Ethnobotanicals Peru/high elevation and tripping on San Pedro?

[moonyham]

Hey everyone,

Currently travelling Peru and will be in the Cusco/Machu pichu area soon. The elevation is 3400m/11000ft above sea level. It isn't uncommon for people to get altitude sickness in their first days.

I am wondering if it would be a bad idea to do San Pedro at this kind of elevation? Assuming I am 2-3 days deep and feel OK and not suffering altitude sickness?

I have done San Pedro quite a few times although it's been probably 10+ years since I last did it. I remember it being quite stimulating, elevating my heart rate by 50% at resting if I had to hazard a guess. But I always did atleast 1ft worth of it and had proper full on trips not mild/low dosage trips so am not sure what the body load would be like.

The idea was to do it for the day me and friends go to Machu pichu. Not anything crazy in terms of dosage, maybe a 1/4 dose or so. Machu pichu is slightly lower than Cusco where we would have been for the first few days, but not drastically.

The increased heart rate + high altitude just made me pause for a moment and lead me to make this post.

Maybe I'm missing something else in the equation too. Obviously a medical emergency would be a nightmare in such an environment but I've never let that stop me haha, tripping in remote/hard to access areas isn't new to me.

Appreciate anyones thoughts on this.

Cheers.

 

[moonyham]

Nevermimd, did a bit of research and seems this would be a very bad idea and increase risk of all the bad shit that happens regarding altitude sickness(which can be deadly).

I won't be doing this and will just stick to the shaman buzz in a safe(r) environment.

Or maybe do mushrooms. Research indicates it may even help with oxygen deprivation, and from a physiological aspect is much safer/doesn't really have interactions with altitude in the way cacti would.

 

[iom]

Definitely don't do it if you are experiencing symptoms of altitude sickness. Otherwise I don't see a problem if you are physically fit. Be aware of your limitations. At that altitude, a leisurely stroll on its own can spike your heart rate, especially if you live at sea level. I once visited friends and tripped on 15 mg 2C-E at ~7500 ft while living at sea level and after having acclimated at ~5000 ft for a couple of days. It was a pretty strong dose and a pretty strong trip but nothing unexpected. I did do a lot of panting, which can happen on heavier trips but seemed amplified a bit by the altitude. Some people suggest that altitude may amplify the effects of psychedelics, but that was not my personal experience.

Definitely be mindful of the dose. Taking only 1/4 dose sounds fine, provided "one dose" isn't insanely strong or something. It's also possible your tolerance may be quite different now. My wife used to match me in psychedelic doses, but she tripped harder than me on 2/3s of the dose last time we had San Pedro.

BTW, I'm slightly jealous as an experience like that would have to be pretty amazing. Our last San Pedro trip was also in a place of ancient ruins, albeit closer to home. We definitely felt like we connected with the spirits of the place. It was very powerful.

 

[moonyham]

Thank you iom for the feedback. I think I will do San Pedro closer to sea level and later in my journey here when I'm down south, but mushrooms for Cusco/Machu pichu - just a small/medium dose. I've done them a lot in my life and consider myself highly experienced with them, whereas while I've done San Pedro quite a bit, I've done mushrooms hundreds of times - including much more recently.

I have never been to such altitude, I live at sea level and most of my home country is by the sea. I do snowboard and go to mountains for that but they don't ever get much more than 1500-2000m generally.

Weirdly I hadn't even thought to do this before arriving. But I got the opportunity to get mushrooms/cacti and suddenly started thinking of how amazing it would be to do in these ancient places.

Also I think the shorter duration is probably a more responsible choice in such an environment, just incase things do go south.

I'll be sure to procure some benzos too. Which fortunately from what I've read are relatively easy to get here.

 

[iom]

Oh that's funny because I'd definitely do the San Pedro rather than the mushrooms. I don't believe mushrooms are really any easier going in the cardio department either, but experiences probably vary.

For me mushrooms are just too heavy and mentally disorienting for me to be out and about on unless the dose is real small. I've also been surprised by mushrooms that are much stronger than I thought, but I'm sure that can happen with cacti too.

Best wishes!

 

[Deleted member 554582]

Buy a bag of coca leafs and chew...it could be helpful with altitude sickness...as to "chimora".....curranderos or most of them knows what to do usually-they won't give u such a high dose to feel uncomfortable.....I guess,I guess....if u buy fresh cacti from the witch market or so.....just don't do much..potency is variable,but I would not go over half kilo....even quarter.mescaline could be great joy,althought i never had some visuals or strong mental insights like shrooms.....more like very long dreamy state mdma trip-but that's me.....enjoy Ur ride...wish I be there

 

[moonyham]

Oh that's funny because I'd definitely do the San Pedro rather than the mushrooms. I don't believe mushrooms are really any easier going in the cardio department either, but experiences probably vary.

For me mushrooms are just too heavy and mentally disorienting for me to be out and about on unless the dose is real small. I've also been surprised by mushrooms that are much stronger than I thought, but I'm sure that can happen with cacti too.

Best wishes!

I think it's mostly the increased heart rate and vascular effects of mescaline that have pushed me to mushrooms in this high altitude leg. I know personally mescaline has always been a very heavy body load in that regard whereas my heart rate is unchanged on mushrooms.

And yes I would agree regarding mushrooms and intensity - mescaline is much more social, 'upbeat' and more like acid at least to me. However I have done it all on mushrooms, at high doses - dealt with police, been in busy malls, fending off a violent drunk, dealing with people freaking out and I did it all in stride and without negative consequence. So in that regard I feel comfortable to trip anywhere at anytime really - I am very functional while tripping on mushrooms.

Mushroom intensity is probably the biggest concern. I'm not familiar with the species here. I'm from NZ and we have pretty strong ones though. I'll be cautious and take the dosing from the guy I'm getting them off seriously. He seems very legit, I don't think he'll lead me astray.

Buy a bag of coca leafs and chew...it could be helpful with altitude sickness...as to "chimora".....curranderos or most of them knows what to do usually-they won't give u such a high dose to feel uncomfortable.....I guess,I guess....if u buy fresh cacti from the witch market or so.....just don't do much..potency is variable,but I would not go over half kilo....even quarter.mescaline could be great joy,althought i never had some visuals or strong mental insights like shrooms.....more like very long dreamy state mdma trip-but that's me.....enjoy Ur ride...wish I be there

Oh yeah you dont have to tell me twice haha. Coca leaves are abundant here, every hotel offers them for breakfast

The mescaline dosing has always been a bit of Russian roulette for me. I would go low and be cautious for sure. My most intense visuals on any trip were from 1ft of San Pedro I had left to age in darkness for 3 months. I think this is the secret to a good San Pedro brew - aging the cacti for a few months wrapped in paper in a cool dark place. It gets soft, and very dark green.

 

[chippermonk]

For what it's worth, if you go to Cusco, you can first go the Sacred Valley ( along the Urubamba River). It's generally speaking a couple thousand feet lower elevation and is an easy combi ( minivan bus) from Cusco Very beautiful and more peaceful, give yourself a few days there and you'll be ready for Cusco.
I wish I had done that when I went. The altitude in Cusco kicked my ass coming straight from sea level.

 

[PsychedelicSummer]

Altitude sickness can start above 2500 m, but it's very rare to get it below 3000-3500 m, unless flying there from sea level. A little bit of headache is normal but take some ibuprofen if it annoys you. Any severe altitude sickness usually comes within 24 h after having increased altitude over 300 m since the day before. So I wouldn't worry if you've already been there 2-3 days. Just stay hydrated and don't over exert yourself physically and you'll be fine. I've been to over 5000 m several times.

 

[iom]

The data I've seen suggests that on average at least the cardiovascular effects of mescaline are roughly similar to the cardiovascular effects of mushrooms. I've seen many people assume otherwise, and I think they tend to underestimate the effects of the mushrooms. That said, we're all a bit different, and it makes sense to go with what you are most familiar and comfortable with.

Everyone's a bit different when it comes to altitude. I know of cases in which people have had issues even at 1500m. Otherwise I agree that symptoms are likely to appear within 24 hours of ascent.