Kratom My long taper with Kratom

[James_]

First of all, Id like to say a little about my self. Im 41 years old and have struggled with various types of addictions throughout my life.

I've kicked every opiates habit that one an imagine. I've gone cold turkey off of methadone, morphine, dilaudid and worse more times than I can count.

I finally got sober from opiates some 14 years ago but started drinking, which continued for 6 years. I used kratom to kick alcohol and havent had a drink in a long time.

But I find my self tapering off of kratom now and its getting tough. I've slowly tapered from a 50 gram a day habit to 6 grams per day now.

Its hard not to want to take more. Its definitely a physiological struggle. Im one of those people where drugs just go right through me. Any dose I take wears off in two hours and ill begin feeling all sorts of symptoms.

It wouldnt be an issue if I didnt have to interact with my family and work colleagues and clients every day.

I've been reducing my dose by one gram every week. Kratom is being banned in my state soon, so I have to quit.

Are there any over the counter meds, herbs or natural remedies that will help make quiting easier?

This isn't some hard core detox that im going through, but im looking for anything that will help take the edge off or subdue any symptoms that make this pain.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[A_Scanner_Darkly]

Congrats on your progress thus far. I know the last stages of the taper, especially dropping down from or off of the 5 grams per day, can be some of the hardest psychologically.

I'm pulling this partial list from the wiki on the Qutting Kratom subreddit:

• L-theanine: Found in green tea, this substance has a calming effect and improves cognition. Useful both during the day and to help with sleep.
• Ashwagandha: The "Indian ginseng," Ashwagandha is an adaptogen that improves overall well-being. Like L-theanine, can be used both day and night. "In anxiety and depression, ashwagandha has been demonstrated to be as effective as some tranquilizers and antidepressant drugs. Specifically, oral administration of ashwagandha for five days suggested anxiety-relieving effects similar to those achieved by the anti-anxiety drug lorazepam (Ativan®), and antidepressant effects similar to those of the prescription antidepressant drug imipramine (Tofranil®)": look here.
• Rhodiola rosea: Another adaptogen, this one has mild stimulating qualities (but without the jitters of caffeine). Best taken during the day. (Warning: Rhodiola has MAOI activity and could potentially interact with other meds/supplements. Be careful, do your research, and start with small amounts.)
• DLPA: A combination of the natural "L" form and the synthetic "D" form of the amino acid phenylalanine, DLPA has been shown to fight depression and reduce pain by boosting dopamine levels and preventing the breakdown of enkephalins (similar to endorphins).
• L-tyrosine: boosts dopamine.
• L-phenylalanine: Try L-tyrosine first. If the results are not satisfactory try L-phenylalanine.
• Valerian root: Sleep aid. Smells terrible but can be rather effective. Common in "sleepy" teas.
• 5-HTP: Precursor to serotonin. Improves mood and sleep. People who are taking antidepressant medications should not take 5-HTP, because in that case common side effects are : *Agitation or restlessness *Confusion *Rapid heart rate and high blood pressure *Dilated pupils *Loss of muscle coordination or twitching muscles *Heavy sweating *Diarrhea *Headache *Shivering *goosebumbs"
• Tryptophan: (propably superior to 5-HTP).
• SAM-e: Is a quick acting antidepressant.
• Chamomile and passion flower: These two herbs, widely available as teas, can help with anxiety and insomnia. At least one ex-Kratom addict has reported that, in does of 2-4 teabags, they can be very effective. WARNING: Passion flower is a MAO inhibitor, don't use it together with kratom.
• Melatonin: The body's sleep hormone, used for regulating the sleep/wake cycle. Tells the body that it's time to sleep. Taking too much (more than a milligram or two) can screw up the body's circadian rhythm and have the opposite of the intended effect. Good in combination with valerian root and 5-HTP. Some feel very groggy after taking melatonin.
• Chocolate: Contains phenethylamine, which reduces anxiety and improves mood and cognition. Buy a generous amount of dark chocolate with a high cacao concentration, and eat as much of it as you want. The more, the better. Alternatively, phenethylamine is available as a supplement.
• Magnesium: Helps with sleep. Many people believe that Calcium needs to be taking with Magnesium for absorption, but this is not true. Calcium and Magnesium actually compete for the same transport system into the blood so it is better to take them at different times during the day. The only time this competition is eliminated is in the case where calcium and magnesium are bound to a single amino acid and are called calcium and magnesium amino acid chelates, as opposed to calcium carbonate/citrate or magnesium oxide/citrate. Minerals in the amino acid chelate form have double the absorption rate of calcium carbonate and magnesium oxide because they do not have to be altered in order to enter the bloodstream. Source.

From this list, I can personally vouch for the L-theanine, ashwagandha, and magnesium. Ashwagandha worked well for my anxiety, but took 1-2 months for me to notice a difference. L-theanine and magnesium are more instantaneous. I would definitely recommend magnesium glycinate or bisglycinate, over other forms, to reduce anxiety and improve sleep.

 

[General alcazar]

Memantine
Corydalis (L-THP better)
Kava kava
Gabapentin at a low dose for the RLS
Something I’ll try next time I decide to quit is high dose ascorbic acid…

 

[JackARoe]

But I find my self tapering off of kratom now and its getting tough. I've slowly tapered from a 50 gram a day habit to 6 grams per day now.

Its hard not to want to take more. Its definitely a physiological struggle. Im one of those people where drugs just go right through me. Any dose I take wears off in two hours and ill begin feeling all sorts of symptoms.

Good luck. I have found quitting kratom is as hard as quitting smoking. As you said it not some hard core physical stuff, but the pull is like nicotine. And we know nicotine is so stubborn. People have had lungs removed and could not quit.

Good work on 50 gr to 6. I am one where the dose lasts me 9-10 hours then feel a little tired. I have known people that used every 2 hours with issues. I am also tapering, not too bad, but I always dosed like 10-12 hours apart. From 50 to 20 gr. It was painless going slow. So my advise is ignore what happens at 2 hours and start spacing the doses so your body adjusts.

With leaf their is a lot of precedence in states to keep it legal. Over the years some most states complied. Then came 7-OH pills, and that caused issues. Thankfully you are just talking plain leaf. I would be surprised if another state made the leaf illegal after years of momentum to keep it legal..

That list above is excellent. Also I cannot recommend gabapentin enough. It wipes most of the annoying psychological symptoms. I would take it every other day for a weak after I quit. A lot of relief. Also plain leaf will balance out and exit the body easy as you adjust. New habits are needed to help with psychological pulls.

Don't underestimate the psychological pull. Quitting smoking caused me to be tired, hungry and calm. All easy withdrawal symptoms. Yet the psychological pull made it almost impossible. How can that be?

 

[General alcazar]

Quitting kratom can be very hard. I quit smoking after 20 years and it was cake compared to nasty physical kratom withdrawal symptoms, and months of PAWS afterwards. The PAWS is what ultimately led me back to using. I just couldn’t get past the fatigue and depression this go-around. The severity of withdrawals depend on the length of time using, and amount being used. Each time I’ve stopped, it’s been worse.

 

[JackARoe]

PAWS is something I never got thankfully. It is possible people use opiates to mask depression, and that I can see. I had quit heroin, methadone and opiates on and off for 40 years. Poppy tea and methadone being the hardest. My last kratom kick was about 8 years ago and at least the acute part left quick. I will say the lethargy stuck around for a month or so. Exercise helped get me past that.

I may be a strange one, but after I kick an opiate habit I feel strong and more in control. Never had PAWS, and am glad there was no internet on my heroin/methadone kicks back then. I always felt great and planned on some vacation to get my head right after a kick. I mean if you succeed you just wrestled a bull to the ground. Makes someone tough. Feel good about that. Newer habits can help. A psychedelic trip AFTER the physical part can help with adjustments.

I am going to post about my kratom quitting too and be honest. Probably will start my own thread. I already go 24-48 hours without kratom with the help of gabapentin. Right now I get lethargy and sneezing. I am not bedridden like a poppy tea kick. Maybe that makes it worse. I just finished a big duty, so am going to keep dropping.

I will stress the exercise and on and off gabapentin. A tiny dose of DXM will help a bit too. I understand gabapentin can be used for some days before that becomes a dependence. Although I am prescribed gabapentin I only use it occasionally. So I don't know about the addiction and if it happens.

If I were the OP, and I had time and money on my side I would go CT from the 5 gr. But the biggest dilemma is not having time, having to work and navigate the symptoms through those duties and it gets hard. But it is already hard. Life was hard when I was at 50 gr too.