Crack smoking universal advice DEBUNKED

[Zopiclone bandit]

correct, the US struggles when it comes to illicit drugs

also the campaign against "pain patients & benz patients" to remove them from their medications due to the community of addicts that have never had a legit legal pain or benzo Rx from a doctor. right now the US is at it's lowest prescribing of pain medications since 1992 and suicide rates are up 900% from pain patients being forcefully removed from their stable pain medications.

I would say that is a sad state of affairs in every sense of the definition.

Is this a Trump policy?

The UK used to have legal Heroin scripts till the late 1970's where you could go to a Chemist & get medical grade Heroin like any medicine, it was The USA who pushed through stupid laws via The U.N. that fucked up the system over here & pushed our addicts onto the street.
Good thing The UK has lots of Afghan & Pakistan people who have family connections in the tribal areas though #wink

 

[Them Witches]

Is this a Trump policy?

The UK used to have legal Heroin scripts till the late 1970's where you could go to a Chemist & get medical grade Heroin like any medicine, it was The USA who pushed through stupid laws via The U.N. that fucked up the system over here & pushed our addicts onto the street.
Good thing The UK has lots of Afghan & Pakistan people who have family connections in the tribal areas though #wink

Trump is not to blame. The crusade against pain patients began long before Trump. The pain patients are to blame for being in pain and receiving legal prescriptions, they are to blame because addicts seek drugs not prescribed to them. The world should always cater to those that cannot stay out of the position of being fucked. It is always the car's fault for someone standing in the middle of the road refusing to move as a 4000lb object needs to travel in it's appropriate lane of travel. Shit, blame the road for being there because it is the road's fault too.

 

[Keif' Richards]

@Them Witches addicts in this country are the community punching bag. The Hippocratic Oath means nothing when they are willing to put their own comfort before their patients.

I've told the story of my Grandmother. I took care of her for several months. Knee replacement, dementia, back pain, the works. She ran out of Lorazepam (Ativan) 3 days early. It was a bad month. Doc IMMEDIATELY pulled her off everything, no taper was required. Oxycodone, Gabapentin, Lorazepam and they were all withdrawn overnight. I spoke with her doctor who referred to my angel of a Grandmother as a "drug seeker". He in fact screamed at me, for my Grandmother's totally selfish actions put his license in jeapordy.

Your own Grandma? Lifetime Teetotaler, community member, friend to all... she became so sick that she was essentially psychotic and unable to keep food down. Took her to the ER. They read in her chart that she was a drug-seeker. This doctor essentially told my honest as can be grandmother to "stop putting on a show we are not writing any prescriptions".

Nobody cares about us about us. Normal people, including normal people whose addictions have just remained hidden, love to use addicts as the reason for everything wrong. My Grandmother was not right for 6 months... picture your grandma trembling saying "please, please I'll do anything I just need a couple pills. She wasn't an addict. They made her one through irresponsible poly-substance prescribing.

6mg Lorazepam per day
10mg Methadone per day
~60mg Morphine per day
3200mg Gabapentin per day

Cherry on top, I had to explain to her doctor why she could not immediately just start taking Buprenorphine (Suboxone). This guy did not fucking know. You feel like it's not real the first few times you see docs really act in completely unsympathetic, selfish, incompetent ways.

Don't play the game that's provided. Do your research. Figure out what you need. Manipulate a doctor into prescribing it. Literally, like sheep, listing the indications for the drug in a non-chalant way often makes the doc feel like he has solved a problem. Don't ever tell docs you know a goddamn thing about medication.

 

[4DQSAR]

Sorry for the slight OT but I have noted a few times that there is an R-4066 derivative (a semi-rigid analogue of methadone) that has a vastly longer duration of action (than methadone) and is some x106 more potent then methadone.

Sci-Hub : {title} [{doi}]

If you scroll down to the second page, the right-hand column has a graph with methadone at the top (2a) and the compound I believe may help with the fentanyl crisis at the botom (1c).

I can't find any later research but it does overlay some other potent MOR ligands i.e. unlike R-5260 it's analgesic activity isn't largely mediated by NOP activity. I did look into the affinity data for both just to confirm that (important) detail. Back then academic papers just specified the 'the opiate receptor' i.e. not even the granularity of MOR, KOR and DOR, let alone NOP. So a training set was employed to differentiate the two.

Obviously animal models tell us little and I for one would be looking for cardiotoxicity especially since methadone and various analogues demonstrate that issue. ORLAAM was seen as a huge breaktrhrough until morbidity was calculated. But IF like ORLAAM patients only need consume the medication three times per week, that combined with the potency MAY represent a possible solution. I am aware of the Chinese developed compounds such as thienorphine and TH-030418, but I assume they are both patented and I KNOW the synthesis isn't simple.

But getting back to freebase cocaine, I was surprised to learn that methods that avoided dangerous solvents were known as long ago as the 1960s. I've noted that the DEA now defines 'crack' as being made using baking soda OR ammonia solution. It's hard to know if the ammonia method was sort of introduced within certain circles (large scale importers who wanted to test the purity of the product) but did not reach down to retailers.

I noted something that may just be location specific but several crack users mentioned that IF Spice (or whateverthehellitis) was available, they chose the Spice. Seems so odd given how different the action seems to be but I did listen. They all repeated the statement several times. Can anyone say if this more generally true or if this is location specific?

 

[Them Witches]

@Them Witches addicts in this country are the community punching bag. The Hippocratic Oath means nothing when they are willing to put their own comfort before their patients.

I've told the story of my Grandmother. I took care of her for several months. Knee replacement, dementia, back pain, the works. She ran out of Lorazepam (Ativan) 3 days early. It was a bad month. Doc IMMEDIATELY pulled her off everything, no taper was required. Oxycodone, Gabapentin, Lorazepam and they were all withdrawn overnight. I spoke with her doctor who referred to my angel of a Grandmother as a "drug seeker". He in fact screamed at me, for my Grandmother's totally selfish actions put his license in jeapordy.

Your own Grandma? Lifetime Teetotaler, community member, friend to all... she became so sick that she was essentially psychotic and unable to keep food down. Took her to the ER. They read in her chart that she was a drug-seeker. This doctor essentially told my honest as can be grandmother to "stop putting on a show we are not writing any prescriptions".

Nobody cares about us about us. Normal people, including normal people whose addictions have just remained hidden, love to use addicts as the reason for everything wrong. My Grandmother was not right for 6 months... picture your grandma trembling saying "please, please I'll do anything I just need a couple pills. She wasn't an addict. They made her one through irresponsible poly-substance prescribing.

6mg Lorazepam per day
10mg Methadone per day
~60mg Morphine per day
3200mg Gabapentin per day

Cherry on top, I had to explain to her doctor why she could not immediately just start taking Buprenorphine (Suboxone). This guy did not fucking know. You feel like it's not real the first few times you see docs really act in completely unsympathetic, selfish, incompetent ways.

Don't play the game that's provided. Do your research. Figure out what you need. Manipulate a doctor into prescribing it. Literally, like sheep, listing the indications for the drug in a non-chalant way often makes the doc feel like he has solved a problem. Don't ever tell docs you know a goddamn thing about medication.

I am sorry that happened so close to you. I know a great deal of patients having the same thing happening to them. The doctor assisting in leading the crusade by the DeA knows it is the wrong way but is not standing up from his/her patietns. As if this will all blow over and things will return to normal. No, they will not. The DeA will use this as evidence for patients being able to come off their medications without any help. It sickens me this is taking place in a country that went to war the past three times to secure and manage illicit poppy production.

 

[4DQSAR]

In the UK we do not have an agency comparible to the DEA.

However...

Doctors ARE concerned that concomitant prescribing of multiple CNS depressants, especially in eldely/frail patients COULD, at least in theory, be held to have resulted in worse (the worst) outcomes. Put simply, it's far harder to seek a legal remedy if a doctor witholds medication as compated to medication being considered as having contributed to a fatality.

We have data showing that over a third of people recieving palliative care spent the last three months of their lives in 'severe' or 'overwhelming' pain.

I do understand that the US for-profit model can mean patients don't have the resources to see their own doctor but here, I always advise people that it's important to remain in contact with clinicians even if eveything is going well. Here, people of my age are given an annual check-up and I make certain to mention each medication and report on them. Simply stating that a medication 1)works and 2)produces no side-effects will go onto my record.

As for palliative care, not going to happen. When I'm shown the red card, I'm exiting stage left the moment I have no quality of life. It's sort of a family tradition.

 

[Stassi202]

Sorry for the slight OT but I have noted a few times that there is an R-4066 derivative (a semi-rigid analogue of methadone) that has a vastly longer duration of action (than methadone) and is some x106 more potent then methadone.

Sci-Hub : {title} [{doi}]

If you scroll down to the second page, the right-hand column has a graph with methadone at the top (2a) and the compound I believe may help with the fentanyl crisis at the botom (1c).

I can't find any later research but it does overlay some other potent MOR ligands i.e. unlike R-5260 it's analgesic activity isn't largely mediated by NOP activity. I did look into the affinity data for both just to confirm that (important) detail. Back then academic papers just specified the 'the opiate receptor' i.e. not even the granularity of MOR, KOR and DOR, let alone NOP. So a training set was employed to differentiate the two.

Obviously animal models tell us little and I for one would be looking for cardiotoxicity especially since methadone and various analogues demonstrate that issue. ORLAAM was seen as a huge breaktrhrough until morbidity was calculated. But IF like ORLAAM patients only need consume the medication three times per week, that combined with the potency MAY represent a possible solution. I am aware of the Chinese developed compounds such as thienorphine and TH-030418, but I assume they are both patented and I KNOW the synthesis isn't simple.

But getting back to freebase cocaine, I was surprised to learn that methods that avoided dangerous solvents were known as long ago as the 1960s. I've noted that the DEA now defines 'crack' as being made using baking soda OR ammonia solution. It's hard to know if the ammonia method was sort of introduced within certain circles (large scale importers who wanted to test the purity of the product) but did not reach down to retailers.

I noted something that may just be location specific but several crack users mentioned that IF Spice (or whateverthehellitis) was available, they chose the Spice. Seems so odd given how different the action seems to be but I did listen. They all repeated the statement several times. Can anyone say if this more generally true or if this is location specific?

So you mentioned crack users who chose to use Spice rather than smoking crack? I have been around for 25 years and I have never heard that theory.

 

[Halif2]

You feel like it's not real the first few times you see docs really act in completely unsympathetic, selfish, incompetent ways.

I've felt that too. It's kind of surreal and a horrible feeling of helplessness when you're in a hospital with a family member in a life or death situation, and you get a doctor (or doctors) who are not only completely indifferent to the situation but even callous. There's a sense that "this can't be happening", because the big hospital with all the doctors in it is supposed to be the best possible place to take someone who's at real risk of dying right then and there. And then you get someone who is uninformed or misinformed, seemingly no longer sees patients as human beings, and has apparently used up their lifetime's supply of tact.

I think there's a trust or faith in the societal system which gets permanently broken in that situation. I've never been able to be completely honest about my own situation with any healthcare professional after that time. I feel that I have to be responsible for myself until the end, and I've come to accept it. It's family and friends' health and lives that I'm worried about.

 

[4DQSAR]

So you mentioned crack users who chose to use Spice rather than smoking crack? I have been around for 25 years and I have never heard that theory.

I said it came as a total surprise to me. Since then I've heard it from others. I assumed that the subjective effects would be so different, it made no sense. But then I reflected on the fact that these users were typically buying £5 doses so who knows what they were really taking?

Nitche behaviors aren't that uncommon and while I know two knew each other, the other two were from a totally different circle. But it's entirely possible it is just here...

 

[anthonyleealexanderdunlap]

Me and a friend have shotgunned our hits to one another. Holding it for a shorter time before exhaling it into the other person's mouth has definitely had more of an effect than holding it for longer. How do you explain that?

 

[Loquacious]

@Stassi202 - I am out-of-the loop but long, long ago a friend asked me to slip a sample into a set of compounds we were sending off for instumental analysis. I was assured that the compound was not legally controlled (either explicitly or implicity). It turned out (based on NMR and GC-MS data) to be essentally pure phenacetin which was a paracetamol (acetaminophen) prodrug that had been taken off the market decades before due to toxicity. I had NO idea why on earth someone would wish to know.

Turns out people were selling it as 'Turbo Mix' or 'Super Mix' and although I have no idea what the official usage was stated to be, but I was then told that it was a cut used to bulk out crack cocaine.

Sorry if this is old news but I figure it's better to tell someone twice than to assume they know and as a result suffer avoidable harm. I seem to recall reading the physical data on phenacetin and it sort of made sense. But how on earth it was mixed in, I really have no idea.

Every dark corner of dutch smartshops had huge jars of this with garbage bags full off prefolded snow-seals. The dealers dont even cut the coke, they just 50/50 it when making bags, scoop of pure, score of super.

Iirc it was mannitol, phenacetin, caffeine and boric acid.


Did you know that in nl procaine labs have been popping up, basicall Making really good looking fake crack they can fuse together with real crack.

 

[Chaurus]

Me and a friend have shotgunned our hits to one another. Holding it for a shorter time before exhaling it into the other person's mouth has definitely had more of an effect than holding it for longer. How do you explain that?

Date and I did that too, with base.

I think it might be that between the two of you less is lost because the other partner does absorb the crack/base, but then your lungs are temporarily somewhat freed from the smoke so they can reabsorb more a little later, unlike when a single person keeps the pressurized smoke in.

Was actually my idea. I'd shotgunned for the first time during a meth date with someone else.

It did work, although exhaling into a condom (you know one of those things you're supposed to use for safe sex) and then re-inhaling was good too. I felt my (recurring) partner had enjoyed it, but likely considered it too intimate the second time around.

It was like overpowering him. I used to play waterpolo and my lungs are still somewhat capable. In all fairness, it was the base he had purchased (but I make sure I always have some money to pay when I do drugs I didn't myself bring).

 

[4DQSAR]

@Loquacious - Oh, I KNOW how close to the law many Dutch smart shops are prepared to go. I used to know many of the staff and one of the owners of Kokopelli (in fact they had 5 or 6 shops but I only knew the one on Warmoesstraat) and if I ever mentioned my belief that the law had changed, they would say 'stop there' i.e. they didn't want to KNOW. I am prepared to bet you £1 that their lawyers had told them that ignorance was some sort of defence.

I think this was just phenacetin... but this was also 25 years ago. But I am not even SLIGHTLY surprised that they would find a new grey market to sell to.

Procaine you say? Well, if they are actually making it to sell as a cut for crack, that para amino isn't needed and in fact the para chloro homologue is more potent BUT isn't very water-soluble... which I suggest isn't an issue if it's intended as a cut for crack (removing the -NH2 lowers MP). I bet it isn't too healthy, but we played with homologues of procaine to understand the QSAR of the stimulant activity. Interesting how knowledge can be lost. But in this case, I'm sort of glad it was because even back then people vaped it and said it was like crack (but longer acting) and we just did NOT wish to be part of that world.

Do they still sell 'Snow White' for cleaning cocaine? Because I remember that being on sale.

I admit the area around that shop WAS dubious - being so close to 'de drie bruggen' whose names I'm sure you know. Back then I never felt in danger but knew I had to keep my eyes and ears open. But people tell me it's got a bit more dodgy.

 

[Chaurus]

@4DQSAR, I've been going out in Warmoesstraat since I guess 1999 and sketchy folks have always been around there, but I rarely bought hard drugs at that time.

At the Cockring gay discotheque it was obvious a couple of the folks who worked there were on coke. I was at the legendary -sadly now closed- Argos bar across the street when the police told us to go inside the bar so they could raid and arrest the men of the Cockring. Some folks said it was because of crystal meth, which was barely known in The Netherlands at that time, but some gay folks say so many things... they're worse than some women!

The time before last time my German-Tunesian friend was in Amsterdam there were addicts in front of the Beurs van Berlage and he convinced me to buy whatever the dealer was selling as he was a Maghrebian too. It was some brown stuff that we drank in soda and barely stimulated.

What could it have been? A cathinone? If it was heroin it was much too weak.

Speculation is against the rules, but the mind wanders.

This December we were staying in the same area and although addicts were still in and around the Warmoesstraat, this particular scene had disappeared.

 

[Loquacious]

@Loquacious - Oh, I KNOW how close to the law many Dutch smart shops are prepared to go. I used to know many of the staff and one of the owners of Kokopelli (in fact they had 5 or 6 shops but I only knew the one on Warmoesstraat) and if I ever mentioned my belief that the law had changed, they would say 'stop there' i.e. they didn't want to KNOW. I am prepared to bet you £1 that their lawyers had told them that ignorance was some sort of defence.

I think this was just phenacetin... but this was also 25 years ago. But I am not even SLIGHTLY surprised that they would find a new grey market to sell to.

Procaine you say? Well, if they are actually making it to sell as a cut for crack, that para amino isn't needed and in fact the para chloro homologue is more potent BUT isn't very water-soluble... which I suggest isn't an issue if it's intended as a cut for crack (removing the -NH2 lowers MP). I bet it isn't too healthy, but we played with homologues of procaine to understand the QSAR of the stimulant activity. Interesting how knowledge can be lost. But in this case, I'm sort of glad it was because even back then people vaped it and said it was like crack (but longer acting) and we just did NOT wish to be part of that world.

Do they still sell 'Snow White' for cleaning cocaine? Because I remember that being on sale.

I admit the area around that shop WAS dubious - being so close to 'de drie bruggen' whose names I'm sure you know. Back then I never felt in danger but knew I had to keep my eyes and ears open. But people tell me it's got a bit more dodgy.

I have never heard of snow white but i dont really hang out w the crack crowd and some stuff is held out of sight.
.
Yeah it is procaine

Politie slaat alarm over illegale labs voor maken procaïne: ‘In schuur, loods en zelfs woonkamer’

De opkomst van illegale laboratoria voor het maken van procaïne is een ‘Rotterdams feestje’. Criminelen uit die regio hebben zich gestort op de gevaarlijke productie van dit versnijdingsmiddel voor cocaïne in schuurtjes, loodsen en woningen. De risico’s zijn groot: ,,Een kleine ruimte staat al...

www.ad.nl

https://www.l1nieuws.nl/amp/nieuws/2962294/celstraffen-voor-mannen-achter-procainelab-in-meerssen

It seems like it’s getting popular…

 

[generation lsd25]

Is cocaine different than DMT? And if so in what ways? What about 5meonndmt? I think thc smoking is a bad example.

 

[reddriddinghoodd]

It’s Science, people!!!
How many times have you heard:
"HOLD IT IN as long as you can!"
or
"WTF, you just exhaled—you wasted it!"

And I’m over here thinking…
Wait a minute. I'm a f***ing science genius, and something ain't adding up. So I looked into it. Turns out, when you smoke crack, the drug gets absorbed into your lungs super fast. Like, within seconds. The alveoli (those tiny air sacs in your lungs) do their job almost instantly.

You could hold that smoke in for 10 minutes, it won’t make you higher. It just makes your lungs hate you more. The “rush” isn’t about how long you hold your breath. It’s about how fast the cocaine hits your brain usually 8–10 seconds after inhaling. That’s it. Mission complete. Holding it in longer? You’re just inhaling extra carbon monoxide, tar, and toxic garbage. Congrats, you didn’t get more high, you just got more lung damage. So no, bro, I didn’t “waste it.” My lungs just aren’t trying to file a restraining order.

MYTH: Busted.
Science wins. Stay safe. Stay smart. Don’t fall for street logic.

Correct
I jut hold my breathe because almost passing out just adds to my high