Harm Reduction Harm reduction question about managing sleep while on daily amphetamine sulfate (speed)

[hexline]

Hi everyone,


I’m posting here from a harm-reduction angle because I’d really like to understand how people who use amphetamine sulfate (speed) on a daily or near-daily basis manage the practical side of sleep.


I’m not looking for encouragement to increase use or unsafe combinations — just trying to understand how others handle the “daily life logistics” part, especially regarding sleep and winding down.


My questions are:


• For people who use amphetamine sulfate regularly, what protocol or routine do you follow to be able to sleep at night?
• Is there a specific cut-off time in the day after which you stop using so the stimulant wears off enough to let you rest?
• What strategies or substances (prescription or otherwise) have you found compatible with stimulant comedowns without killing the effects the next day or causing dangerous interactions?


My personal situation:
I have zolpidem (Ambien/Stilnox) and similar Z-drugs available (zopiclone, zaleplon), but for me they’re usually not strong enough after a day of stimulant use. I recently tried flurazepam hydrochloride, which did help me sleep, but its very long half-life leaves a strong residual effect and noticeably reduces the positive effects of amphetamine the next day. So I’m looking for harm-reduction-oriented experiences from people who have found a workable balance.


Again, I’m only asking from a harm-reduction perspective:
What do people in this community actually do to manage this situation safely and realistically?


Thanks in advance to anyone willing to share their experience.

 

[Vastness]

Lol... basically I didn't. I mean I tried, don't get me wrong. But I still ended up just skipping nights of sleep every now and then, gradually gradually eroding my mental health and racking up sleep debt even when I did manage to sleep most of the time. My conclusion is that amphetamines are just not sustainable long term. I appreciate that's not really an answer though, obviously there are some things you can do to help yourself... Pharmacologically I found eszopiclone to be the only really effective Z-drug, although benzos can work for sure, zolpidem should work in most cases, but they're all either too fun in their own right as well as being disinhibiting so that a lot of the time for me there was too much temptation to stay awake. Eszopiclone is just kinda shit but still quite an effective hypnotic IME/IMO, BUT in retrospect I'd say there may still have been a touch of next-day grogginess possible but it was workable for a short time for me.

The cut off time for redosing probably is like 2 PM or something really if you wanna get to sleep at like 10 PM ish or roundabout there... but since taking a long 6 month break and very very occasionally trying very very small doses of amphetamine again I've found that actually I think total dosage might be more important than how late you dose in a lot of cases, because taking <10-15mg / day I've sometimes doses 5mg at like 7 PM and still gone to sleep at like midnight or thereabouts, but once the dose gets to about ~20mg you're just in for a bad time with no other drugs and if you haven't basically planned your entire day around making sure you'll be able to sleep properly. This is with very occasional use though, once you get to the point of daily dosing this metric is much less reliable and there's a point where you might struggle to sleep even with a single 10mg dose in the morning, I found. Actually I just looked up the half-life of amphetamine and this correlates, 9-11 hours, I know that half-life doesn't correlate perfectly or at all to duration of effect in all cases but in my case, I mean, there's a point where it just feels like it's always somewhat in your system and somewhat interfering with every other activity you might wanna do.

Beyond that, though... I'm sure the same frustratingly cliche but undeniably effective things that lead to better sleep for anyone apply equally to people taking amphetamine every day. Regular exercise, balanced diet, no screens for 1 or 2 hours before bed... do all the stuff you gotta do earlier in the day so you have some time to properly wind down in the evening before you go to sleep. I'm sure I did this sometimes and I'm sure it was effective sometimes but generally for me amphetamines are a hard enough stimulant that they hijack enough of my brain that I just can no longer make effective decisions about this kinda stuff, I was never able to stick to a regular exercise schedule during the years I was taking amphetamine every day, let alone, tbh, any other kind of schedule. And the longer it goes on, the harder it becomes, because the more dependent you are on amphetamine the harsher the grinding fade when the acute affects start to wear off after 3 or 4 hours but you still got at least twice that time being lightly wired, and a lot of day left to lose the battle with your own mind about just taking a little more to "make better use of your evening" or some such nonsense...

Oh, no doubt it probably helps a lot not to do any other stimulants, including caffeine - but again somehow amphetamines just destroy my will and ability to make and execute decisions, because although I am, admittedly, fairly addicted to caffeine right now, I was somehow even MORE addicted to caffeine while I was taking speed every day.

This doesn't seem to be everyone's experience... I dunno if I'm especially sensitive or what, because mind you I was taking prescribed dexamphetamine so although the dose was in retrospect heavier than sensible just about the cleanest version of amphetamine possible to get. Before this I also took armodafinil on and off more days than not for a good few years but in that time was able to keep a regular sleep schedule, exercise schedule, and generally just keep it together far better than I ever was while taking amphetamine, and I do experience definite stimulation from armodafinil (not everyone does, there's an important genetic variance in subjective effects), so for me either it's specifically about the "hardness" of the stimulant or something else neurological, I dunno, I'd like to know though, why some people seem to not experience such extreme negatives even after taking heavier doses than I was of harder analogs that I was every day for longer than I was... so, also curious to hear what other people might contribute.

 

[KurtAurelius]

Get up Early (5-6am)

Take only a redose sufficient where all effects dissipate by 10pm

Calculate using half-life for theory and then personal tolerance.

Take orally, and take reasonable amounts. Difficult to do with non pharma amphetamine where it’s a guessing game and also cut with caffeine but try titrate by let’s say half a point to a point (50-100mg) unless you have got very clean stuff you’ve washed then instead do a quarter to a half of a point (25-50mg)

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

It's just not sustainable but first action would be to switch to dexamphetamine

Then don't take it daily - just use on days when you truly need the extra focus and/or energy. Take as low a dose as possible, eat normally and hydrate very well

 

[hexline]

Lol... basically I didn't. I mean I tried, don't get me wrong. But I still ended up just skipping nights of sleep every now and then, gradually gradually eroding my mental health and racking up sleep debt even when I did manage to sleep most of the time. My conclusion is that amphetamines are just not sustainable long term. I appreciate that's not really an answer though, obviously there are some things you can do to help yourself... Pharmacologically I found eszopiclone to be the only really effective Z-drug, although benzos can work for sure, zolpidem should work in most cases, but they're all either too fun in their own right as well as being disinhibiting so that a lot of the time for me there was too much temptation to stay awake. Eszopiclone is just kinda shit but still quite an effective hypnotic IME/IMO, BUT in retrospect I'd say there may still have been a touch of next-day grogginess possible but it was workable for a short time for me.

The cut off time for redosing probably is like 2 PM or something really if you wanna get to sleep at like 10 PM ish or roundabout there... but since taking a long 6 month break and very very occasionally trying very very small doses of amphetamine again I've found that actually I think total dosage might be more important than how late you dose in a lot of cases, because taking <10-15mg / day I've sometimes doses 5mg at like 7 PM and still gone to sleep at like midnight or thereabouts, but once the dose gets to about ~20mg you're just in for a bad time with no other drugs and if you haven't basically planned your entire day around making sure you'll be able to sleep properly. This is with very occasional use though, once you get to the point of daily dosing this metric is much less reliable and there's a point where you might struggle to sleep even with a single 10mg dose in the morning, I found. Actually I just looked up the half-life of amphetamine and this correlates, 9-11 hours, I know that half-life doesn't correlate perfectly or at all to duration of effect in all cases but in my case, I mean, there's a point where it just feels like it's always somewhat in your system and somewhat interfering with every other activity you might wanna do.

Beyond that, though... I'm sure the same frustratingly cliche but undeniably effective things that lead to better sleep for anyone apply equally to people taking amphetamine every day. Regular exercise, balanced diet, no screens for 1 or 2 hours before bed... do all the stuff you gotta do earlier in the day so you have some time to properly wind down in the evening before you go to sleep. I'm sure I did this sometimes and I'm sure it was effective sometimes but generally for me amphetamines are a hard enough stimulant that they hijack enough of my brain that I just can no longer make effective decisions about this kinda stuff, I was never able to stick to a regular exercise schedule during the years I was taking amphetamine every day, let alone, tbh, any other kind of schedule. And the longer it goes on, the harder it becomes, because the more dependent you are on amphetamine the harsher the grinding fade when the acute affects start to wear off after 3 or 4 hours but you still got at least twice that time being lightly wired, and a lot of day left to lose the battle with your own mind about just taking a little more to "make better use of your evening" or some such nonsense...

Oh, no doubt it probably helps a lot not to do any other stimulants, including caffeine - but again somehow amphetamines just destroy my will and ability to make and execute decisions, because although I am, admittedly, fairly addicted to caffeine right now, I was somehow even MORE addicted to caffeine while I was taking speed every day.

This doesn't seem to be everyone's experience... I dunno if I'm especially sensitive or what, because mind you I was taking prescribed dexamphetamine so although the dose was in retrospect heavier than sensible just about the cleanest version of amphetamine possible to get. Before this I also took armodafinil on and off more days than not for a good few years but in that time was able to keep a regular sleep schedule, exercise schedule, and generally just keep it together far better than I ever was while taking amphetamine, and I do experience definite stimulation from armodafinil (not everyone does, there's an important genetic variance in subjective effects), so for me either it's specifically about the "hardness" of the stimulant or something else neurological, I dunno, I'd like to know though, why some people seem to not experience such extreme negatives even after taking heavier doses than I was of harder analogs that I was every day for longer than I was... so, also curious to hear what other people might contribute.

Get up Early (5-6am)

Take only a redose sufficient where all effects dissipate by 10pm

Calculate using half-life for theory and then personal tolerance.

Take orally, and take reasonable amounts. Difficult to do with non pharma amphetamine where it’s a guessing game and also cut with caffeine but try titrate by let’s say half a point to a point (50-100mg) unless you have got very clean stuff you’ve washed then instead do a quarter to a half of a point (25-50mg)

It's just not sustainable but first action would be to switch to dexamphetamine

Then don't take it daily - just use on days when you truly need the extra focus and/or energy. Take as low a dose as possible, eat normally and hydrate very well

Thank you all so much for your replies. You’re absolutely right, of course. I’ve been trying to find a solution to something in a somewhat desperate way. I was addicted to amphetamines for many years, and I managed to quit, get healthy again, get strong again… but after about three years or so—more or less—recently I realized that I still haven’t recovered the motivation and drive I used to feel for life and for my projects before becoming addicted, and definitely not the energy and “push” you have while using.


At that point I fell into the typical addict’s self-deception: after discovering certain hypnotic medications, I convinced myself that I could just take a bit during the day to get that punch and then sleep later. That was a mistake on my part.


Again, thank you all so much for your messages and your opinions. It really means a lot.

 

[Leprechaun]

Just don’t dose after midday. Never had an issue not sleeping on Amphetamine. Methamphetamine on the other hand, increased my to sleep time from 10 minutes to 1.5hrs, when I dosed before 10am…

If I ever dosed after 10am, say at 1pm, sleep usually took 2-3 hrs to arrive.

 

[xXTheGrimOneXx]

Yeah. Doses earlier in the day. Properly hydrating, cannot stress this enough. Eat something. If you can’t eat. Get protien shakes and vitamins.

Do not binge. It’ll just shoot your tolerance up and you’ll be phasing a high you can’t achieve because 1 your dopamine receptors have shut down. Then 2 your dopamine depleting your body.

After loosing insurance and my vyvanse going to
Over 400usd for a month supply.

I sourced some good d isomer shards. Unsure if it’s from
The synth Or resolution of the isomers with tartric acid and flipping the l iso to d iso.

30ish mg through snuff bullet. Is all I need.

The clean d isomer shards are indistinguishable between adderall/vyvanse. Until it comes to
Duration of effect and half life’s.

I religiously wash every bag I get. Only from supplier.

Anhydrous acetone int powdered meth. Glass funnel and filter paper. 10-20ml of ice cold ahyhdrous acetone, store it up on the filter. The. Repeat until im satisfied with the wash. Weigh before and afterwards gives ya an idea of how much shit is in your bags.

Allow the acetone to evaporate fully.

Then pull up a pot of water on the stove, place a shallow Pyrex dish in the water.

Methanol works better and evaporates faster than ethanol or isopropyl alcohol.

The yellow bottle of HEET fuel de ice is 100% methanol.

Bring this to a boil in the Pyrex dish in the pot of hot water. I use around 30ml to dissolve an 8.

If you have stuff not dissolve add 2or 3 ml more methanol. If that doesn’t dissolve it while hot. It’s not meth.

Heat until a film forms on the top of the methanol. Then drop by drop add methanol until the film goes away. Filter any solids out of the methanol meth solution that is now supersaturated.
Put the solution back onto
The warm water in the pot with no heat. No more heat.

The slower you cool and evaporate the methanol. The bigger and more pure your shard will be.

Don’t allow all The methanol to evap. Decant just the last little bit and save it for your next batch.

It’s imperative to allow your shard to
Fully dry.

If your bag is unresolved racemic meth meaning it has near proportional amounts of both L and D isomers of meth. You want the D Isomer. That’s the good one.

Read somewhere the L isomer can cause you to feel over amped. And tweaking out. Also heard that’s the N-iso cut too. Even read it’s a combination of
Racemic isomers and the cuts.

Who knows.

Tartric acid can separate the isomer and and allow you to
Shift L to D.

 

[xXTheGrimOneXx]

Washed bags are way more enjoyable less edgy and smoother.

Also prescribed 800mg of seroquel and up to 3mg of klonopin or generic is clonazepam. Im
Sleeping if I take that no matter what.

Read seroquel helps with meth and the neurotoxic effects from amphetamines especially methyl amphetamines.