what terpenes are.

When I grew it, the plant naturally made terpenes. I didn't go through any extra effort and used plain regular seeds. You sound older than me but I discovered limonene in 2010 when I got a 1 litre bottle for mescaline extraction...then I learned what a terpene is and that essential oils are pre-mixed teprenes. Next thing I was visiting the aromatherapy shop for terps.

 

[Jibult]

Terpenes are great. Most cannabis doesnt have any terpenes in it - drying usually destroys them all. I've been using cannabis for 20 years and never had any with terpenes in it. I'd never felt the power of terpenes until I bought a bottle of terpenes and slugged a dose.

You want to know what a sativa feels like? Ten times more sativa feeling than ANY cannabis you've ever had? Buy a bottle of stardawg terpenes and a D9 syringe. Take a capsule of D9 and then take half an OO capsule of terpenes.

You have no idea what you're missing.

All cannabis plants have a terpene profile, as does nearly every other plant on Earth.

Terpenes are produced by the plant itself.

Where things get a little confusing? Some brands/suppliers add terpenes to their product after harvest. It's not typical and usually those products are labelled accordingly, but just the fact that the practice exists can lead to a lot of false assumptions.

What are cannabis terpenes and what do they do?

Learn more about cannabis terpenes, the aromatic oils that give cannabis its distinctive smell. Explore their benefits and discover how they can deepen your appreciation of cannabis.

www.leafly.com

 

[Ismene2]

All cannabis plants have a terpene profile, as does nearly every other plant on Earth.

Terpenes are produced by the plant itself.

Depends on the concentration tho. They're in orange peel too but eating orange peel wont get you a d-limonene high. There's not enough terpenes in any cannabis sold in the UK to feel any effect. Just drying the cannabis will destoy pretty much all the terpenes. Thats why cannabis sellers now specify when they've added terpenes - if there was terpenes already present they wouldnt bother adding them.

I was buying cannabis for 30 years - none of it had enough terpenes to ever notice any effect. Its only by adding terpenes yourself you notice the effect. Try adding a 1000mg capsule of d-limonene the next time you take cannabis and you'll get the idea - its like a completely different drug.

 

[Jibult]

Depends on the concentration tho. They're in orange peel too but eating orange peel wont get you a d-limonene high. There's not enough terpenes in any cannabis sold in the UK to feel any effect. Just drying the cannabis will destoy pretty much all the terpenes. Thats why cannabis sellers now specify when they've added terpenes - if there was terpenes already present they wouldnt bother adding them.

I was buying cannabis for 30 years - none of it had enough terpenes to ever notice any effect. Its only by adding terpenes yourself you notice the effect. Try adding a 1000mg capsule of d-limonene the next time you take cannabis and you'll get the idea - its like a completely different drug.

100%

It's arguable that terpenes alone will give you a high at all.

I was just saying that they're present. Terpenes are largely responsible for the taste and aroma of plants.

There's a distinct line between saying "most cannabis doesn't have terpenes, they usually get destroyed in drying" (which is untrue) and that "most cannabis I've tried didn't have a terpene profile strong enough to be noticeable."

That said... does your weed have a smell? The skunky smell is caused by another chemical entirely, but when there's a hint of diesel? Fruity, like Fruity Pebbles? Citrusy? Maybe kind of oaky?

If you open the bag and smell anything other than hay, you've got terpenes in that thing.

I don't really buy into the terpene shots. I'm honestly just fine with the products I have. To put it into perspective? A gram of extremely potent weed with high terpenes will top out around 40mg of any specific terpene per gram of weed. You'll never find a bag that organically hits you with 1000mg of limonene or linalool or eucalyptol. Ingesting that much at once is unnatural. It doesn't surprise me that there are unique effects at those levels.

I don't look for anything other than the inclusion of a few specific cannabinoids to be above 2%-3%. I'm not the most educated on them but it seems like flower with CBG and CBV present at those levels really hit the spot for me. It almost doesn't matter what the THC content is when those two are included.

ETA: @Ismene2 , I've edited this so many times, man. I think this is the final draft, I'm just not sure if you peeped it 30min ago when it was three lines. As I've been going through this though, tweaking the response.... I've realized that we're both talking about different things. You're referring to the psychoactive potential of terpenes and I'm just sitting here talking about how terpenes are what make weed smell good. Just wanted to point out that I finally figured that out

 

[Ismene2]

I get your drift Jibult!! Yeah I mean the psychoactive effect rather than the smell and flavour- it has a really powerful effect on me mentally - just makes cannabis a lot more useful to me.

You gonna take a capsule of d-limonene?!!

 

[Jibult]

I get your drift Jibult!! Yeah I mean the psychoactive effect rather than the smell and flavour- it has a really powerful effect on me mentally - just makes cannabis a lot more useful to me.

You gonna take a capsule of d-limonene?!!

I don't plan on it.

Maybe if there's a promo event at a store around me and samples are available....

 

[Skorpio]

Of all the people on BL I'm surprised you haven't seen the (hundreds?) of papers about the pharmacological MOA of terpenoids. I estimate they are responsible for at least 40-50% of the plants overall theraputic and psychoactive effects. They're also active orally & topically.

I tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to reading the literature. In real life, I spent a few years chasing ghosts as I made a big model for the corner of the field I worked in by tying the conclusions of papers together.

This led me astray, and made me realize that even decent journals (JBC, PNAS, Nature, Cell, Science) often have all of these subtle background conditions that need to be met. I started gaining traction when I would simply run experiments to confirm these papers, so I could know that truly these.

As for terpenes, a lot of the papers I have seen typically use a readout like looking at NFkB activity or the expression of various downstream products. I have had trouble finding studies which identify an initial target for these terpenes and then pick apart the downstream signaling (ideally via knockout studies or using inhibitors).

If you know of any good ones, I’d love to see them. I’ve been spending most of my time recently looking for work and have unfortunately had less time for “recreational” reading of studies.

 

[Allylbenzene]

It's arguable that terpenes alone will give you a high at all.

All terpenoids have very real biological activity which includes psychoactive effects.

I was just saying that they're present. Terpenes are largely responsible for the taste and aroma of plants.

Cannabis terpenoids are responsible for at least 40% of the plants overall theraputic benefits. Generally speaking a plants terpenoids are a major contributor to it's overall medicinal value.

 

[Allylbenzene]

As for terpenes, a lot of the papers I have seen typically use a readout like looking at NFkB activity or the expression of various downstream products. I have had trouble finding studies which identify an initial target for these terpenes and then pick apart the downstream signaling (ideally via knockout studies or using inhibitors).

Usually searching for the terpene name on pubmed alongside keywords like 'pharmacological' or 'mechanism of action' (or 'dopamine/gaba/serotonin et al) will suffice.

Sometimes studies refer to them as 'monoterpenes' so using this keyword is also appropriate. Reading studies is one thing but administering terpenes and finding out first hand is another. Both are complementary.

On linalool specifically:
Linalool as a Therapeutic and Medicinal Tool in Depression Treatment: A Review
https://doi.org/10.2174/1570159X19666210920094504

On linalool + pinene:
A Review of the Potential Use of Pinene and Linalool as Terpene-Based Medicines for Brain Health
https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.583211

 

[Skorpio]

Usually searching for the terpene name on pubmed alongside keywords like 'pharmacological' or 'mechanism of action' (or 'dopamine/gaba/serotonin et al) will suffice.

Sometimes studies refer to them as 'monoterpenes' so using this keyword is also appropriate. Reading studies is one thing but administering terpenes and finding out first hand is another. Both are complementary.

On linalool specifically:
Linalool as a Therapeutic and Medicinal Tool in Depression Treatment: A Review
https://doi.org/10.2174/1570159X19666210920094504

On linalool + pinene:
A Review of the Potential Use of Pinene and Linalool as Terpene-Based Medicines for Brain Health
https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.583211

Those reviews are the kind of paper I was talking about trying to avoid.

The experiments tend to be light on mechanistic findings, and they tend to use millimolar doses to see effects. That is a ludicrous concentration, and it doesn’t really explain their effects that occur at hundreds to thousands of times lower of a dose when people consume cannabis.

If you give an organism enough of any compound you will see effects.

The kind of paper I would get excited by would I) not be a review, II) contain multiple types of evidence (in vitro and in vivo is always strong, but a thoughtful set of either is better, and III) explain some mechanistic details, as these hypotheses require a lot more support.

I believe that terpenes do have activity, I just haven’t been overwhelmed by the quality of the research on the topic.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I believe that terpenes do have activity, I just haven’t been overwhelmed by the quality of the research on the topic.

Right. All studies thus far have identified the likely receptors & co that are involved in a terpenes effects but I'm sure there are others yet to be discovered.

Research on terpenes that interact with the cannabinoid system is ongoing. Some appear to interact directly with CB1/CB2, others indirectly. This also involves the "extended endocannabinoid system" which itself is still being uncovered...

The basic ECS is comprised of two main cannabinoid receptors CB1 CB2... endocannabinoids... and enzymes involved in endocannabinoid metabolism. There are additional extensions to the basic ECS, termed the “extended” ECS. ... Though their primary functions are best characterized in other pathways, the extended ECS receptors functionally interact with endocannabinoid ligands, the phytocannabinoids present in the Cannabis plant...
https://doi.org/10.14814/phy2.15947

For others reading this who might be skeptical, terpenes are active orally, topically & smoked/vaped. You can easily find this out for yourself. The unique terpene profile of a strain makes a strain what it is (alongside cannabinoids & the other biologically active compounds).

Terpenes interact with various areas including dopamine, serotonin, opioid, adrenergic, GABA, cannabinoid, glutamate, adenosine, cholinergic and dozens of enzymes (eg COX2, CYP, MAO).

 

[Mjäll]

Terpenes are in lots of food. Few people consider lemon balm or rosemary psychoactive.

The psychoactivity of other cannabinoids is also dubious. Even CBD has shown no effect in some studies. Yes, not even a modulatory effect on the THC high. There are suggested neurological targets for several cannabinoids, but they are not common psychoactive targets and the compounds may not even be active in a common dosage range.

I'm not saying these things aren't healthy in some way but i don't believe they are part of the high which makes us care about cannabis specifically.

 

[Ismene2]

My view is if you havn't taken doses of terpenes with it you've never experienced what cannabis can really do. I was taking cannabis for 30 years but 29 years of that was a waste of time. When I discovered terpenes this year - that's when I started taking cannabis for real.

Without terpenes you may as well be getting high on your own farts.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

My view is if you havn't taken doses of terpenes with it you've never experienced what cannabis can really do. I was taking cannabis for 30 years but 29 years of that was a waste of time. When I discovered terpenes this year - that's when I started taking cannabis for real.

Without terpenes you may as well be getting high on your own farts.

give us some examples of quantities of named terpenes you've added to xxx amount of named weed and how you've ingested it - also perhaps a little comparison to effects pre and post terpene addition

in your own time of course!

 

[Ismene2]

I just buy some D9, capsule it up and then mix and match my terpenes depending on my mood - my current selection of terpenes are stardawg, sour diesel, pineapple express and I've also got a bag of d-limonene capsules. The d-limonene is the most energetic.

Depending on the blend of terpenes you drink, the high differs.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Terpenes are in lots of food. Few people consider lemon balm or rosemary psychoactive.

Both of those are psychoactive. If you've never used lemon balm oil or rosemary oil for their psychoactive purposes then you'd rightly consider them inactive. The majority of terpene-containing herbs & spices are psychoactive in some way. You're on bluelight.org btw...

The psychoactivity of other cannabinoids is also dubious. Even CBD has shown no effect in some studies. Yes, not even a modulatory effect on the THC high. There are suggested neurological targets for several cannabinoids, but they are not common psychoactive targets and the compounds may not even be active in a common dosage range.

I'm not saying these things aren't healthy in some way but i don't believe they are part of the high which makes us care about cannabis specifically.

If you've never had the opportunity to try isolated cannabinoids then your assumptions and conclusions are correct and well-reasoned. Excuse me while I double check that I'm still on the bluelight.org drug forums.

I just buy some D9, capsule it up and then mix and match my terpenes depending on my mood - my current selection of terpenes are stardawg, sour diesel, pineapple express and I've also got a bag of d-limonene capsules.
...
Depending on the blend of terpenes you drink, the high differs.

This guy gets it! Bravo @Ismene2. In UK you can legally buy CBG and CBD isolate which you'll find dramatically amplify & improve the effects of THC/terpenes. A mix of THC:CBG:CBD of 1:2:1 is recommended.

Personally I prefer to get my terpenes from pure stream-distilled plant essential oils which provide nearly all the terpenoids you'd ever need. Mix n match. Also it's cheaper than the pre-mixed strain terpenes.

The d-limonene is the most energetic.

If you want sweet KO just buy 98% pure linalool aka "ho wood" essential oil. A 10ml bottle of stream-distilled oil costs £3. Lasts ages. Plays v well with limonene.

If you ever want to make your own THC just mix CBD isolate (£3/g) with highly concentrated lemon juice and leave it warm overnight. Adding a small amount of ethanol helps. Shake/stir it every now and then. 1g CBD gives about ½ g THC but there's room for improvement. The end product is 100% food-grade.

 

[Allylbenzene]

give us some examples of quantities of named terpenes you've added to xxx amount of named weed and how you've ingested it

If using pure stream-distilled essential oils it's as simple as administering them as desired. You can add a drop directly onto bud or rolling paper (let it dry)... or dilute them for use in capsules or topically (or edibles, coffee etc).

The essential oils are basically pre-mixed terpenes ready for use.

• Lemon, lime & orange oils have limomene-dominant terpene profiles (lemon is ~70%, lime ~40%, orange 90%).
• Pine oil has a pinene-dominant profile ft alpha-pinene, beta-pinene.
• ...and so on with the 100's of available oils...

Practically speaking:
...for Sativa energising vibes choose pine, lemon, eucalyptus, pink pepper oils (pinene, limonene, cineole, phellandrene). For psychedelic qualities add Lemon myrtle oil (95%+ citral which hits the psychedelic 5-HT2A receptor).

...for Indica mellow vibes choose lavender, hop, chamomile oils (linalool, humulene, myrcene, caryophyllene, bisabolol).

 

[Ismene2]

I think together with the terpenes and cannabis you simply MUST INHALE YOUR OWN FARTS. This creates a unique high.

 

[Ismene2]

If using pure stream-distilled essential oils it's as simple as administering them as desired. You can add a drop directly onto bud or rolling paper (let it dry)... or dilute them for use in capsules or topically (or edibles, coffee etc).

The essential oils are basically pre-mixed terpenes ready for use.

• Lemon, lime & orange oils have limomene-dominant terpene profiles (lemon is ~70%, lime ~40%, orange 90%).
• Pine oil has a pinene-dominant profile ft alpha-pinene, beta-pinene.
• ...and so on with the 100's of available oils...

Practically speaking:
...for Sativa energising vibes choose pine, lemon, eucalyptus, pink pepper oils (pinene, limonene, cineole, phellandrene). For psychedelic qualities add Lemon myrtle oil (95%+ citral which hits the psychedelic 5-HT2A receptor).

...for Indica mellow vibes choose lavender, hop, chamomile oils (linalool, humulene, myrcene, caryophyllene, bisabolol).

Are you buying these as essential oils rather than the commercial bottles of "cannabis terpenes" they sell? Is it any cheaper? I never thought of that.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Are you buying these as essential oils rather than the commercial bottles of "cannabis terpenes" they sell? Is it any cheaper?

Yes, it's probably 10 times cheaper and guaranteed natural. Make sure you buy theraputic grade stream-distilled essential oils. They will provide terpenes which you can't find in cannabis too, like citral (psychedelic) or the opioid ones in myrrh oil.