Stimulants VERY long term amphetamine/meth recovery and adhd

[dj303]

Hi there.

I have been on this forum for decades on and off. But really find myself at a desperate point in my life.

Sorry if this is a little verbose but i need to explain context.

I am almost 50 years old.
I had severe ADHD undiagnosed until i was almost 35.

i began (although i didnt know at the time) self medicating with amphetamines when i was 13 years old. It changed my life. Suddenly i went from bottom to top of almost all classes at school.

I am from the UK so we are decades behind the USA in terms of adhd.

My problem is... my amphetamine use got bigger and bigger and eventually i was using methamphetamine for almost 20

Now, i have actually managed to get clean. 3 years, 7 months and 14 days now but that is ONLY because i had an extremely beautiful and supportive wife who had a VERY well paid job and could support me when realistically i could achieve very little.

I have recently got an adhd prescription for dexamphetamine 20mg but it literally does nothing. I have experienced close to ZERO improvement in my energy, motivation, anhedonia, focus, or ability to look after myself in almost 4 years.

I struggle to even eat, excersise, socialise, wash, i can barely even cope with hobbies, socialising, or even the things that used to be fun and make up a fundamental part of my identity.

Objectively, i have enough savings and enough benefits to keep this apartment for 3 months at BEST, after that i have no friends and no family who would be able to take me in.

Is there ANY hope?

Is there ANY way to recover from 30 years of huge amphetamine use?

Please, i am not looking for advice for those of you who have experienced one or two years of big amphet use. I appreciate all of you, but I'm wondering if there are any old cats out there who have found a way through?

Otherwise for me, it means probably getting back on the amphetamines which i really don't want to do

Again. So sorry for the long post.

Yours lovingly and respectfully....

Dj303

 

[krobart]

You might look into the nootropics universe. There's a reddit community, probably others I just haven't gotten into, but that bunch has a crazy understanding of the brain.

I know you're short on cash, and some of the nootropics are pretty pricey. But there are things you can do to re-sensitize your dopamine receptors. One simple and pretty cheap helper is acetyl-L-carnitine, which upregulates dopamine receptors- spawns new little guys.

The number one combo for stimulant damage is agmatine sulfate + N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) which is widely used with great success, not just speed, pretty much every drug. Unfortunately I'm one of the people who experience anhedonia and just generally feel upset and mad about the moment- all day. Sucks. But works wonders for so many. Agmatine though is great. Helps with depression and anxiety, general wellness.

Are you trying to feel amphetamines again or just get out of the pit of despair? Modafinil+Vyvanse was prescribed to me for over a year and it helped, with other meds, get me out of being a worthless alcoholic and become a happy functioning blossoming human being. Fuck yeah. Lost that though. Cowardly doctors.

Check out life extension two per day multivitamins. They're they best many-bases-covered multivitamin. Get some healthy fats in you, get lots of cardio exercise until your limbs tingle. Accomplish small tasks and build a "fuck yeah" cycle of pride. Those things help.

Adaptogens are good. Swanson has a good holy basil (Tulsi) extract. Ksm-66 Ashwaghanda. Reishi, chaga, cordyceps mushrooms.
Rhodiola Rosea extract is the most stimulating adaptogen but you get a quick tolerance. But it sure is a nice boost.

5mthf helps a lot of people (methylfolate) 5-htp helps with serotonin. I recently tried a 5htp, passionflower, 15mg 5mthf, and small dose of one of the last adderall's of my last script, alongside betaine (TMG), alpha GPC, b vitamins and uridine and and noopept (lol, a lot of stuff) and I felt clear and fantastic and calm and connected to people for the first time in forever. It was great.

I'm just trying to get myself out of a funk. Extreme alcohol abuse has crippled me.

The quickest way to snap out of it, if you were my buddy, Id be like dude try 2 grams of this good white kratom and green kratom. The antidepressant and energy and mood effects are legit. Kratom for years helped me hold my shitshow together. It has downsides but it's pretty damn tame compared to the world of going overboard on things.

There is hope! I was absolutely on my last leg and decided to go to rehab for the 5th time. I took it very seriously, my mom had her third heart attack, and I was living in a tiny room in her husband's house, just trying to stay sane with my beer allowance.

I had the good fortune of having an excellent psych, and he was thrilled that I had actual knowledge of the brain. We bonded over brain chemistry and pharmaceutical talk. I haven't had any alcohol or weed in 16 months. Reasonably happy. I have very low and stuck points, but I am forever grateful to not be in the dumps, waking up with regret and sha.e and dread about existence and wishing I wasn't involved in existing anymore. My cat is pawing me as I type
I shall give him my attention now

 

[dj303]

You might look into the nootropics universe. There's a reddit community, probably others I just haven't gotten into, but that bunch has a crazy understanding of the brain.

I know you're short on cash, and some of the nootropics are pretty pricey. But there are things you can do to re-sensitize your dopamine receptors. One simple and pretty cheap helper is acetyl-L-carnitine, which upregulates dopamine receptors- spawns new little guys.

The number one combo for stimulant damage is agmatine sulfate + N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) which is widely used with great success, not just speed, pretty much every drug. Unfortunately I'm one of the people who experience anhedonia and just generally feel upset and mad about the moment- all day. Sucks. But works wonders for so many. Agmatine though is great. Helps with depression and anxiety, general wellness.

Are you trying to feel amphetamines again or just get out of the pit of despair? Modafinil+Vyvanse was prescribed to me for over a year and it helped, with other meds, get me out of being a worthless alcoholic and become a happy functioning blossoming human being. Fuck yeah. Lost that though. Cowardly doctors.

Check out life extension two per day multivitamins. They're they best many-bases-covered multivitamin. Get some healthy fats in you, get lots of cardio exercise until your limbs tingle. Accomplish small tasks and build a "fuck yeah" cycle of pride. Those things help.

Adaptogens are good. Swanson has a good holy basil (Tulsi) extract. Ksm-66 Ashwaghanda. Reishi, chaga, cordyceps mushrooms.
Rhodiola Rosea extract is the most stimulating adaptogen but you get a quick tolerance. But it sure is a nice boost.

5mthf helps a lot of people (methylfolate) 5-htp helps with serotonin. I recently tried a 5htp, passionflower, 15mg 5mthf, and small dose of one of the last adderall's of my last script, alongside betaine (TMG), alpha GPC, b vitamins and uridine and and noopept (lol, a lot of stuff) and I felt clear and fantastic and calm and connected to people for the first time in forever. It was great.

I'm just trying to get myself out of a funk. Extreme alcohol abuse has crippled me.

The quickest way to snap out of it, if you were my buddy, Id be like dude try 2 grams of this good white kratom and green kratom. The antidepressant and energy and mood effects are legit. Kratom for years helped me hold my shitshow together. It has downsides but it's pretty damn tame compared to the world of going overboard on things.

There is hope! I was absolutely on my last leg and decided to go to rehab for the 5th time. I took it very seriously, my mom had her third heart attack, and I was living in a tiny room in her husband's house, just trying to stay sane with my beer allowance.

I had the good fortune of having an excellent psych, and he was thrilled that I had actual knowledge of the brain. We bonded over brain chemistry and pharmaceutical talk. I haven't had any alcohol or weed in 16 months. Reasonably happy. I have very low and stuck points, but I am forever grateful to not be in the dumps, waking up with regret and sha.e and dread about existence and wishing I wasn't involved in existing anymore. My cat is pawing me as I type
I shall give him my attention now

Oh my days thank you so fucking much for your full and generous reply, genuinely thats more than i could have possibly asked of anyone.

Im sorry it took me a little while to reply, I'm really frightened about how little i can actually achieve... even typing this is gruelling but necessary of course... especially to show you the gratitude and respect you deserve for giving me some hope.

I have to admit I literally don't know what ANY of those things are except 5htp, nor where on earth i source them but will have to get googling when i can.
Its all a bit overwhelming and i dont know where to start, but i guess ill start with kratom?

Just to answer a couple of your questions Im not looking to feel an amphet buzz no. Im desperately just looking for the energy and motivation to feel like a semi functioning human being.

now my missus has gone, everything is rapidly falling apart. Like, this place is disgusting
Its just gruelling to do anything... like the amount of cleaning or housework i am able to do is next to nil, and it makes me really ashamed of myself.

I too, i think, am drinking myself to death. I dont even know why i drink. I honestly just think its boredom, but there's gotta be an element of shame blotting in there too. I didnt have a drink for 20 years but since stopping amphet i have now been drinking a bottle of vodka a day for 2 years.
I haven't even brought myself to google the implications of that but i suspect they are pretty fucking bad and i know its not sustainable.

May i ask you, you mentioned having a really good psych... was that a guy who was a specialist in addiction or adhd or just a really good general psych?

We have a different system over here of course with the nhs... my worry is i am desperate to talk to someone about what is going on. Its like im living with this dirty little secret, the amphet abuse, my family dont know, the doctors dont know, nobody knows. Meth has extreme stigma here.
Luckily its actually hard to get hold of.
But if i told my adhd guy, or if i told my general doctor then that goes on my records... they will probably stop my adhd meds all together and i know from chatting with a bunch of people that once you have "addict" on your records, any kind of treatment becomes a fucking nightmare.

May i ask, how long did you use the amphetamines for?
Do you still use?
How did you find the energy for the exercise? I KNOW that will help but i really fucking struggle to take any whatsoever.
What would you say helped most with finding some energy and motivation?
Do you manage to hold down a job?
I cant even conceive of being able to manage one right now.
Im sorry for all the questions, i have nobody else to talk to about this.

What is brealing my heart is my parents are 80 years old and they dont understand why it looks like im just unable or unwilling to help myself. They just wanna see me functioning before they pass away, and it kills me to be borrowing cash off them...

There's so much more i wanna say and ask but firstly, its not fair to ask of you.... and secondly my 3 month old cat luna is biting my feet pretty hard lol

Honestly, thank you so much. You have my absolute gratitude and respect.

Dj 303

 

[emkee_reinvented]

You might look into the nootropics universe. There's a reddit community, probably others I just haven't gotten into, but that bunch has a crazy understanding of the brain.

Another one is The Longevity Forum i used to read up there on the current situation.
Been a long while, also quite long on dextro-Amphetamine and without personal experience with Meth-Amphetamine.

dl-Amphetamine or racemic was very unlike the d-isomer.
DL has a very distinct kick/ Up & go effect.
Something a oral lower dose of dex-Amphetamine lack s.

Edit: i can mention a 2 gram dose Kratom is indeed very helpful
Though i doubt the colour matter s. I have personal preference.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

^^^ all the stuff krobart posted could be very helpful @dj303

Tell you what though, it sounds to me like your focus is askew. Nothing is getting any better while drinking a bottle of vodka a day and after 2 years of that you'd do well to addressing that as a primary concern mate

 

[dj303]

Your right man. But they go hand in hand. With proper medication and dosage, i feel zero desire to even touch a drink... its feeling utterly trapped in a body and brain thats exhausted and wont function that leads me to drink

 

[dj303]

Thank you so much to everyone that has replied.... i really should have done this sooner.... its nourishing and touching that anyone actually gives a fuck

 

[Leprechaun]

You need direction and support. Here's a quick high level program.

1. Get into a drug support program with other drug addicts or users. (It can help learning and building social connections)
2. Feed your mind motivational nutrition. (Support podcasts, motivational speeches) This will provide mental nutrition so you can build a good foundation.
3. Feed your body with nutritional meals. Remove processed foods, whole steamed or raw vegetables and fruit. Remove all refined carbohydrates.
4. Try to fix your sleep schedule so you get around 7-8 hours sleep.
5. Prepare a slow but steady physical exercise program. Start by telling yourself you'll go for a 30 minute walk every day and once a week, push this up a little, perhaps a light jog for 10 then 20 minute walk. Try to get into strength training (weights) after a month of this slow incremental growth.
6. Have a goal at the end of the year in mind, and understand it's a LONG ROAD.


Good luck! DM me if you want support, I'm happy to provide some more help.

I've never known or discussed a situation with someone who has used psychostimulants as long as you, not sure of the route of administration and doses. But change and growth CAN happen and WILL happen if you go towards it.

 

[Halif2]

its nourishing and touching that anyone actually gives a fuck

There are plenty of people on this forum that really do give a fuck because they understand what it can be like.

In my experiences of trying to get help with addiction and mental health issues through the medical system, I have come face to face with plenty of healthcare workers (doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists and such). Some of them were excellent and very sympathetic while others were actually awful, but none of them has ever been able or willing to empathise with me and my situation. Psychiatrists may be experts in the theory of brain chemistry and the impact of substances, but if you want to be "seen" by people who really understand, you need to come to Bluelight.

Anyway, this is such a sad situation OP. I'm sorry I can't offer you any practical advice, but I am really hoping that things pick up for you. Keep us posted on your journey!

 

[rentedbythehour]

I have a few notes to add as someone who has been in the state you're describing, even without amphetamine use. I am a daily user of amphetamines but for slightly less than 10 years so I might not know exactly what you're going thru. But I've been there. When there's no motivation to do anything, even get out of bed. For me, it was depression. Some of the things I did I bet will help you as well.
It is so easy to get overwhelmed and avoid any responsibility. You can't let that control your life. You have to set a goal every day. I don't care if it's to take a shower, set a goal. Once you can do one thing, add another. If you feel overwhelmed, make a list. Prioritize things that you absolutely have to do. Try to talk to someone every day. Even if it's on here. There are a lot of people here who interact every day. That can be your therapy for now. The thing is, you have to participate. Things don't just change by themselves. It does take work. I'm sure you know all this though. I always tell people to find one thing to smile about each day. It could be a beautiful sunset or a baby laughing. Just something that makes you smile. I realize that might be difficult, but once you start, you gain momentum. It gets easier.

 

[rentedbythehour]

I didnt have a drink for 20 years but since stopping amphet i have now been drinking a bottle of vodka a day for 2 years.

I just read this part. You have to be very careful if you stop drinking. Medical detox is suggested but if that's not an option, taper off over a period of time, up to 6 months if possible. 2 years is a long time to be drinking a bottle of vodka a day. Certainly long enough to have withdrawal symptoms. I know not everyone experiences withdrawal, but since it can be life threatening, it's better to go slowly.

 

[cleft]

@dj303 Your problem is two-fold. First, you need to stop your meth and alcohol habits. If you're having trouble with that, then consider ibogaine. Be careful with alcohol, since withdrawal can kill you. Second, you need to find work that you somewhat enjoy. This is gonna be the biggest challenge. Start small. Anything that gets you out of the house is great progress. The motivation that meth gives you is fake, there's nothing interesting in the regular reality that will get you excited on that level.

Your story sounds very similar to CJ Kid on YouTube, and watching him is gonna be painful for you. He said that recovery took him several years, and he dreamed about smoking meth again. Several years of boring low energy mode of living. That's what it takes to be in the 5% who recover from severe meth use. 95% fail.

 

[rentedbythehour]

That's what it takes to be in the 5% who recover from severe meth use. 95% fail.

Not necessarily. The longer you abstain, the better your chances for recovery. I believe the statistic is that 95% of those who do not get treatment will relapse within the first 3 years. Just because someone relapses doesn't mean they can't recover. Plus he's already stopped the amphetamines.

 

[cleft]

As long as schooling and work remain atrociously repetitive, designed to breed obedience and predictability, there will be a reason to consume (meth)amphetamine. Unfortunately, any suggestion for reform is met with "that will never happen", and poor souls like OP are faced with a choice between social stigma and torturous meaningless routine. Honestly, I don't think OP should stop with amphetamines unless they disrupt regular sleep and food intake.

 

[rentedbythehour]

As long as schooling and work remain atrociously repetitive, designed to breed obedience predictability, there will be a reason to consume (meth)amphetamine. Unfortunately, any suggestion for reform is met with "that will never happen", and poor souls like OP are faced with a choice between social stigma and torturous meaningless routine. Honestly, I don't think OP should stop with amphetamines unless they disrupt regular sleep and food intake.

he doesn't want to take them. He's been off them for over 3 years. Have you even read the original post?

 

[Allylbenzene]

Is there ANY way to recover from 30 years of huge amphetamine use?
...a bottle of vodka a day for 2 years.

Yes, you have several practical and effective options at your disposal which are all available OTC.

I will list them below and outline the overall strategy, which is to restore normal metabolic function, promote cellular regeneration and mitigate the various effects of amphetamine and alcohol. These options also offer sustainable alternatives which have zero side-effects - for example, alcohol is a popular anti-stress tool but has harmful effects. In contrast, all items listed below are potent anti-stress tools but have no harmful effects.

The most relevant benefit of these items is their ability to regenerate and repair the dopamine system and liver. This is most relevant for agmatine, theanine, niacinamide, taurine and creatine.

• Agmatine
• Niacinamide
• Taurine
• Thiamine
• Theanine
• Creatine
• Uridine
• Magnesium
• Pregnenolone (OTC)

 

[BadBoy377]

Hey, man.

Can't pretend to know what you're going through but I did have a meth problem way back. It was hard getting over it but you will in time.

I think you're main priority should be to get off the booze first. Once you do you'll feel a lot better and all these things mounting up like housework etc will become a lot more manageable.

Good luck,

BB

 

[dj303]

Hey hey lovely people.... honestly i find this thread actually difficult to process.... my self-esteem is soooooo far beyond being in the gutter that i find it hard that anybody cares... im not trying to sound performatively humble im just trying to say thank you.... ive lived with this secret for 25 years so its fucking NUTS to be seen and heard and makes me extremely emotional....

But to be clear.... i am FOUR YEARS clean from amphetamines after 30 years of daily use. @rentedbythehour my dear bluelighter thank you for having my back.
I appreciate all the people who care enough to post and i appreciate completely that i am a man who, on a good day could be described as articulate and loquacious, but on a bad day could be described as superfluously verbose.

Anyone who cares enough to post i extend my gratitude and my love to, but if you do have the opportunity to read my og post then i would be even more grateful
Appreciate thats not easy for everyone though.

My darling girl got knocked off her motorbike by some drunk dude in a range rover.... I was the guy that sparked her passion for 2 wheels, taught her everything, bought her the bike, and helped her pass her test so its hard for me to process that and i AM drinking to some extent because of it.

BUT.... just to be clear..... this thread is asking for advice or help or suggestions or even just love and support for long term amphetamine addiction..... and although the love and support for my loss or my drinking is super appreciated, thats not the main focus of where im coming from.

Its easy for me to find counselling for grief, or support for alchohol..... but what is virtually IMPOSSIBLE.... especially in the UK, is to find people who have used amphet/meth for 20/30 years and actually managed to get clean!!!

People my age, with that longevity of habit..... they are either dead or still doing it.... i have 6 close friends now who have had heart attacks or committed suicide because of long term amphetamine abuse..... i dont wanna be a statistic.... but.... there's zero or close to zero information out there for guys with my kind of history.....

I would guess i have, at BEST, 10 weeks to come up with some kind of solution before I am homeless, jobless, and in a serious fucking situation.

I was homeless once before for almost a year but at that time i had a massive support network, a dog, a side hustle, friends who would let me shower and sofa surf here and there, and was living somewhere very warm so i could cope with it..... i have nowhere and nobody now other than my kitten luna and my 80 year old parents who have no space and step-parents who are profoundly unsympathetic about me or my situation.....

I cant do a winter here in scotland on the streets i dont think.... not at 43...... the night shelters here are brutal as fuck. First night i ever spent in one, someone went through my backpack and stole not only my phone, but my address book I'd had for almost 20 years and set fire to it in the toilet..... just to be as absolutely cruel as possible.....


Anyway..... im not here to get my violins out... because i have so much to be grateful for.....

But... ANYONE with experience of long term stim abuse i would LOVE to hear from you.

Worst comes to worst..... i used to be a physical pen tester plus im a fan if all things pirate so if its absolutely a last resort i might just use my lock picking skills to either squat an abandoned building or stow away on a ship to somewhere warm and beautiful.....


Bwahahahahahahaha i think i would probably be the ONLY guy in the last decade who would be actually smuggling himself OUT of the uk on a small boat bwahahahHah

Love and respect and deepest gratitude for EVERYONE who has chimed in. You are all beautiful and unique

Also again @rentedbythehour you are a fucking sweetheart so thank you for having my back you sweet sweet soul.
Im utterly awful at standing up for myself so its truly humbling when other people do it for me......
Maybe standing up for myself is the wrong term but you get what im sayin like. Bless your soul xxx

 

[dj303]

Hey, man.

Can't pretend to know what you're going through but I did have a meth problem way back. It was hard getting over it but you will in time.

I think you're main priority should be to get off the booze first. Once you do you'll feel a lot better and all these things mounting up like housework etc will become a lot more manageable.

Good luck,

BB

Appreciate your advice man....and your right.... the booze is a massive problem.... but rhe first 2 years of stopping amphetamines i didnt touch a drop.... and i wouldn't now if i could actually function... for example, when i pick up my adhd script i dont touch even a sip of alcohol.... the problem is though i am 50 years old, 6ft 10 inches tall, 123 kilos, and have a 30 year amphetamine habit so what the doctors are willing to prescribe me is virtually pointless......
It leaves me with the conundrum that i can either a) take ONE everyday and have zero effect whatsoever on my ability to function OR b) i can select ONE day a week where i REALLY fucking need to get shit done and take 4/5 of them to have productive day xxx

 

[dj303]

Yes, you have several practical and effective options at your disposal which are all available OTC.

I will list them below and outline the overall strategy, which is to restore normal metabolic function, promote cellular regeneration and mitigate the various effects of amphetamine and alcohol. These options also offer sustainable alternatives which have zero side-effects - for example, alcohol is a popular anti-stress tool but has harmful effects. In contrast, all items listed below are potent anti-stress tools but have no harmful effects.

The most relevant benefit of these items is their ability to regenerate and repair the dopamine system and liver. This is most relevant for agmatine, theanine, niacinamide, taurine and creatine.

• Agmatine
• Niacinamide
• Taurine
• Thiamine
• Theanine
• Creatine
• Uridine
• Magnesium
• Pregnenolone (OTC)

Thank you that is super helpful. You are thoroughly appreciated. Any advice about WHERE i source those things?
Love and respect dj 303