• Find All Reports by Search Term
    Find Reports
    Find Tagged Reports by Substance
    Substance Category
    Specific Substance
    Find Reports
  • Trip Reports Moderator: M!$ter-ED

dl-methamphetamine - What's all the fuss?

The thing is that as I have noted before, the cathinones are drifting further and further from that which is known. It's not an 'if' but only a 'when' it turns out an RC produces long-term serious health effects BUT may take many years to be recognized.
This is something that genuinely worries me. What if a substance sets in motion some sort of slow but steady degradation of neurological/cognitive/emotional functioning that ultimately leads to an unavoidable and catastrophic negative impact on the brain.

Reminds me of a reddit post I saw once where a guy snorted a line of drywall from this house he grew up in as a celebration of knocking it down, only for someone in the comments to note that the drywall he used has asbestos in it - the guy literally just snorted asbestos particles and in a decade he may very well develop mesothelioma as a result.
Quite regularly I remind people that I've seen the instrumental data for thousands of batches of CB1/2 ligands and more than ⅓ of them contained dimers, trimers and ploymers i.e. compounds to heavy to be vapourized ahead of the flame-front but which will be pyrolized... those pyrolysis products being known carcinogens.
 
It's funny, I've had a few experiences with cathinones - methcathinone way back in the early 00s as well as 3-mmc and some of the other substituted caths that floated around the RC world in the 2010s.

Cathinones certainly have made a comeback and are loved by many people - I find them inherently less desirable than amphetamines as they can be highly euphoric and also difficult to focus. I find that the euphoria created is quite compulsive, but that compulsivity is less directed than with amphetamine. Essentially - if I take a high dose of amphetamine, especially through a quick acting ROA (snorting/smoking/injecting) it will lead to a compulsion to do more of the same repeatedly. If I were to do the same thing with a similar cathinone, it will make me seek more pleasure, but where that pleasure comes from is not focused on any one thing. This scattered pleasure seeking state that I find inherent to cathinone experiences is very unpleasant to me as it can lead to a reckless hedonism that I find difficult to manage and ultimately stressful.

MCAT was much more primitive in this effects profile, sort of a combination of cocaine and methamphetamine but less focused while still being highly compulsive. 3-mmc was more akin to meth and MDMA being combined, but again less focused and highly compulsive.

The different flavors of monoamine agonism fascinate me.
By MCAT you mean methacathinone, from the late 90s/ early 00s? I also tried it and found it less focused stimulation than amphetamines but also more spacey. Like a kinda doped up MDMA esque stimulation but easy to zone out. Nowhere as pleasurable. Definitely rushy but not as much and just kind of... different.

If so I'd be interested in hearing more on your experiences with it (by pm if you prefer). I've never met anyone else that's tried it.

Although it could be mellow and spacey it could also make you flip out and act violently almost without realizing...

Years later I tried khat and felt the similarities.
 
I think it funny that I know of at least six people who claimed to invent mephedrone. The truth is that in about 1992 some un-named Russian chemist on 'Russian Hyperlab' listed what they had (money was not listed) and explained why they thought mephedrone would be the most likely thing to work that they could produce from the chemicals to hand and what did people think...

I wasn't really interested but I DO find it fascinating that so many liars have surfaced.

Who WANTS that to be known of them? Who knows who is coming up with ever more nitazene-class compounds? I bet you it's someone who would absolutely deny all involvement (In Mandarin).
 
Last edited:
I think it funny that I know of at least six people who claimed to invent mephedrone. The truth is that in about 1992 some un-named Russian chemist on 'Russian Hyperlab' listed what they had (money was not listed) and explained why they thought mephedrone would be the most likely thing to work that they could produce from the chemicals to hand and what did people think...

I wasn't really interested but I DO find it fascinating that so many liars have surfaced.

Who WANTS that to be known of them? Who knows who is coming up with ever more nitazene-class compounds? I bet you it's someone who would absolutely deny all involvement (In Mandarin).
I've always been under the impression that it was invented by Kinetic on the Hive, although I'm not that old to gauge that information for authenticity. I did not know the HL was that old.


Definitely not Dr. Zee though \o/
 
@xdrc - I suspect that is the same person. But obviously AFTER he made the product. Before it was a little more cautious. But does anyone know who Kinetic is?
 
Who WANTS that to be known of them? Who knows who is coming up with ever more nitazene-class compounds? I bet you it's someone who would absolutely deny all involvement (In Mandarin).
Well, the sort of people going around claiming invention of this or that in a clandestine space (no matter what) are all a bit strange. But I'd absolutely love to know the intention of some of the people remaining largely in the hidden, precisely for the more polarising substances. What does the person throwing weird nitazenes, cannabinoids or absolutely questionable stimulants on the market intent? Do they believe in "better living through chemistry" or just in the green? I'm sure there are some among the more quiet ones which may have some interesting motivations and thoughts besides the money.

To not further derail the topic: I did try a single moderately sized dose of oral racemic methamphetamine hydrochloride at some point (admittedly with a mild amphetamine tolerance) and didn't think of it as anything special. I'd say orally it felt kind of the same like racemic amphetamine (also oral), just a tad smoother and longer acting. I'd say in a blind test I wouldn't be able to reliably differentiate the two from their action alone, perhaps by their duration.
 
I think it funny that I know of at least six people who claimed to invent mephedrone. The truth is that in about 1992 some un-named Russian chemist on 'Russian Hyperlab' listed what they had (money was not listed) and explained why they thought mephedrone would be the most likely thing to work that they could produce from the chemicals to hand and what did people think...

I wasn't really interested but I DO find it fascinating that so many liars have surfaced.

Who WANTS that to be known of them? Who knows who is coming up with ever more nitazene-class compounds? I bet you it's someone who would absolutely deny all involvement (In Mandarin).
One thing for sure, the inventor is definitely not that guy Dr Zee who wants to take credit for it back in the late 2000s.

Vice looked into it, here’s their article : https://www.vice.com/en/article/mephedrone-research-chemicals-history/?

Here is the original Kinetic Mephedrone post from the Hive archives : https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/novel/000423945.html
 
@Leprechaun - I'm pretty sure Kintetic is the same Russian. The original Russian posting was far more speculative. The chemist listed what they had (money wasn't one of them) and wondered aloud (so to speak) what they could make.

I strongly suspect it was the extremely low cost of those precursors in China and the relative simplicity of the chemistry that made it the most facile cathinone to produce. One presumes that quite a few people tried it and considered it salable...

But yeah, I'm glad Vice has call BS on the Dr Zee claim. I never met him but several people who did make the same comment on how arrogant he is. Benzo Fury was in a PATENT long before it became an RC but he claims credit for that one as well!

Long ago I figured out that people tend to fall into two catagories. Those who do the work and those who take the credit. I quicky worked out it was better to be in the former group as there is far less competition.
 
This is something that genuinely worries me. What if a substance sets in motion some sort of slow but steady degradation of neurological/cognitive/emotional functioning that ultimately leads to an unavoidable and catastrophic negative impact on the brain.

Reminds me of a reddit post I saw once where a guy snorted a line of drywall from this house he grew up in as a celebration of knocking it down, only for someone in the comments to note that the drywall he used has asbestos in it - the guy literally just snorted asbestos particles and in a decade he may very well develop mesothelioma as a result.
So i snorted most lightly more asbestos then Coke and Amphetamine together.
Add Radon gas, Formaldehyde, -Thioiso or thiazo whatever-Y-o-Anones,
a expedient from toothpaste till soap. Everything that on paper is not ingested.
Inhaled or got in the human body by other means, but in reality does.

It s more for the the food industry this kinda info.
Like you can t put that in food. As its a poison. Fluoride.
You may put it in toothpaste. As that is not ingested.

That means i never took Acid. i always had em under my tongue.
To find out that thing in the mouth don t get in the body.
One hell of a placebo effect it had then i am not stupid right. :cool:

Regular indoor house paint. Weakening agent s from non tested children toy s.
Bisphenol-a, Phtalaten and whatever Petrochemical we ingests on top of.
Germany has a point in testing product for baby s and kids. Thorough
And have a lower amount max for these.
NL doesn t protect its civilian s so well, they protect the producer.

And promote poisoning their civilian s, aren t we on trial for the 3-rd time,
At the EU court for this the same organ that is now directed by lil snail Rutte.

Our crooked ex-President.
Cannabis hater 'pur sang'.
Who instigated the war on drug s wearing a Heineken t-shirt.
Glass of beer in one hand. What a speech ! 🍻

A healthy dose of PAHs, PfAS, Glyphosate !
Our gift to the World we leave behind,
for what future i am trying to guess.
That aint really that important any more.

Global differences and religion still rule as distraction.
These they created to stay to disturb nature s processes like forming Fosate.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/folic-acid-glyphosate/#gsc.tab=0

Which kinda makes it futile attempt from a Flute to sound as a Trump.
Announcing Paracetamol [fuck APAP] is the culprit of Autism.
When we all know he is a pile of shit and Politician on top of it.
And Glyfosate the nr 1 nominee for causing it atm,
we all know this is non-sense as we live in a toxic environment.
we are toxin s, not suited for human consumption.

Politician s imo are if you break it worse then a toxin.
But it s the stacking that is making everything worse.
Go back 15 years ago it were 2000 + chemicals men made polluting the Earth.
So high much higher is it now.

After the OG Tefal was banned,
50 RC look likes were released in the environment.
So how high is it now 20 , 40 or 100 thousand.
Well done a steady decline since WW2. De-evolution. 🤙

---------------------------- till here -------

The form we love it. bhut we rather have no weed s at the cost of a upperlip connected. Let alone a closed spinal cord.
We rather wine, wine and wine on and on.
Hve some Booze top of with insert DOC.

And when Round up don t kill weed no more,
and just mutates all good surrounding us.
We poison the air.
Or ask the neighbouring country to place heavy industry,
Near the border, or to blow up a nuclear power plant.
Never wondered why these plants are always at the border.
or against the sea.

French do it, Belgium too. The worst part of NL.
Polluted, is at the border with Belgium.
The Western-Schelde is officially so bad. It is no longer consumable.

So i live in the drain of EU. We get residue shit from the whole EU.
Including the toxic fumes coming from the UK.

And when legislation seems updated.
A new course is already set, lets poison our kids by,
Applying copious amount s of forbidden agriculture pesticides.
With a different purpose ?

So why not put that leftover Linosipril, think Ckiche farm scandal Belgium.
They used it on Chicken illegal. Still legal to put on your pet.
For controlling pest.A healthy cat has no Flea s.
And a tic you remove yourself if 'El Gato' can t reach it.

Just give your animal the food he is after. So stop feeding grain.
Better have it eat intestines containing grain s half digested. Gross.
Though i d skip that part and just give Meat, be it muscle only.
I know muscle meat is the least wanted part,
looking through the eyes of a a animal
That is what living and Pet s are about and pet having is about.
Men can t fool nature, it always s has a backlash.

-------------------------------------------
Like we are taking Glyphsat e oyut of Round_up.
Finally, but wahatthey ftrgot to mention.
Glyphosate being dismantled as pure evil was noy the reason.
Nor pressure or the government.

It is not effective anymore, kills at best 40 %/. The truth.
So at least 50 % has become resistant.
And what did they do, swap it for the former to poison they used in it.

her s milk.

Which is loaded with the forever chemical s
So even Monsanto knows decline, they are obvious not ruled by Satan.
But by Human s, pretty infantile.

After getting some experience as Agriculturist and Cat whisperer.
I assure you Pesticides are for emergency s.
Healthy plant s and pets can stand on there own feet.
And Health is promoted by following in Nature s step s.

Not by killing it, imo a last resort.

Anecdotally my neighbouring agricukltural enthusiast s.
Whe a plague arrived there lips started mumbling 'Blablabah'.
Othneigbour 'BlaBlah bla' bneughboyur 3 'Bla Bklabnba ba ha'.

He talks native slang ! No clue what he said.

Mean while i was harvesting my perfectly good Potato s.
Never used a pesticide or artificial industrial N-P-K non sense.
But then again we also gave our baby mother s milk.
Which is loaded with the forever chemical s.

So basickly we are in the same boat,
it s just the view that is different on my side.
Aswell as the general consensus about:

what is good, bad and ugly these day s.
---- To be continued unfinished businesses.

---------------------

"MOVING back instead of forward seems to be absurd !"
Progresion or Decline was the album. A Punk rock citation from a r-Dam punk band.
Who s name i have forgotten, but Sas n Bas. Its engraved now somewhere on bluelight And after all you were right after all.

Old age dementia or a opposed environment?" Who cares LOL.
 
Last edited:
So i snorted most lightly more asbestos then Coke and Amphetamine together.
Add Radon gas, Formaldehyde, -Thioiso or thiazo whatever-Y-o-Anones,
a expedient from toothpaste till soap. Everything that on paper is not ingested.
Inhaled or got in the human body by other means, but in reality does.

It s more for the the food industry this kinda info.
Like you can t put that in food. As its a poison. Fluoride.
You may put it in toothpaste. As that is not ingested.

That means i never took Acid. i always had em under my tongue.
To find out that thing in the mouth don t get in the body.
One hell of a placebo effect it had then i am not stupid right. :cool:

Regular indoor house paint. Weakening agent s from non tested children toy s.
Bisphenol-a, Phtalaten and whatever Petrochemical we ingests on top of.
Germany has a point in testing product for baby s and kids. Thorough
And have a lower amount max for these.
NL doesn t protect its civilian s so well, they protect the producer.

And promote poisoning their civilian s, aren t we on trial for the 3-rd time,
At the EU court for this the same organ that is now directed by lil snail Rutte.

Our crooked ex-President.
Cannabis hater 'pur sang'.
Who instigated the war on drug s wearing a Heineken t-shirt.
Glass of beer in one hand. What a speech ! 🍻

A healthy dose of PAHs, PfAS, Glyphosate !
Our gift to the World we leave behind,
for what future i am trying to guess.
That aint really that important any more.

Global differences and religion still rule as distraction.
These they created to stay to disturb nature s processes like forming Fosate.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/folic-acid-glyphosate/#gsc.tab=0

Which kinda makes it futile attempt from a Flute to sound as a Trump.
Announcing Paracetamol [fuck APAP] is the culprit of Autism.
When we all know he is a pile of shit and Politician on top of it.
And Glyfosate the nr 1 nominee for causing it atm,
we all know this is non-sense as we live in a toxic environment.
we are toxin s, not suited for human consumption.

Politician s imo are if you break it worse then a toxin.
But it s the stacking that is making everything worse.
Go back 15 years ago it were 2000 + chemicals men made polluting the Earth.
So high much higher is it now.

After the OG Tefal was banned,
50 RC look likes were released in the environment.
So how high is it now 20 , 40 or 100 thousand.
Well done a steady decline since WW2. De-evolution. 🤙

---------------------------- till here -------

The form we love it. bhut we rather have no weed s at the cost of a upperlip connected. Let alone a closed spinal cord.
We rather wine, wine and wine on and on.
Hve some Booze top of with insert DOC.

And when Round up don t kill weed no more,
and just mutates all good surrounding us.
We poison the air.
Or ask the neighbouring country to place heavy industry,
Near the border, or to blow up a nuclear power plant.
Never wondered why these plants are always at the border.
or against the sea.

French do it, Belgium too. The worst part of NL.
Polluted, is at the border with Belgium.
The Western-Schelde is officially so bad. It is no longer consumable.

So i live in the drain of EU. We get residue shit from the whole EU.
Including the toxic fumes coming from the UK.

And when legislation seems updated.
A new course is already set, lets poison our kids by,
Applying copious amount s of forbidden agriculture pesticides.
With a different purpose ?

So why not put that leftover Linosipril, think Ckiche farm scandal Belgium.
They used it on Chicken illegal. Still legal to put on your pet.
For controlling pest.A healthy cat has no Flea s.
And a tic you remove yourself if 'El Gato' can t reach it.

Just give your animal the food he is after. So stop feeding grain.
Better have it eat intestines containing grain s half digested. Gross.
Though i d skip that part and just give Meat, be it muscle only.
I know muscle meat is the least wanted part,
looking through the eyes of a a animal
That is what living and Pet s are about and pet having is about.
Men can t fool nature, it always s has a backlash.

-------------------------------------------
Like we are taking Glyphsat e oyut of Round_up.
Finally, but wahatthey ftrgot to mention.
Glyphosate being dismantled as pure evil was noy the reason.
Nor pressure or the government.

It is not effective anymore, kills at best 40 %/. The truth.
So at least 50 % has become resistant.
And what did they do, swap it for the former to poison they used in it.

her s milk.

Which is loaded with the forever chemical s
So even Monsanto knows decline, they are obvious not ruled by Satan.
But by Human s, pretty infantile.

After getting some experience as Agriculturist and Cat whisperer.
I assure you Pesticides are for emergency s.
Healthy plant s and pets can stand on there own feet.
And Health is promoted by following in Nature s step s.

Not by killing it, imo a last resort.

Anecdotally my neighbouring agricukltural enthusiast s.
Whe a plague arrived there lips started mumbling 'Blablabah'.
Othneigbour 'BlaBlah bla' bneughboyur 3 'Bla Bklabnba ba ha'.

He talks native slang ! No clue what he said.

Mean while i was harvesting my perfectly good Potato s.
Never used a pesticide or artificial industrial N-P-K non sense.
But then again we also gave our baby mother s milk.
Which is loaded with the forever chemical s.

So basickly we are in the same boat,
it s just the view that is different on my side.
Aswell as the general consensus about:

what is good, bad and ugly these day s.
---- To be continued unfinished businesses.

---------------------

"MOVING back instead of forward seems to be absurd !"
Progresion or Decline was the album. A Punk rock citation from a r-Dam punk band.
Who s name i have forgotten, but Sas n Bas. Its engraved now somewhere on bluelight And after all you were right after all.

Old age dementia or an opposed environment?" Who cares LOL.
The funniest one is that Ethanol metabolizes through acetaldehyde in the human body.

Just read how toxic that shit is to your brain! 😮
 
The funniest one is that Ethanol metabolizes through acetaldehyde in the human body.

Just read how toxic that shit is to your brain! 😮
Formaldehyde is worse right like a real toxin. \
My granddad once put his feet in 'embalming fluid'
He didn t have sweaty feet s after nor skin.

Fell of in blister s glad i wasn t born yet.

When i got kids i was scared as shit so tried to only buy things that were safer.
2-nd hand as all the formaldehyde vapour-ed of by then and other volatile s.
And load s of Nature based product s avoiding the hormone disruption s.

But it gets creepyt when the list keep growing and you learn that everything not orally ingested. Is by definition not entering the body, which is total bullshit.
If your brain is functioning it would question these thing s.

That made me conclude the general population don t use there brain s.
Looking back that does seem like a more relaxed, but way more toxic start of live.
So don t take kids there are way more then enough.

And if your brain is working it Will fuck you up for good,
seeing trough the lies of a fake world society.
 
They should have given me therapy for getting through this.
It s haunting me and now any thread lead s to the same inner death-pool.
The disastrous pool of everlasting smell of Sulphur eating Bacteria.

Gonna be hard on my self not getting in that stench again.
No blanket s of text on bluelight ain t gonna help me,
i am afraid it felt draining, no way i gonna finish my reply.

The eternal wall of existence in a shit society.
Or Cucumber Kingdom. Tax paradise. Drain filter fit s me.
Maybe i should start dealing shit, or 'Jenkem', far as i know its still legal.

Just don t get high on your own supply !
 
The funniest one is that Ethanol metabolizes through acetaldehyde in the human body.

Just read how toxic that shit is to your brain! 😮

That's why there are quite regularly mass poisonings in nations where alcohol is costly or unavailable. While in most denatured alcohol contains Bitrex making it undrinkable due to taste, some nations add methanol. So imagine what formaldehyde does to the body.

Since I was a kid researchers had identified acetaldehyde as being largely the causes of the classic hangover symptoms. But five decades have passed (as I assume have most of those researchers) and nothing seems to have come of it.

I've never tried it myself but am told that tert butanol and related tertiary alcohols are subjectivly similar to ethanol but not similar enough to substitute. If nothing else, solvent grades may contain nasties, rectapure (or whatever) costs a fortune.
 
That's why there are quite regularly mass poisonings in nations where alcohol is costly or unavailable. While in most denatured alcohol contains Bitrex making it undrinkable due to taste, some nations add methanol. So imagine what formaldehyde does to the body.

Since I was a kid researchers had identified acetaldehyde as being largely the causes of the classic hangover symptoms. But five decades have passed (as I assume have most of those researchers) and nothing seems to have come of it.

I've never tried it myself but am told that tert butanol and related tertiary alcohols are subjectivly similar to ethanol but not similar enough to substitute. If nothing else, solvent grades may contain nasties, rectapure (or whatever) costs a fortune.
Tert butanol is like ethanol without the hang over, but so little of it just takes you out for a very long time due to slow metabolism.
 
IMO the fundamental dynamic that gives rise to ADHD is an overactive stress response (HPA axis, glucocorticoid system). Chronic elevated stress (cortisol) and it's partner adrenaline have several undesirable effects, especially in terms of psychoactivity.

I posted this on an ADHD thread but it's quite fitting here. This quote partly explains why pro-dopamine drugs (methylphenidate & amphetamine) and anti-adrenaline drugs (guanfacine, clonidine) are used to help with ADHD symptoms:



In this context it's not that low dopamine directly causes ADHD...but that dopamine counteracts the effects of excess adrenaline (+cortisol). This implies that pro-dopamine drugs will counteract adrenalines negative effects which helps reduce symptoms of ADHD.
The anti-adrenaline drugs used for ADHD work more directly at counteracting adrenaline. They have another advantage because they also have a pro-GABA effect. GABAergic drugs have anti-adrenaline effects which is one reason why people enjoy them.

FYI in that quote the word "steroids" just means regular hormones that cells make. Some have potent anti-stress effects (progesterone, testosterone, pregnenolone, DHEA) and others tend to promote stress-related things (cortisol, estrogen). If you search the forum you'll find reports on progesterone and pregnenolone, both are available OTC but read up before dosing.

Side note:
Some people might think progesterone is just a woman's thing but it's present in men also, just not as prominently. Women make testosterone too, just not as prominently as men.
androl tablets otr injections a good thing
 
@xdrc @4DQSAR @Leprechaun Wikipedia says that Kinetic had a Portuguese IP. Assuming it's true (big if) and taking into account that it was 2003, it's unlikely that he is Dr Zee, nor the Hyperlab guy. I also thought that Kinetic was Dr Zee from Vice.
 
@cleft - It's entirely possible that a compound is rediscovered but on past evidence i.e. 'Benzo Fury', Dr. Zee is keen to take credit for things he found in patents.

I would start with US 3001910 (1958) and read all of the patents that cite that patent. Certainly 3 and 4-CMC is covered by one of them.
 
Last edited:
Dr Zee mostly claimed to be the first distributor, which is likely true. That patent looks pretty useless, only mentions appetite suppression. Other patents say "stimulant" which isn't much info either. At this point it's irrelevant, since it won't be recommended by your local doctor.
Oh, and I really just have to say a big Fuck You to the UK Government and their stupid drug laws, since I'm high as a kite and there's nothing they can do...
I've read more posts from the hive thread. Kinetic was from the UK.
 
Well I was told that with 'Benzo Fury' there was a partner. But for whatever reasons, that partner is not taking credit. I doubt it's Melissa Cargill, but it seems that like her, it's someone who found the ideal partner. Someone who WANTS the credit.

BTW you need to actually read the patents. I'm pretty sure it's all in those 11. I read 156 patents to find one paragraph so this isn't an unusually large number to look at.
 
Last edited:
Top