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EADD Benzo Discussion V. Waking up in a Wakefield skip

dan88 said:
Alright folks, hoping someone can help me.

I've been living in south east Asia for the last 8 years, were benzos are easily available OTC. After stopping smoking weed a few years qgo, I had awful anxiety, and turned to diazepam to help. And help it did, until I started using it daily.

Currently I'm taking 60mg a day, and considering a move back to the UK, but not so keen on bringing a shit load of a class c drug with me, and really want to get off the stuff.

I've tried tapering myself, but really find it impossible, when those pangs of anxiety hit, I just neck a 10mg or 2, and end up back at square one.

My question is, if I go and explain my situation to a doctor, would they put me on a taper, or just dismiss the problem. Really I need to quit a mg a week or something, but that is impossible to measure here, with the pills coming in 10mg and just one score line. I really do want to get free from this prison these pills have put me it.

TLDR: Will the NHS support a benzo taper, or dismiss me as a drug seeker
Click to expand...

GP will put a referral through to drug and alcohol services, or make you self refer. Then it’ll be marked on your record. That’ll mean you’ll be limited on what medications you’re given going forwards.
 
dan88 said:
Alright folks, hoping someone can help me.

I've been living in south east Asia for the last 8 years, were benzos are easily available OTC. After stopping smoking weed a few years qgo, I had awful anxiety, and turned to diazepam to help. And help it did, until I started using it daily.

Currently I'm taking 60mg a day, and considering a move back to the UK, but not so keen on bringing a shit load of a class c drug with me, and really want to get off the stuff.

I've tried tapering myself, but really find it impossible, when those pangs of anxiety hit, I just neck a 10mg or 2, and end up back at square one.

My question is, if I go and explain my situation to a doctor, would they put me on a taper, or just dismiss the problem. Really I need to quit a mg a week or something, but that is impossible to measure here, with the pills coming in 10mg and just one score line. I really do want to get free from this prison these pills have put me it.

TLDR: Will the NHS support a benzo taper, or dismiss me as a drug seeker
Click to expand...
In my experience when I went to a GP I got 14 x 5mg of diazepam to complete a previous taper. And I was lucky to get that. Often as not, you'll get nothing at all. It seems that I managed to relay things in an acceptable way to at least get something.

He was initially only going to give me 7 x 5mg.

This is nowhere near enough though! All evidence suggests that if you've had any sizeable habit for any period of years then any taper should be very gradual over many months, to stand the best chance of recovery, and to avoid brain injuries.

7 or 14 days to complete a benzo taper is just a joke. Looking back it definitely was not worth going to the GP, and getting that on my record, for ever.

And GPs seem either so badly informed, or don't care, or aren't allowed to prescribe ongoing scripts, so that you really are left to sort things out yourself in the vast majority of cases.

If you want or need to do it, you'll have to find some way of finding the will or motivation to do it yourself, for yourself.
 
Last time a GP spoke to me about sleep issues, she suggested antihistamines.

Only problem being that a psychiatrist had told me to avoid promethazine entirely because of QT interval problems!
 
Shit. Sounds like I better start tapering here first, anyone any advice how to go about it. I've read the Ashton manual, I guess weighing and crushing the pills, weighing them with a better scale than I've got, and dropping 1-2mg a week would be my best bet, at least to start with.

The problem is, constant anxiety and my job are not things that go well together
 
dan88 said:
The problem is, constant anxiety and my job are not things that go well together
Click to expand...
Yes, I have the exact same problem. I guess for myself I'll have to see how far I can get while holding down my job. If I either have to leave or go on sick leave for mental health reasons, or get dismissed then so be it.

I've done it before while holding down a job, and did not take sick leave, or get dismissed, and while it was really awful, I stuck at it (for some time.)

I will have to perform some kind of fairly rapid taper soon, as I'll be undergoing surgery under the general anaesthetic Propofol in the not too distant future.

A combination of propofol and benzos killed Michael Jackson. I don't know what doses he had taken of either. But I need to be off benzos for at least 2 - 3 days prior to surgery. Even then my GABA levels are still going to be totally fucked. My brain is going to be completely starved of GABA. So I'm very worried about the whole thing. I'm not sure if I'll be able to work the few days before surgery while I'm off benzos. The sudden / rapid absence might be too hard to deal with, on top of surgery being imminent in the next couple of days.

Hopefully work will be understanding.

My sickness record up until this point has been faultless.

And yes Ashton method all the way. Getting pure benzo powders (not crushed pills) and dissolving in Propylene Glycol is the ideal way for highly accurate dose measuring and reductions. But those powders are not easily available these days. You'd probably have to get on the DNMs to find those. Otherwise crush pills and weigh with the most accurate scales you can find.

Alternatively, there are methods using water, you'd have to look them up, as I've never used them. Storing benzos in water for long term is not good AFAIK, due to the risk of bacterial growth in still stored water. But there are also daily water dosing methods, but I cant remember the details.
 
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Shit mate, you have my sympathy . The thought of going even 24 hours without my blues sends shivers down my spine. Let alone having to consider surgery, and drug complications.

How much are you taking a day? Problem is, that over here, they don't have any sympathy for such things, don't work, don't get paid
 
I'm taking too much, although on my recent days off work I've started experimenting with how long I can go without. I'm probably still going on last night's benzos half lives, but today, on a day off, home alone, I have zero anxiety and zero cravings as of yet.

I have social anxiety rather than GAD and it is highly specific. I basically have no anxiety when I don't have to interact with anyone. But I've been leaning on benzos to smooth out those painfully awkward interactions.

I wont be able to sleep for shit for months without benzos though as you also become so dependent on them for that.

I'm going to mention all my worries about the general anaesthetic once its confirmed that I will need surgery. Like the dose of propofol potentially being too much or not enough etc, and can the surgery be done under local, and lighter sedatives etc.

I'm not going to mention my benzo use though, as that would mean my life changing ADHD medications would be stopped. As you're not allowed to be self medicating like I'm doing.

The further worry is that people are known to blurt things out under the influence of propofol, things that they would never normally say. And they have no recollection afterwards. I just hope to God I dont end up blurting out something about benzos, or everything will have been for nothing.

EDIT: FFS I caused myself an anxiety attack with that last thought, which probably happened at about the same time as most of last nights residual half lives had left my system, and I soon crumbled and took my first BZ of the day. A little while later and I can feel the soothing nature of that 10mg of diazepam working it's magic as it's spreads its way through my nervous system and brain.

I should have reminded myself of the Stoic Principle : He who suffers (or worries) before it is necessary, suffers more than necessary.

That simple mantra has helped me stop anxious thoughts or worries a number of times previously. Just the sheer truth, sense, and simplicity of the statement really works for me. I totally forgot about it on this occasion though :roll eyes: .
 
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Best of luck. I'm already past the point where talking about self-medication is a concern, but it's kind of expected with my diagnosis. I've even been prescribed dihydrocodeine and zopiclone (short term) since, so I guess I was trusted.

I have an appointment booked for Monday that I know nothing about, but I'll probably have to come clean about the methadone and the benzos as well as the booze. Which will be embarrassing, but I really don't have anything to lose. I was never going to get an oxy / dexamphetamine / temazepam script anyway.
 
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I think I was lucky that my medical record about benzo dependency was 10-15 years ago, and that it didnt say anything more than that, and as far as anyone knows I've not touched them since. And that was good enough for my ADHD meds via a private provider.

Although some GP has gone raking up my ancient history and bought old stuff like that back up to the top of my records for some reason. I'm going to politely query or challenge that as soon as I get chance.

He's just gone nuts talking about self harm and my substance use history for no reason at all, following a recent review. I never mentioned any such things, I have never self harmed, nor intended to, and I don't recall him even asking about it either.

So it seems completely out of order and totally unnecessary to me.
 
When you pitch up at the local practice a couple of stone underweight and covered in tracks, it's a bit difficult to hide things. That was me.

But that's just out of order. If you've been improving through the medication you've been prescribed then that's what matters. Or should matter.
 
dan88 said:
Alright folks, hoping someone can help me.

I've been living in south east Asia for the last 8 years, were benzos are easily available OTC. After stopping smoking weed a few years qgo, I had awful anxiety, and turned to diazepam to help. And help it did, until I started using it daily.

Currently I'm taking 60mg a day, and considering a move back to the UK, but not so keen on bringing a shit load of a class c drug with me, and really want to get off the stuff.

I've tried tapering myself, but really find it impossible, when those pangs of anxiety hit, I just neck a 10mg or 2, and end up back at square one.

My question is, if I go and explain my situation to a doctor, would they put me on a taper, or just dismiss the problem. Really I need to quit a mg a week or something, but that is impossible to measure here, with the pills coming in 10mg and just one score line. I really do want to get free from this prison these pills have put me it.

TLDR: Will the NHS support a benzo taper, or dismiss me as a drug seeker
Click to expand...

Surely you can just get a pill splitter? That will make it easy to split the pills into 2.5mg doses, maybe even 1.25

There's also volumetric dosing but I don't know if that works with benzos in pill form, maybe someone else can advise
 
GulpingBatteryLiquid said:
Surely you can just get a pill splitter? That will make it easy to split the pills into 2.5mg doses, maybe even 1.25

There's also volumetric dosing but I don't know if that works with benzos in pill form, maybe someone else can advise
Click to expand...
Agreed.

I just use loose stanley knife blades as I find them easier to work with and to get more accurate splits than pill splitters.

As @dan88 is on 60mg, especially at the early stages, it would be fine to quarter one of the 10mg pills, so that he would be down to 57.5 for his first drop, which shouldn't pose hardly any difficulties.

And then keep stepping down until he hits any issues, where obviously it's then time to stay on that dose for a while, until mind and body adjusts. Then give it a few more days, and step down again.

A lot depends on the urgency or any deadline.

If its been years at those kind of doses, it would be best done over several months.

When he gets down to his last 10mg, then he could look at getting 5mg or 2mg pills ideally, to make those final stages, which are the most difficult, as least painful as possible.

The only time I tried volumetric dosing with pills it was a disaster. I think it was crushed etizolam pills in PG, and they wouldn't dissolve at all. Might have been better in warm water, not sure.
 
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I currently have some quetiapine 200mg pills with deep score marks that can be easily split into four by hand. Why they exist (and don't just prescribe lower dose pills for those who need them - which they do) I don't know. But they'd be very useful for something like benzo withdrawal, if a little large as a whole.
 
Here they are. Sandoz.

158099-A01-01-BLCORE.jpg
 
A youtube psych who's said a lot of stuff I completely disagree with (just based on my own subjective experience admitedly) has done a tier list of the worst meds to w/d from.

@BadBoy377 He's put Mirtazapine as kind of middling, I can forsee extreme and prolonged insomnia for sure, but as it doesn't do much of anything else for me, besides help me sleep and develop a fat stomach, I cant see it causing many other w/d symptoms. Maybe a loss of appetite along with the insomnia of unknown duration.

But this is also the guy who thinks SSRIs are worse to w/d from than clonazepam etc. I really have trouble believing that is true.

And he has also done a "guide" about how to w/d from xanax, without even mentioning the most obvious first step - switch to diazepam first. for the longer duration, and meaning less / no need to dose several times a day.

It seems he only speaks from book knowledge and has no idea about the practicalities of going through these things.

That's probably a bit harsh, he's probably looked at some research. It's just some of the things he comes out with really annoy me.

He's probably / hopefully right about Mirtazapine though. It's an antihistimine but also a atypical tetracyclic antidepressant. Not too sure what that means is terms of w/d profile tbh.

He also uses brand names instead of the drug name, so at least for myself I have to translate many of the brand names, as obviously in the UK we use the drug name, not the brand.

 
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