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The more free will we think we have, the more we behave as if we have free will

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soulless_curiousity

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Something said by a professor of mine during a psychology class.

She's not my favorite teacher in the world. She tends to speak too definitely about stuff we can't know for sure.

But I've struggled a lot with the concept of free will. Often I feel like my actions are just genetics + environment + attitude.
Of that I can only really control my attitude.

So does believing in free will actually grant it?

Or is it's illusion just another factor that governs our behavior for us?
 
soulless_curiousity said:
So does believing in free will actually grant it?

Or is it's illusion just another factor that governs our behavior for us?
Click to expand...

I don't think that it grants it, likely just changes our attitude like you were saying.

Ive most of my life thought we all have free will, but I'm starting to realize how little of the "rules to the game" we really know.
 
Free will is governed by circumstances, we usually have a choice of action regarding the situation, however, our choices are limited by our imagination. Age and experience gives you an understanding how the choices and decisions you made overtime directed you to where you are now. Is there such a thing as destiny?
I think to a point we are hardwired to seek the person and lifestyle we are meant to be, this raises the question about an all seeing and knowing god. I believe humans are fairly predictable in terms of the choices we make and if this is true forces beyond our understanding may have the ability to predict our future. To a degree I believe humans have a sense of freewill however predictable it may be.
 
soulless_curiousity said:
Or is it's illusion just another factor that governs our behavior for us?
Click to expand...
Large question. The topic of free will spins my head too. We for sure have free will on what we think and what we do. The doing part can be limited by natural or man made laws. We usually follow Love in our actions. Examples are we find partners we love, we find the job we think we love and the house we think we love, people that have children want to love and guide. Yet though all that we are trapped in a bone suit. (the guy from Grandfunk Railroad calls it that). we can't fly and we can't change some situations. Others we can, and I know I try and follow my heart in the situations I can change.

streaM Freak said:
Ive most of my life thought we all have free will, but I'm starting to realize how little of the "rules to the game" we really know..
Click to expand...
There are man made rules and natural rules. Both limit us. The man made ones that try and control us are an illusion on the side that wants the power. Man made law, that "marijuana" was made illegal did nothing for the people that wanted to smoke. It was around for them. However, Natural law that gravity will pull you down, not much free will there unless you get a flying device. You can't give gravity the finger like we can man made laws.

M!$TER-ED said:
Free will is governed by circumstances, we usually have a choice of action regarding the situation, however, our choices are limited by our imagination.
Click to expand...
I was just reading in a book about the guy that handled the Grateful Dead equipment and made sure it was in place when needed. So the guy parked a few trucks in a wrong spot, a police man says who is in charge here? And Steve Parish said the situation is in charge. And I do believe that is true a lot of the time. If a person has a flat tire, you are not in charge of that, but have to take charge in fixing it. Yeah where does free will come into play there?

It does seem we are trapped in a limited set of circumstances for a time. Free will in some areas and just totally trapped in other areas. But i can see clearly when I make choices I do it out of love in getting the best set of circumstances. We do pick our partners, homes, and employment.......sometimes. That can change with areas around the world or even just more limited set of circumstances.
 
JackARoe said:
Large question. The topic of free will spins my head too. We for sure have free will on what we think and what we do. The doing part can be limited by natural or man made laws. We usually follow Love in our actions. Examples are we find partners we love, we find the job we think we love and the house we think we love, people that have children want to love and guide. Yet though all that we are trapped in a bone suit. (the guy from Grandfunk Railroad calls it that). we can't fly and we can't change some situations. Others we can, and I know I try and follow my heart in the situations I can change.


There are man made rules and natural rules. Both limit us. The man made ones that try and control us are an illusion on the side that wants the power. Man made law, that "marijuana" was made illegal did nothing for the people that wanted to smoke. It was around for them. However, Natural law that gravity will pull you down, not much free will there unless you get a flying device. You can't give gravity the finger like we can man made laws.


I was just reading in a book about the guy that handled the Grateful Dead equipment and made sure it was in place when needed. So the guy parked a few trucks in a wrong spot, a police man says who is in charge here? And Steve Parish said the situation is in charge. And I do believe that is true a lot of the time. If a person has a flat tire, you are not in charge of that, but have to take charge in fixing it. Yeah where does free will come into play there?

It does seem we are trapped in a limited set of circumstances for a time. Free will in some areas and just totally trapped in other areas. But i can see clearly when I make choices I do it out of love in getting the best set of circumstances. We do pick our partners, homes, and employment.......sometimes. That can change with areas around the world or even just more limited set of circumstances.
Click to expand...
I really like your answer, particularly concerning the constraints of a situation. I think that's truly what controls decision making. we learn associations from a young age on what can and can't happen and those rules are applied later to guide behaviors

there has been evidence showing that we make decisions before we are aware of them and awareness seems to be post-processing which can also influence future behaviors but that postprocessing shouldn't be considered free will because it depends on the previous state

www.nature.com

Learning produces an orthogonalized state machine in the hippocampus - Nature

Insight into the algorithmic form and learning principles underlying cognitive maps in the hippocampus is provided.
www.nature.com www.nature.com
 
If we have free thoughts why don't we have freewill? Freewill is an action verb, do we not think and act upon our thoughts?
 
I believe we are born with free will, but the majority of people trade that in for the comfort and ease of aligning ourselves with the concepts and actions of "convention with others". It is a lot of work to maintain free will and most people don't value their own free will and simply go with the flow of the "prevailing ideas " that are held at the time they are alive.

In essence, they have become comfortably numb.
 
We are creators but why are we not allowed to have a say in the outcome of our choices?! Maybe things are predetermined.

Earworms always move in the same direction they started. An inertia I guess. But once you train them to control their direction they aren't so scary.


You have free will to think and make decisions...that is what free will means ?

The Golden rule is Free will!

Just Food for Thought.


To choose and have choices. haahaha.

bye
 
Cheshire_Kat said:
I believe we are born with free will, but the majority of people trade that in for the comfort and ease of aligning ourselves with the concepts and actions of "convention with others". It is a lot of work to maintain free will and most people don't value their own free will and simply go with the flow of the "prevailing ideas " that are held at the time they are alive.

In essence, they have become comfortably numb.
Click to expand...
QFT.
 
In The West hardly anyone has Free Will & it's nearly impossible to do it.

We are under such heavy social conditioning from birth it's wired into our brain to act in ways that don't let us be free, I have said before about my Aghori "Guru" who's also English & was born a few miles up the road from me, one of the things Ram Datta Ram Aghori made him do when in India to set him free was to walk around naked for 6 months, this was just 1 simple exercise to break his mind free of "body image" & Ego in the way of his looks & body, you cannot walk around naked & in the case of some Naga & Aghori be covered in the ash of dead people.

On The Leary 8 Circuit Neurological model we are talking here about The Emotional-Territorial Circuit & The Rational-Symbolic Circuit, the work that would need to be done in The USaA, UK, Europe & what we call "The West" would have you locked up in Jail for years if you ever tried to break down these mind-traps.
 
Well the big question is: 'If we had free will what would we do with it?'

So if you can do what you want you have free will basically taken as a proof.

But when you have a thought such as: 'Why can't I do something?'
Then you realize you are unfree.

For example.. I want to fly right now out of my house and teleport to another planet.. That is not possible.. Yet, at least..

Maybe with technology we can solve the problem of free will to be able to do truly whatever we want.
 
Brendan12 said:
Well the big question is: 'If we had free will what would we do with it?'

So if you can do what you want you have free will basically taken as a proof.

But when you have a thought such as: 'Why can't I do something?'
Then you realize you are unfree.

For example.. I want to fly right now out of my house and teleport to another planet.. That is not possible.. Yet, at least..

Maybe with technology we can solve the problem of free will to be able to do truly whatever we want.
Click to expand...
why do people want to do things? where does that feeling of want come from?
 
There is novelty because of the curious nature of consciousness...

The idea that we watch something grow.. means things change..
 
Our lives are a mix of determinism and free will. Biopsychosocial factors deeply shape and affect who we are. When I meet my older, more distant relatives who knew my grandfather, they say my mannerisms are very much like his. It's endearing to them. So while I believe my disposition is informed by my life experiences, I think my reaction to those experiences and the resulting attitudes and values may be informed by some inborn qualities as well.

This is all to say, I think we co-create with determinism. We have hard-bound limits set by nature, but we are not just those limits. We have the freedom to choose within the design. Kind of like playing a computer game. The game world has boundaries and limits, otherwise there could be no game; but within the game world there are so many possible choices that you could play the game over and over again and have a different experience set each time.

It seems that many "free will" types rebel against the idea of determinism, while deterministic people find free will too flippant. I think they are two sides of the same coin... another duality that could do with some cross-over.
 
free will does not exist because all behavior arises from the brain. choices are made based on previously encountered stimuli shaping the responses of neural circuits. there is no mechanism to override that
 
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