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Health I do not believe LSD or psychedelics causes irreparable harm to people diagnosed with schizophrenia or history of psychosis

i don't know if everyone that hears voices is considered schizophrenic, but just cause a person hears voices outside their head or whatever doesn't mean they can't handle tripping... i think the people in this thread saying schizophrenics can't trip is because there are a great deal of schizophrenics who have had problems with tripping. there are people with voices that don't get diagnosed... i know a handful of people that hear voices and trip or did trip and they are fine. one of them might be having delusions about his childhood, but i'm honestly torn whether or not his story about a relative molesting him is real so he might actually be sane.... i really have no idea what to think. it's possible drugs really messed this person up, but lsd can mess up a regular person too... so i don't think it's cut and dry what people should do.

there are plenty of people that don't have schizophrenia that shouldn't be tripping too... instead of taking drugs away from people. they should be making safe spaces for people to trip and evaluate themselves with the help of others... to say psychedelics aren't for schizophrenics is terrible and wrong.. like user MI$TER-ED was saying, in the 60's the studies were coming out kind of different. there was potential for LSD to help the mood of children with problems too.... there is supposedly some drug coming out like LSD that doesn't cause hallucinations and it might be good for schizophrenics... i think in the right environment, even the hallucination part of LSD could be helpful if you could give the person a good trip... people aren't thinking about why people in other countries with different cultures aren't hearing as disturbing of voices. i get that someone is going to correct me and say there were parts of the tests in the 60's where LSD wasn't good, and i'm gonna say they might not've been putting people in the right environment, or it could've just been the people they were evaluating. i'm not going to say there wouldn't be casualties with letting schizophrenics use LSD. i'm saying it means more to the people that can have positive outcomes from tripping to be able to do what they need to do. tripping could be a part of someone's spiritual quest even if they are schizophrenics... with a lot of the artists and musicians that i gather are probably schizophrenic, i would say that psychedelics are actually for schizophrenics that are on some type of spiritual quest through art. not everyone has an art to help guide them through their trip though. i'm not saying it's necessary for someone to need an art to enjoy tripping either.


with drugs being illegal and what people are shown in this society, i probably wouldn't recommend schizophrenics tripping.. i think a lot of people freak out with LSD because it's illegal, and other weirder delusions might actually spawn because the illegality of use.
 
foodcrisis said:
i don't know if everyone that hears voices is considered schizophrenic, but just cause a person hears voices outside their head or whatever doesn't mean they can't handle tripping... i think the people in this thread saying schizophrenics can't trip is because there are a great deal of schizophrenics who have had problems with tripping. there are people with voices that don't get diagnosed... i know a handful of people that hear voices and trip or did trip and they are fine. one of them might be having delusions about his childhood, but i'm honestly torn whether or not his story about a relative molesting him is real so he might actually be sane.... i really have no idea what to think. it's possible drugs really messed this person up, but lsd can mess up a regular person too... so i don't think it's cut and dry what people should do.

there are plenty of people that don't have schizophrenia that shouldn't be tripping too... instead of taking drugs away from people. they should be making safe spaces for people to trip and evaluate themselves with the help of others... to say psychedelics aren't for schizophrenics is terrible and wrong.. like user MI$TER-ED was saying, in the 60's the studies were coming out kind of different. there was potential for LSD to help the mood of children with problems too.... there is supposedly some drug coming out like LSD that doesn't cause hallucinations and it might be good for schizophrenics... i think in the right environment, even the hallucination part of LSD could be helpful if you could give the person a good trip... people aren't thinking about why people in other countries with different cultures aren't hearing as disturbing of voices. i get that someone is going to correct me and say there were parts of the tests in the 60's where LSD wasn't good, and i'm gonna say they might not've been putting people in the right environment, or it could've just been the people they were evaluating. i'm not going to say there wouldn't be casualties with letting schizophrenics use LSD. i'm saying it means more to the people that can have positive outcomes from tripping to be able to do what they need to do. tripping could be a part of someone's spiritual quest even if they are schizophrenics... with a lot of the artists and musicians that i gather are probably schizophrenic, i would say that psychedelics are actually for schizophrenics that are on some type of spiritual quest through art. not everyone has an art to help guide them through their trip though. i'm not saying it's necessary for someone to need an art to enjoy tripping either.


with drugs being illegal and what people are shown in this society, i probably wouldn't recommend schizophrenics tripping.. i think a lot of people freak out with LSD because it's illegal, and other weirder delusions might actually spawn because the illegality of use.
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That because you aren't banned for having acute paranormal views In those countries & are not seen as the blame. Autism removal from being a schizo sub type was based on this but now your left with people who act like their on Ketamine/shrooms who are shuned as fruads, Chris chan was almost not considered Classic type because of this.
 
Food crisis-- I just speak on it with great caution as I am not personally schizophrenic and I don't want to speculate on peoples mental health. You are right though I am taking the cautious route.
foodcrisis said:
i don't know if everyone that hears voices is considered schizophrenic, but just cause a person hears voices outside their head or whatever doesn't mean they can't handle tripping...
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Blackjackal -- Im not quite following you? Start seeing ghosts in the US and you talking to a shrink -- a long time before a paranormal crew shows up. (Unless you are exceedingly wealthy I suppose - that is always an outlier here

Ketamine shrooms shunned as frauds? Extrapolate please I am missing the point of your post I THINK.
 
hypothesis: if schizophrenia or psychosis is in any way associated to, say, stress and depression, using psychedelics could prevent psychosis or psychotic disorders developing by treating mental health.

I do however suggest avoiding psychedelics if there are obvious symptoms present because anecdotal reports and all that.
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Blackjackal -- Im not quite following you? Start seeing ghosts in the US and you talking to a shrink -- a long time before a paranormal crew shows up. (Unless you are exceedingly wealthy I suppose - that is always an outlier here

Ketamine shrooms shunned as frauds? Extrapolate please I am missing the point of your post I THINK.
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Giving someone Psychdelics or Dissos with Classic Autism/ASD 2+, Has the same risks If your Schizopherinc.
 
I dunno man.. I got a family member who is a bit off the rails and I'm quite positive the psychedelics made it worse..
 
M!$TER-ED said:
If by chance I am wrong and long-term psychosis sets in..so what! I survived psychosis 3 times in my lifetime and I can do it again.

I guess you might call my mission to disprove the old narrative about psychedelics and schizophrenia.
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This does not seem like a mission with potential results that are useful enough to warrant playing Russian roulette with your mind. This is such an incredibly niche area with very little in the way of consequences either way that I really think you should reconsider.

Let's say you demonstrate that there is no great link between psychotic disorders and their getting worse with psychedelics. Yay, now a tiny subset of a small fraction of a community might have very limited evidence about something they previously didn't. And it goes badly, you've basically thrown away your mental health for nothing beyond further substantiating something broadly already understood by modern medicine. You should not assume that because you've gotten through psychosis before , that this will keep happening.
 
swilow said:
This does not seem like a mission with potential results that are useful enough to warrant playing Russian roulette with your mind. This is such an incredibly niche area with very little in the way of consequences either way that I really think you should reconsider.

Let's say you demonstrate that there is no great link between psychotic disorders and their getting worse with psychedelics. Yay, now a tiny subset of a small fraction of a community might have very limited evidence about something they previously didn't. And it goes badly, you've basically thrown away your mental health for nothing beyond further substantiating something broadly already understood by modern medicine. You should not assume that because you've gotten through psychosis before , that this will keep happening.
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iDK I feel strongly the information about LSD and schizophrenia is as much of a lie as the war on drugs was about our health and welfare. Schizophrenia happened to be the worse mental illness thought disorder known to man in the 60s & 70s. It is no wonder Nixon chose schizophrenia as the LSD scapegoat, striking fear and madness in consumers as a means of social control. Schizophrenia became the poster child for LSD propaganda, this seems evident even today from everyone's concern. I don't buy it, no one knows for certain that LSD will escalate psychotic symptoms in me. So far psilocybin has not been a problem, I haven't tripped per se but I know it was in my system and it may have helped me overcome depression, allowing me to stop taking medication.
 
M!$TER-ED said:
iDK I feel strongly the information about LSD and schizophrenia is as much of a lie as the war on drugs was about our health and welfare. Schizophrenia happened to be the worse mental illness thought disorder known to man in the 60s & 70s. It is no wonder Nixon chose schizophrenia as the LSD scapegoat, striking fear and madness in consumers as a means of social control. Schizophrenia became the poster child for LSD propaganda, this seems evident even today from everyone's concern. I don't buy it, no one knows for certain that LSD will escalate psychotic symptoms in me. So far psilocybin has not been a problem, I haven't tripped per se but I know it was in my system and it may have helped me overcome depression, allowing me to stop taking medication.
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There are risks that are worth taking and those that aren't. To my mind, this is one of the latter.

There is enough anecdotal testimony which suggests that psychosis and psychedelic don't play nicely together that anyone considering combining the two should probably be gently dissuaded, particularly in the context of a harm reduction forum.

Your motivations don't seem especially valid to me. It seems like you're making an ideological choice based on some issue with Nixon and the war on drugs. This is certainly something I am opposed to- the war on drugs has always been overreach and essentially counter-productive, but if you really want to do some sort of activist thing in this area, gambling with your sanity isn't it. If it goes wrong, your life is made infinitely more difficult and you've also provided fuel to the ideologues who think drug use is always dangerous and that drug users are deranged people.

Do what you will. I think it's a very bad idea.
 
swilow said:
There are risks that are worth taking and those that aren't. To my mind, this is one of the latter.

There is enough anecdotal testimony which suggests that psychosis and psychedelic don't play nicely together that anyone considering combining the two should probably be gently dissuaded, particularly in the context of a harm reduction forum.

Your motivations don't seem especially valid to me. It seems like you're making an ideological choice based on some issue with Nixon and the war on drugs. This is certainly something I am opposed to- the war on drugs has always been overreach and essentially counter-productive, but if you really want to do some sort of activist thing in this area, gambling with your sanity isn't it. If it goes wrong, your life is made infinitely more difficult and you've also provided fuel to the ideologues who think drug use is always dangerous and that drug users are deranged people.

Do what you will. I think it's a very bad idea.
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Thanks
 
SeekingOblivion said:
@pupnik “how would one know if a person has a propensity for schizophrenia"? This is a scientific thing and it consists of first degree relative with schizophrenia/family history of schizophrenia. There are are things, but that right there is the big one. Where you’ve got one for sure schizophrenic in a family, there is almost always a family member or two with it or some spectrum of it.
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What I am saying is that it is not genetic.
The feelings and behavior and thought patterns of any form of madness - call it schizophrenia or psychotic mania etc. whatever. - these patterns do imprint on children both natural and adopted, and can also imprint on house staff.

separate from family histrionics, people have their own individual character and path that they are attracted to follow.

a person who is attracted to healthful practices, who understands where they come from in context, is not going to automatically become schizophrenic or any other form of diagnostically manic when they add LSD. Having some perspective on their origins a person will be able to trip healthfully even if they come from a family that is mentally rough trade.
 
moonyham said:
I dunno man.. I got a family member who is a bit off the rails and I'm quite positive the psychedelics made it worse..
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people go where they are naturally headed, that is the nature of mind set.
with a rough background we can still pull it together and be headed in a good direction, taking what arises in stride.
 
pupnik said:
What I am saying is that it is not genetic.
The feelings and behavior and thought patterns of any form of madness - call it schizophrenia or psychotic mania etc. whatever. - these patterns do imprint on children both natural and adopted, and can also imprint on house staff.

separate from family histrionics, people have their own individual character and path that they are attracted to follow.

a person who is attracted to healthful practices, who understands where they come from in context, is not going to automatically become schizophrenic or any other form of diagnostically manic when they add LSD. Having some perspective on their origins a person will be able to trip healthfully even if they come from a family that is mentally rough trade.
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You are correct that genetics are not the only thing at play in the development of schizophrenia. But they are one of the most important things in predicting/understanding why it develops in some and not others.

The Genetics of Schizophrenia - PMC

Schizophrenia is a complex biological disorder with multifactorial mode of transmission where non-genetic determinants are also play important role. It is now clear that it involves combined effect of many genes, each conferring a small increase in ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Well it's like genetics has got the full weight of science behind it - and on the other side is your Uncle saying his dads brother took a thumbful and never came back dawg"
 
Psychedelics and schizophrenia: A mystery in history. Haden M, Woods BA, Paschall SA. Journal of Psychedelic Studies, 7(3), 174–183. DOI: 10.1556/2054.2023.00277
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The relationship between psychedelics and schizophrenia has a long history and is fraught with complexity. Prior to the ban on psychedelic research with the U.S. Controlled Substances Act in 1970, these substances were being used on a variety of patients including those with chronic schizophrenia.
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… it is appropriate to widen the current range of indications for which psychedelics can be beneficial and review historical documents for both lessons learned and hidden gems.
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Psychedelics are generally treated as risk factors in the mainstream research literature with the potential to cause destabilization or exacerbations of schizophrenia. It is therefore interesting to note that in spite of this near unanimity, there appears to be examples in both historical literature and current (mostly survey) research where psychedelics have been reported to have a beneficial impact on those with this mental health diagnosis. While, currently, research is very limited, Turkia (Turkia & December, 2022) reported a case study where a teenager who was diagnosed with an acute schizophrenia-like psychotic disorder successfully self-treated with LSD and DMT.
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Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin. Gary Fisher, Ph.D. MAPS Newsletter, vol. 7, no. 3, Summer of 1997

Gary Fisher - Treatment of Childhood Schizophrenia Utilizing LSD and Psilocybin. @TheHallOfRecords. 2011-06-15. YouTube.


Researchers Develop an LSD Analogue with Potential for Treating Schizophrenia. Greg Watry. 2025-04-14. ucdavis.edu
 
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Ismene2 said:
Well it's like genetics has got the full weight of science behind it - and on the other side is your Uncle saying his dads brother took a thumbful and never came back dawg"
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You’re only making a helpful point if the uncle had a family history of schizophrenia.
 
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