Trigger Warning MDMA + Pyros (MDPIHP) .... is there any possible safe combination, or is that a guaranteed recipe for SS & disaster?

[Deleted member 585202]

To my brief knowledge, MDPHIP is incredibly potent at the dopamine transporter, but is relatively much less potent at the SERT serotonin transporter and norepinepherine transporter. But that added SERT activity worries me, and this shit is incredibly potent stimulant in general which worries me for my heart and mind if combined with MDMA. It is also notoriously psychotogenic in high or frequent doses, which I'm going to avoid... this stuff basically feels like a blend between crack, meth, and ritalin. It has the rush of crack, the legs and intensity of meth, and also is vaugely reminiscent of ritalin for some reason. Tastes like it. Also feels quite toxic and dangerous with heavy or long term use, which again, I'm going to avoid.

I'm not stupid, it will be low dose MDMA. I only have 87mg, and that's why I'm doing this to begin with, because that's not enough for a full roll and will be disappointing. Are lower doses less prone to multi-drug toxic SS syndrome?

Is this as stupid of an idea as I think it is?

How dangerous is cocaine + MDMA? I know some people get into that...

I have plenty of nifoxipam and quetiapine/risperidone on hand if I get too high, but no propranolol or anything for blood pressure.

Also, I would generally advise people to avoid this MDPHIP drug. It's evil. Incredibly fiendish. The high is almost as good as meth, slightly less body euphoria, but even MORE of a rush when smoked-- crack like. The euphoria falls off after about 4 hours but you continue to feel tweaked for a long time afterwards which kinda sucks, but in low doses this stim is extremely functional (if you can control yourself).

edit: Hmm, yeah I guess I'm wrong. This German paper claims MDPHIP has the ability to COMPLETELY inhibit SERT, although it is still relatively much weaker at it than DAT.

"The study showed that MDPiHP has the capacity to completely inhibit DAT, NET and SERT. The concentration that resulted in 50% of maximal inhibition (IC50) was also determined and is a measure of potency. MDPiHP showed the strongest inhibition of DAT (IC50 = 1.03 nM) followed by NET (IC50 = 27 nM). The inhibition of SERT was significantly weaker (IC50 = 776 nM). Cocaine is used as a control substance..."

Can anyone maybe enlighten me how potent of a SERT this drug is with that IC50 = 776? The DAT IC50 is only 1.03...

Is that anything like affinity numbers?

Where my scientist and expert drug nerds at?

(sorry for cross posting, just looking for multiple and/or quick answers. I will delete the empty threads.

 

[Leprechaun]

Independent of the ICT values, both MDPihP and MDMA are sympathomimetics. They will both elevate your heart rate and blood pressure.

You’re more likely to experience simply a discomfort due to cardiovascular overstimulation.

Unless you maybe preload on a Barbiturate like phenobarbital?

Still, so many more interesting and safer options. Why risk it?

If by chance your blood pressure explodes you’re likely to be very uncomfortable and risk having a stroke . Doesn’t sound productive or interesting…

 

[MidnightDevil]

Is there a reason for that combo? WHy not just the MDPihP ? Genuine question

 

[SotPoker1012]

As others pointed out, it seems more likely to trigger cardiovascular complications or a panic attack from over stimulation than SS.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

Is there a reason for that combo? WHy not just the MDPihP ? Genuine question

As others pointed out, it seems more likely to trigger cardiovascular complications or a panic attack from over stimulation than SS.

yes, I explained in OP that the only reason I am even considering this is because I only have 87mg of MDMA, even though its high quality shit, that would be a very disappointing amount to take. It would piss me off. At the time I made the thread, I had a MASSIVE LSD tolerance (which is honestly my drug of choice).... my new tentative plan is to wait out the LSD tolerance then candy flip + add 12mg 2CB on top of the MDMA and 200ug LSD. That should be enough of a roll to satisfy me right?

I've come to the conclusion that the real risk of SS is probably relatively very low with only 87mg of MDMA. I haven't touched SSRIs for over a decade, the only serotonergic promoting substance I've been taking is high doses of ashwaganda. Which does significantly raise serotonin levels... but I am in the process of flushing that out of my sytem.

I am/was also taking suboxone, which is known to have the ability to contribute to Serotonin syndrome, but I also stopped taking that a few days ago with zero withdrawals because of the pyro euphoria giving me all the dopamine I really need.

In fact, having ZERO withdrawal symptoms from 16mg suboxone surprised me (zero tapering before stopping). If I can find a way to reduce the recklessness or potential dangers/adverse outcomes of using drugs like meth and MDPIHP for about 5 days to peacefully get through acute opioid withdrawals, I might actually look into that. But don't worry, I realize that is an incredibly dubious idea in general in terms of future addictions, polydrug toxicity and addiction, dangerous relapses, etc.

Once the initial euphoric rush wears off after 4 hours, you enter this state where you feel just as physically stimulated as when you started, but the calming and anxiolytic effect of the dopamine rush wears off, so it leaves you feeling fairly anxious (more like jumpy/fight or flight, not anxious thoughts), You feel it in your chest. However, this isn't the comedown yet which is unexpected. There is a 2-3 hour window where you feel overly stimulated, massive adrenaline and norephinerine, but you start feeling a little depressed, unmotived and slightly anxious after the first 3-4 hours because your dopamine crash -- it's not ANYWHERE near as bad as a coke, meth or MDMA crash, though. In fact this is the one reason where I would say this drug is inferior to meth, but just barely. Also meth has a much better body high and feels more entactogenic to me than this, even though some people are reporting extreme empathogenic / entactogenic effects from this drug MDPIPH, I haven't really experienced that yet... empathogenic and entactogenic feelings are much more noticeable on meth to me. My initial pseudoeducated guess is simply because METH has a higher activity on SERT.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

For any future degenerates who stumble on this thread:

Fuck no, do not combine these. MDPIHP is one hell of a fucked up drug. I spent 3 days with that demon. Beyond the fact that it obliterates your inhibition by also inhibiting glutamate (which makes redosing even harder to stop compared to other cathinones), it also seemingly has an active euphoria-less metabolite with a very long half life (24hr+ IME). This would make the MDMA comedown hellish. There would also be extreme dopamine cell loss. Seizures. Hyperthermia. Etc.

Just no. Even small doses of this stuff leads to neurotoxic situations, let alone in combination with another neurotoxic drug.

MDPIHP will get you higher than you've ever been in your life for 4 hours, but then the euphoria suddenly disappears and you're left with a shitty iso-meth like high for a whole day afterwards. Then a 3 day hangover. Certainly the most neurotoxic drug I've ever done.

 

[Skorpio]

One point I would like to raise is MDMA is a mechanistic inhibitor of CYP2D6, so it will massively potentiate drugs which are broken down in large part by that enzyme.

In harm reduction spaces, serotonin syndrome tends to be the biggest worry with mdma combos, for good reason, but I would certainly recommend caution when combining mdma with drugs that aren’t well known for making good combos.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

One point I would like to raise is MDMA is a mechanistic inhibitor of CYP2D6, so it will massively potentiate drugs which are broken down in large part by that enzyme.

In harm reduction spaces, serotonin syndrome tends to be the biggest worry with mdma combos, for good reason, but I would certainly recommend caution when combining mdma with drugs that aren’t well known for making good combos.

I agree, and if I didn't make it clear enough with my previous post, I do not think there is any level of "safe use" of MDPIHP. Even if there is a "reasonably safe dose" on paper (which I doubt), the risk of redosing into a extremely neurotoxic state is virtually guaranteed. Stick to meth or crack kiddos, which are both MUCH safer than MDPIHP, and for me, easier to control.

For all intents and purposes, MDPIHP should be placed in the lowest level of HR safety there is... virtually zero. I'm hoping this obvious brain damage I am feeling 4 days after my last dose can be remedied. I've never been so worried about my brain in over 25 years of hard drug use...

 

[Leprechaun]

I agree, and if I didn't make it clear enough with my previous post, I do not think there is any level of "safe use" of MDPIHP. Even if there is a "reasonably safe dose" on paper (which I doubt), the risk of redosing into a extremely neurotoxic state is virtually guaranteed. Stick to meth or crack kiddos, which are both MUCH safer than MDPIHP, and for me, easier to control.

For all intents and purposes, MDPIHP should be placed in the lowest level of HR safety there is... virtually zero. I'm hoping this obvious brain damage I am feeling 4 days after my last dose can be remedied. I've never been so worried about my brain in over 25 years of hard drug use...

What did you end up dosing the MDPiHP?

 

[Deleted member 585202]

What did you end up dosing the MDPiHP?

First day was fine. Maybe 120mg total over 24hr. Got some sleep. Woke up feeling completely fine, zero ill effects, which was a ruse. Second day maybe 200mg, but then I blacked out in a way. I really don't know in the end. I wasted a lot. I threw a chunk away. I would guess I used about 700mg over 3 days which is way too much.

My brain was severely fucked up for 3 days afterwards. It took me 5 days to feel normal again after that binge. Interestingly, I never really felt depressed after the comedown... mainly just had holes in my brain, moderate anxiety, the memory of a goldfish, and couldn't function for shit.

I can control my meth and crack use, stims have never been my DOC. But MD-X pyros seem to also lower inhibitions by dysregulating the glutamine/glutamate system. Thats what got me. It makes responsible use virtually impossible.

The neurotoxic effects of this drug are blatantly obvious, compared to something like meth or crack.

The typical "48hr" binge rule with stims does not apply with this one. It should never be used for more than 1 session or 12 hr at a time. No more than once per month. And multidrug toxicity is abnormally high.

I'm still having significant memory and concentration issues 6 days later. I suppose this might last a few weeks. It seems to improve daily.

Taking l-glutamine really helped a lot the first few days.

 

[Leprechaun]

First day was fine. Maybe 120mg total over 24hr. Got some sleep. Woke up feeling completely fine, zero ill effects, which was a ruse. Second day maybe 200mg, but then I blacked out in a way. I really don't know in the end. I wasted a lot. I threw a chunk away. I would guess I used about 700mg over 3 days which is way too much.

My brain was severely fucked up for 3 days afterwards. It took me 5 days to feel normal again after that binge. Interestingly, I never really felt depressed after the comedown... mainly just had holes in my brain, moderate anxiety, the memory of a goldfish, and couldn't function for shit.

I can control my meth and crack use, stims have never been my DOC. But MD-X pyros seem to also lower inhibitions by dysregulating the glutamine/glutamate system. Thats what got me. It makes responsible use virtually impossible.

The neurotoxic effects of this drug are blatantly obvious, compared to something like meth or crack.

The typical "48hr" binge rule with stims does not apply with this one. It should never be used for more than 1 session or 12 hr at a time. No more than once per month. And multidrug toxicity is abnormally high.

I'm still having significant memory and concentration issues 6 days later. I suppose this might last a few weeks. It seems to improve daily.

Taking l-glutamine really helped a lot the first few days.

The particular systems related to re-uptake inhibitions seem to be around the learning/reward pathways.

I find it quite fascinating! The fact you "want" something has really not much to do with "liking" it. On MDMA or say 2C-B, there's a pleasurable sense, a "liking" effect. Similar to MDA. However, there is not that much of "want" effect. You do want to continue the high, but not that much really, and you can easily stop if needed.

Whereas, something like 4-MMC, Meth-amphetamine or MDPVP, they trigger the "want" effect. So even if you feel terrible, you'll do it again and again. 4-MMC wasn't too bad, neither was meth-amphetamine. I have never tried MDPVP however.

I have been in a place with 4-MMC only once where I just didn't stop, this involved heavy alcohol use, which I believe makes the "want" effect far stronger, as there is little inhibition, you're more likely to just follow through when something like alcohol, or similar depressant (etizolam, alprazolam or GHB) is involved.

Stay safe friend, learn your boundaries and enjoy life!

Maybe time for some fresh air, hiking and exploring nature!

 

[Geishagifts]

4-mmc mdpihp combo is great, but gotta keep doses low and never redose mdpihp
Bomb 200mg 4-mmc, when you start to feel it, IN 30-40mg mdpihp. When the mdpihp euphoria starts to fade, IN 100mg 4-mmc.
Kill with benzos and trazadone when it turns nasty.