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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2
- Thread starter Le Junk
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PsychedelicSummer
Bluelighter
Gemini sucks, way to PC. I alternate between Grok, DeepSeek and chatGPT.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Yeah Gemini was being a little goodie-two-shoes bitch and refused to help out at all due to the subject matter and Google traditionally cow-towing so hard to their advertising partners' wishes that they try to make everything they touch perfectly ultra-Disney-safe. It's so lame and obsequious of them.
Grok pretty much nails it like DeepSeek did (though Deep Seek's was better, I felt), concluding:
Claude was a little too involved and I lost interest when I tried it out. It just wanted to teach me how to develop code really badly…
PsychedelicSummer
Bluelighter
Agreed. IMO DeepSeek often give the best, detailed, answers if not on current topics - for which Grok is probably best. ChatGPT is often close. Gemini is just useless propaganda Claude & Copilot good for coding, but beaten by the others in other topics.
Re-reading the DeepSeek answer I do come to disagree regarding the enantiomer hypothesis, where a (S) heavy MehDMA is described as more speedy.
IME MehDMA lacks speedyness.
That MehMDMA severely mutes the effects of 2C-B (and IIRC I think other psychedelics as well), speaks to that MehDMA has something in it that cause 5-HT-2A antagonism or 5-HT-5A competetive agonism. From my understanding, variances in enantiomers should not cause this. But this really isn't my field of expertise, so if my reasoning is off, please correct me.
So in large scale MDMA production, using PMK, what byproduct(s) could be causing 5-HT-2A antagonism or 5-HT-2A competetive agonism may be the question that could bring more clarity to the mystery of MehDMA. But I suspect that many byproducts never have been investigated regarding their 5-HT-5A receptor binding.
Regarding the ChatGPT summary, I sort of disagree regarding:
IME classic MDMA can have an afterglow for days or even weeks, as well as suicide Tuesdays. MehDMA just feels somewhat neurotoxic to me with a bit of that toxic feeling and tiredness the next day. No emotional up- or down turns afterwards.
Re-reading the DeepSeek answer I do come to disagree regarding the enantiomer hypothesis, where a (S) heavy MehDMA is described as more speedy.
IME MehDMA lacks speedyness.
That MehMDMA severely mutes the effects of 2C-B (and IIRC I think other psychedelics as well), speaks to that MehDMA has something in it that cause 5-HT-2A antagonism or 5-HT-5A competetive agonism. From my understanding, variances in enantiomers should not cause this. But this really isn't my field of expertise, so if my reasoning is off, please correct me.
So in large scale MDMA production, using PMK, what byproduct(s) could be causing 5-HT-2A antagonism or 5-HT-2A competetive agonism may be the question that could bring more clarity to the mystery of MehDMA. But I suspect that many byproducts never have been investigated regarding their 5-HT-5A receptor binding.
Regarding the ChatGPT summary, I sort of disagree regarding:
| Feature | Classic / Magic MDMA | “Meh” / Subpar MDMA |
|---|
| Comedown / afterglow | Gradual, often mild | Abrupt, often worse hangover |
IME classic MDMA can have an afterglow for days or even weeks, as well as suicide Tuesdays. MehDMA just feels somewhat neurotoxic to me with a bit of that toxic feeling and tiredness the next day. No emotional up- or down turns afterwards.
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Complete GIGO.
Input to AI is a thread with a SNR approaching zero. Unless the AI has an external source of truth and can judge the solidity of the user statements in the thread the signal in the AI output is also inevitably approaching zero. This thread and its progenitor contains a lot of dubious claims and statements not backed by any evidence or deeper knowledge but the AI equal weights them.
AI is programmed to blow smoke up the user's butt. So users like the AI answer, the AI developers know manipulation of the user is easier than delivering any truths or real intelligence.
AI is poisoning the well of human knowledge and enthusiastic clueless monkeys clap and cheer inanely.
YMMV but that is what it appears to be.
AI can now animate this roach of a thread
Input to AI is a thread with a SNR approaching zero. Unless the AI has an external source of truth and can judge the solidity of the user statements in the thread the signal in the AI output is also inevitably approaching zero. This thread and its progenitor contains a lot of dubious claims and statements not backed by any evidence or deeper knowledge but the AI equal weights them.
AI is programmed to blow smoke up the user's butt. So users like the AI answer, the AI developers know manipulation of the user is easier than delivering any truths or real intelligence.
AI is poisoning the well of human knowledge and enthusiastic clueless monkeys clap and cheer inanely.
YMMV but that is what it appears to be.
AI can now animate this roach of a thread
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
I think this further illustrates that the phenomenon is not confined to just one source or one cause for it to occur. You know, bc I think sometimes the chemists are running certain steps with too much heat in an effort to speed up the process of manufacturing. This can break apart the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring and excess heat used during reductive amination can affect the enantiomeric output and during any of these stages multiple opportunities for impurities and side products can make their way into the end product matrix that will test positive for MDMA, but without refined testing will not reveal how it's overall composition includes previously unidentified compounds and unbalanced enantiomeric mixtures that negatively impact the qualitative effects one ordinarily expects and experiences from 3,4-MDMA hydrochloride. So it might not be accurate to conclude that everyone's MDMmeh experience is similarly lacking in CNS stimulation.
To a degree, MDMA does mute the effects of psychedelics somewhat for me. For instance, I trip much harder just taking acid by itself instead of combining it with MDMA, and that's taking it before, after, or at the same time. MDMA—in addition to being a releasing agent of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin—it also acts as a partial, weaker reuptake inhibitor. Eventually, MDMA blockades its own activity, which is why the hardest part of a roll is in the beginning, during the first four hours or so. People will chase that high because they don't realize that you can't just force that magic to come back. And I figure using MDMA really depletes the brain's serotonin reserves which are pivotal to LSD and other psychedelics' method of action. Btw, you mentioned 5HT5A receptors, but I think those have something to do more with promnesic and amnesic effects unless I'm missing something here. Did you mean 5HT2A receptors? That's the one all classic psychedelics affect to some degree.
That's not a fair statement. It's only useless on this and other specific topics of controversy, but the vast majority of its capabilities seems on par with its peers. It's just censored in unnecessary and frustrating ways.
And let's not forget: these AI tools have shortcomings and are occasionally prone to AI hallucination. I like to take what they say with a grain of skepticism hydrochloride salt.
Didgital
Bluelight Crew
I do not think having AI do a synopsis on thread is very helpful since 97% of the thread is still just speculation.
Didgital
Bluelight Crew
If you followed this thread, youd know i work at an analytical laboratory, have tested dozens if not hundreds of MDMA samples over the past few years and i post results. im one of the few who has posted any data and not just subjective reports (i saw this happen, my friend told me so and so. If i ignore those reports its not that i dont put stock into them, however without hard data they only fuel further speculation.
In my 2 years at the lab, the lowest purity sample i saw was 95% with the vast majority over 98%.
MDMA is not a difficult thing to make nor purify even for a pretty newb chemist.
In other news i just scooped agilent 6520A quadropole time of flight mass spectrometer im hooking up to my HPLC. As well as a polarimeter that can differentiate between the isomers. So... i am very well equipped.
Didgital
Bluelight Crew
Btw i really want to applaud @unodelacosa for always keeping the peace and relaying facts. Thank you so much.
Hey is this. What I think is THE VECKTOR?
I believe you we are had helped us with the NMR results? Your I believe wife reached out to me in PM, she didn't want to say much. This was a few years ago. So if you are in glad to hear you are still around. I don't remember if it was something MAJOR or something minor. But she messaged me in a PM and said something happened I don't want to talk about it here. But if you are in glad to see are you well if this was you? If you need me or mods to modify this upper half please let me know. Otherwise I'm glad to hear you are still around here. You can PM me privately if you want the top part removed. Or feel free to reach out to the mods. But it's been awhile, so I'm glad to see you here.
I agree Complete GIGO. Lately I've been turning meh into so really ultra pure stuff. And everyone really didn't have a complaint
I did have 1 person complaining but I just sent him a second crop. More like flat blades vs little rock pebbles and the second one was more Brown. He was happy with that. But there's a LOT nasty shit that a normal acetone wash won't work on. Complete GIGO
PS The reviews I've gotten on it are we as follows, " ultra clean and amazing fantastic stuff." "Reminds me of the MAPS product you claimed to have had before the dude went into retirement."
Reviews of that nature.
And while it's not hard to clean it. There's also always the loss of not only yield and time. But also manufacturers know this. And what better then a cut as impurities as it seems most labs of whatever reason miss it.it appears a acetone or ethanol wash doesn't remove anything on my experience. No idea if ethyl acetate would be better for a wash.
The proper way would OBVIOUSLY be to do an acid base extraction, then redisill the freebase SLOWLY. Then either re gas or HCL gas into pure solvent and use that as the titrate. Might as well divide it up and even go for oxalate salt and sulfate salt to see if there's a difference no?
That leaves either, a chromatography column. Which IDK would help a bit if we knew WHAT the F we attempting to target or remove? I mean should we run a tlc plate to maybe help?
Granted doing any of those is probably WAYYY more advanced then most people knowledge on this forum to me that leaves only...
A recrystallization and potentially a double recrystallization. It's not "hard" but when you do it enough you start to learn and understand, how it's not just chemistry or science it's a special type of art form to recrystallize.
Boil a little too much solvent off, God damn it, I oiled it out. Or why the F am I only getting brownish sand and crashing out of solution so damn quick, where the F are the prism blades or some nice little pebble rocks. It's definitely not hard or impossible but you learn what they ment when they said that now XD
Also to the manufacturer impurities are potentially a cop out to have a undectable cut/bulk weight. It also saves them time, the AVG end user who pickups 1-7g doesn't want to end up with a few $100 out of pocket, the middle Wholesaler might now want to risk it for a multiple of reasons including where I'm located, even just simple purification of any drug. Doesn't matter what it is. In court and law enforcement eyes in my state that's drug manufacturing all the same to them so If it sells it sells, that leaves only a few of us left that either are willing to go to the lengths to crack this.
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One question and or some input? scooped agilent 6520A quadropole time of flight mass spectrometer? Though granted I think I kinda get the difference between that and MALDI with QTOF reading a bit more now. Anyways
So take this with a grain of sodium chloride but just wanted a little input. As most of my self taught background was organic and inorganic chem, more recently a touch of analytics so you would be better suited to ask you/ talk to my friend that did the NMR etc. so sorry if this seems like something I should know. But you are talking with a guy who is self taught and basically said, yeah I'm not gonna learn nomenclature or let alone smiles.. however when someone i know in university going to med school, was talking about one of her final projects on brain chemistry and some kinda was i believe undocumented in academic papers, and was essentially a carboline nitrostryene or nitopropene variant. I did give myself credit on nomenclature on the structure of the molecule and told them wait, why can I see this compound and draw it if you ask me to XD ... Anyways
At the same time we ran the NMR on a know meh and magic batch. we ran preliminary GC/MS to see why the numbers or "pure baseline" ie was it THEIR equipment at energy control? Maybe the technician was new, or it hadn't been calibrated recently... at least much less so then probably university lab .. Etc etc..maybe the university has a MUCH MUCH greater reference database etc etc..
I believe HPLC AS WELL before turning to and looking at the NMR results that were uploaded here. All MDMA we tested passed with extremely high results like 96-98%+. Including MALDI they all had the same mol weight but meh and magic. We didn't notice any discrepancies between any of the compounds until a NMR 1H 13C TOSY Cosy etc was done. I also remember the MALDI was done and all the same weight, but one I believe had MDMMA? the other detected MDP2-POL? HOWEVER both the magic, and 2 meh passed MALDI and most standard tests we rain it thru a "really high purity"
We are also missing XRD XPS XRF SCXRD or alike for the structure of what form.. unless you also have access to that as well?
“That last three percent… it may not sound like a lot, but it is." It's tremendous
"I would need a gas chromatograph to be sure.."
Gas Chromatography (GC) separates a mixture into individual components based on their chemical properties, while GC-Mass Spectrometry (GC-MS) combines this separation with mass spectrometry, which then identifies each separated component by its mass-to-charge ratio. GC provides separation and can quantify components, whereas GC-MS provides a much higher level of identification, making it ideal for complex samples where both separation and definitive identification are crucial.
So I'm not doubting either you skills OR your equipment. But not having all the equipment we are definitely potentially missing something...
I say this because, before this entire debacle here. I had some Xanax that was NOT BITTER. Like none. Like it would not dissolve well in any solvent I believe I tried, PG, ethanol, and water.
Now taking a HUGE and I MEAN HUGE finger dip DID NOT DO SHIT. Know I'm not saying maybe I did or didn't have a tolerance. But I know I should have felt SOMETHING doing a THUMB PRINT worth of the dang Xanax. And I felt nothing? Note that with my OLD stuff that was NMR confirmed with caslava or luckyduck back in the day maybe quantix? Proper dilution at 1ml = 1 mg HAD ME FUCKING WRECKED.on 1mg. This junk yellow stuff which maybe, later in hindsite MIGHT of worked if I attempted to turn 10g of yellow powder into a yellow bus... Eitherway this bunk Xanax...
I sent it into energy control and the results came up 99% pure Xanax. How, why? I have no idea. Just food for though
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I've noted this in other threads but I look at the non-chemical explanations in addition to any isomeric differences that may be at play:
It can be ANY and I MEAN any number of things. I did reach out to MAPS AGES ago, when I encountered my meh batch after I gave someone some safrole and gave me some in return sorta deal. Was 100% meh, like 300mg and you just needed to keep doing more and more. Even the person who did the NMR felt it was seriously off.. anyways I believe that was extra methylamine he said, at least what I figured out after he went over his note. Talking to MAPS someone REALLY high up. I don't think it was Doblin but ... The chemistry of MDMA is not a given, and requires expert development to get to the commercial standard we need
to ensure patient access and safety at scale. However, it should not be expected that we will stop learning about the chemistry
of this compound; changes in manufacturing process, scale, and product formulation can bring with them new challenges and lessons.
The level of detail, in purification in every step is absolutely insane. I imagine most would just distill the freebase or the intermittent precourser and at best most likely use bisulfite to chicken fat it something.
This document should be HEAVILY REDACTED PER FORUM RULES
I did reach out to MAPS at least to try and get an answer or 2 awhile ago. While I might not be 100% completely accurate. I do remember MAPS have or work on 4 batches And online research kinda all lines up to the story. At no point from who the person I spoke to was very adamant that the person that RECIEVED the drug aka not placebo did the person who got real MDMA did not encounter meh effects we have reported over the years. They were VERY forward that no matter which path they took they never had heard of this meh vs magic phenomenon...
Doblin pointed out, MDMA lacks an “entourage effect,” where different compounds work together to create greater benefits or a different kind of high. “You’re extracting precursors [from a natural source], then chemically modifying them to get MDMA,” Doblin said. Regardless of which precursors the chemists are starting with, the end product made in these labs is still the same compound: high-purity MDMA. “It’s the placebo effect,” said Doblin. “Plant-based MDMA is no different in any way at all, but people think ‘natural’ is better.”
“Plant-based MDMA is no different in any way at all, but people think ‘natural’ is better.”
the last being the cGMP processing we know today. Was told a few things that may be noone really knows. But I did SPEAK to someone VERY VERY high up at MAPS once. Probably helped at the time their headquarters were right up the street/ I did volunteer work for em.
Inside the Quest to Make “Plant-Based” MDMA
Is plant-based, fair-trade MDMA the future of psychedelic medicine...or just hype?
doubleblindmag.com
The first batch was made by Dr. David Nicholas in the 70s ish when safrole was not regulated. They obtained a 99.x purity for phase I trials.
The second route, after the clamp down was a small batch using catechol.it was messy but they really wanted it to be viewed as "natural". MDMA derived from natural sources just sounds a lot better, even though it’s not anything different from a safety perspective
“We’ve learned from polling like we did in Oregon [and]Colorado that we can pass plant-based medicines, but synthetics are a bridge too far,” said David Bronner, CEO of Dr. Bronner’s soap and a major advocate in the psychedelic movement. “MDMA derived from natural sources just sounds a lot better, even though it’s not anything different from a safety perspective,” he said. “But just for electoral voting reasons, that’s a way better framework.”
The 3rd route when I actually called probably circa 2017-2019? They were DEFINITELY 100% GOING the Piperonal route. They in fact flat out told me this when I encountered my meh and started posting here. No idea of these were "official" trials or what. But was somewhere between phase 2 and phase 3
. I was personally excited, too, since SPS’ final proposal had selected as a precursor a compound used in flavoring and perfumery, and I have a personal interest in fragrance chemistry.
Since we signed the contract with SPS, we have received regular communications from members of their team in the UK. After resolving a small issue obtaining a license from the British Home Office to manufacturer a controlled substance, SPS began taking the first steps in formulating a production route. They send us biweekly reports of each step in the process, including any snags or difficulties they encounter. At one point, we received images of test results from the material. We are fortunate to have the expertise of David Nichols and a Swiss pharmacologist in this process, whom we include in our correspondence with SPS.
Smith is thus placing his bets on being able to convince Lykos that switching over to his more sustainable, fair trade, and ethical version of MDMA will give them a competitive market advantage over other pharmaceutical companies’ generic versions.
Compared to psilocybin mushrooms or cannabis, Doblin pointed out, MDMA lacks an “entourage effect,” where different compounds work together to create greater benefits or a different kind of high. “You’re extracting precursors [from a natural source], then chemically modifying them to get MDMA,” Doblin said. Regardless of which precursors the chemists are starting with, the end product made in these labs is still the same compound: high-purity MDMA. “It’s the placebo effect,” said Doblin. “Plant-based MDMA is no different in any way at all, but people think ‘natural’ is better.”
Still, there’s a long way to go before Ford’s dream of fair-trade, sustainably-grown MDMA can become a reality. According to Martins, he would need to go back to planting the Piper hispidum plant himself to reach the global scale that Smith is promising, which would require buying more land, hiring specialists, and investing heavily in irrigation and transport. In 2020, Martins quoted Smith 1.5 million reais (USD $256,764.37), which is probably much higher after adjustments for inflation. The hope that Lykos will buy the fair-trade version and psychedelic activists will get measures on future ballots or get resolutions passed by city councils also remains purely within the realm of speculation.
Eventually they did a fundraiser, they even still had MULTIPLE kilos of 99.9 or whatever from David Nicholas from Perdue but going forward the government required GMP.
I also learned that what we had considered to be a large batch of MDMA is actually considered small in the realm of drug manufacturing. Representatives from several firms told us that they could just
as easily make a kilogram of MDMA as they could 100g or 500g, so the price would be almost the same. Since that was the case, trying to determine exactly how much MDMA we would need for Phase 3 trials was not necessary. If the price is similar and we can further more research by bringing more GMP MDMA into the world, then why not order a kilogram. Eitherway a LOT of people got pissed off considering they were getting single for way less. No I won't mention COSTS at the time. AND I only gave the 500,000 number because well context of a pharma vs street. I had expected that manufacturing a chemical that is over 100 years old to be a simple process, like making widgets. I thought that there was a set of directions that all pharmacologists and chemists would know that would produce MDMA. However, from our discussions and exchanges during the search, we learned that building a chemical is more akin to cooking or artwork: finding a cost-effective, high-yield route to making a future medicine is a creative process of discovery, not to be found in a single set of directions.
Need for funding
The manufacture of GMP drugs is not cheap. The total cost of one kilogram of MDMA from SPS is approximately $400,000, not including the cost of encapsulating and packaging our finished product. To give further perspective, the MDMA for a single treatment session costs $75, while the MDMA for three sessions (one course) costs $250. We recently raised about $150,000 for GMP MDMA from our 30th Anniversary and our Global Psychedelic Dinners last spring, but the remaining funds needed to purchase this MDMA are still significant. Before 2016 comes to a close, I hope you will support this crucial step in making MDMA a prescription medicine.
If it needs to be edited mods please let me know but that's the buissness rate not the street rate... I did probably help that Dr. Bronners was willing to MATCH 50% up to 250k or something like that? I'm sure that definitely took a bit of the sting. They even retested to make sure it was still 99.9% but the government said GMP for this round or get out.
In the context of drug manufacture, the word “commercial” is an important distinction, as it indicates a different standard of production. As we move through the study phases, the requirements for manufacture, analytical testing, and release change and become more stringent for both investigational (unlicensed, clinical-only) active pharmaceutical ingredient (API) and for drug product (the finished dosage form, e.g., capsule or tablet). Good manufacturing practices (GMPs) apply to all, but the level of detail and documentation required increases with exposure and risk. In other words, the regulatory requirements for an investigational drug used in small early-phase trials, manufactured on a small scale without the need for multiple-batch reproducibility, is different than for investigational drugs used for larger, late-phase trials or commercial products (wherein batch sizes can be many orders of magnitude larger and are part of multiple-batch, routine manufacturer
Since the first late-phase GMP API campaign carried out by the MAPS CMO, there has been much development work around the four-stage chemical synthesis which forms the basis of the manufacturing process. The chemical purity of the API used by MAPS in any clinical trial has always been extremely high, >99.9%, and that standard has been maintained through scale-up. The focus of the development work on the planned commercial synthetic route has been to support batch reproducibility at a higher scale, validation through intermediate parameters, and ease of stage reaction processing and optimized yield—put more simply, making the reaction easier and cleaner with a higher output of material for the same inputs.
This activity has been carried out through multiple ascending-scale reaction experiments for each of the stages, culminating in 15 experiments for each of the intermediate reactions, to define what is called a ”design space” that gives the parameters offering the desired purity and yield.
However, even with this appropriately thorough approach from small-scale to large-scale development, the design space that was defined for Stage 2 of the reaction was shown to not completely predict the outcome. The model that was produced was just a model, and one that produced an unexpected result. More experiments were then completed to understand the issues that related broadly to the larger-scale equipment and the different agitation levels required to get the purity needed for intermediate stages of the synthesis.
Another significant lesson from the last 12 months of API development work was the discovery of two new polymorphic forms of MDMA, never seen previously in the literature. A polymorph refers to a well-defined crystalline structure, where the molecules are attached to each other in a repeatable pattern. A good example of this is C6 (carbon). Carbon will bond to itself six times to form the commonly known “benzene ring” molecule. However, the way these C6 molecules bond to each other can take different crystalline or polymorphic forms, such as diamond vs graphite. Both polymorphs are the same molecule—but one, diamond, is the hardest substance known and the other, graphite, one of the softest. This is an extreme example, but clearly shows why it is so important to understand the chemistry of any molecule that is being developed for human use.
Thankfully, in the case of MDMA, the polymorphism is not as extreme as carbon. But previously in the literature, based on the limited investigations, there was thought to be only one polymorph form of MDMA (“The ecstasy and the agony; compression studies of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine [MDMA]”, Acta Crystallographica Section B Structural Science, Crystal Engineering and Materials, 2015).
This MDMA polymorph form is the same that has been used in all MAPS sponsored studies to date, now known as “Form 1,” previously characterized through X-ray powder diffraction (XRPD). It is by far the most stable of the forms, and to force the MDMA molecules into the new polymorphs (Form 2 and Form 3) it requires manipulation using different solvents and crystallization techniques. Both Form 2 and Form 3 are metastable to Form 1, meaning that they easily revert to Form 1. However, now that their presence is known, identification of these forms has been added to the release and stability specifications via a method sensitive enough to identify them (even in small quantities relative to Form 1).
Some clandestine labs reliably produce large quantities of high-quality MDMA; (23) however, these facilities necessarily operate outside of regulatory frameworks and certainly do not report or document cGMP-compliant procedures.
Why MAPS is different HEAVILY REDACTED PER FORUM RULES.
I've read this route was SPECIFICALLY chose not just for scale but also clean or prevent up of any abnormal dimmers etc.etcClandestine chemists preparing MDMA for the black market have additionally developed a number of synthetic routes from readily available starting materials like catechol eugenol isosafrole and piperine though most still approach MDMA through a safrole or (less frequently) piperonal intermediate. These synthetic methods often rely on chemicals readily available to ordinary consumers, in an effort to circumvent controlled substance precursor regulations. Most of these clandestine syntheses are well-documented, both by anonymous chemists, in online forums, and by forensic scientists, who often identify clandestine production methods by their distinct impurity profiles.
A Huber Unistat was used for temperature control and logging. In-process analysis was conducted by HPLC, with supplemental 1H NMR analysis used to quantify residual solvent content during evaporation steps. A wiped-film evaporator was used for distillation. All processes were conducted under nitrogen (target: <5% O2). Residual solvent testing was performed on an Agilent J&W DB-624 HRGC column (60 m × 0.32 mm, 1.80 μm film thickness).
analysis of multiple batches, from a range of suppliers, indicated that the only significant impurities present in the batch are 5,6-dibromo-1,3-benzodioxole and succinimide, which is insoluble in Compound 11 and consequently present in only very trace amounts. We additionally screen for the presence of 4-bromo-1,3-benzodioxole, which would likely present separation challenges during production, but we have never observed this isomer in the starting material. At the levels observed, neither of the two significant impurities interfered with the downstream chemistry
Removed by skorpio
MDMA·HCl was previously known to form one major crystal form (Form I) and at least four hydrates that incorporate 0.25–1 waters of hydration. (16) Our polymorphic screening process identified two new anhydrous crystal forms (Forms II and III) and established Form I as the most stable of the three. Form II can be reproducibly produced from a variety of alcoholic solvents, as well as in the presence of ethyl acetate and an ethereal antisolvent. Unlike Form III, which spontaneously converted to Form I after 2.5 weeks at ambient conditions, and could not be reproduced, Form II is shelf-stable, though it will convert to Form I under competitive equilibration conditions. Interestingly, both Form I and Form II reversibly convert into the known monohydrate; upon dehydration, the monohydrate formed from Form I will revert back to Form I, and the monohydrate formed from Form II will revert back to Form II. If crystallized from a concentrated aqueous solution with no form memory, the monohydrate will thermally dehydrate exclusively into Form I.
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Yes, the enantiomer ratio would not cause this.
This contrast between the interaction with 2C-B something very significant ...yet ignored by the proponents of the set & setting, tolerance theory.
Also, didn't you mean 5-HT-2A ?
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I don't remember the 1H 13C TOSY COSY spectra being ever posted in this thread.
How much would it cost to obtain them again ?
I haven't checked personally, but I've heard that the MehMDMA is slowly disappearing from the marketplace. Is this correct ? Is it worldwide ?
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1ve posted them here. Search this thread with the tags NMR and my username
Last batch of magic was ran thru NMR 13C and 1H , HPLC and MALDI 4/15/2020. I might beable to pull the bruker still. But I think we need the Meh samples more then magic at this point honestly.
pretty sure the first time ran COSY and TOSY as well. I dont have the energy to go back 350 pages for it.
Kykeon analytics does em now. My friend graduated
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It is YOU. glad to see your back
What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
So I went to the Drugs Data site for donating but it ultimately sent me to Erowid.. Yea he’s the only person who’s actually given us the time of day. I remember earlier in my days of researching this topic (fuck 7/8yrs ago now..) I emailed him regarding old 90’s ecstasy submissions and he got...
www.bluelight.org
There a 3rd one somewhere around there
Do you mean this one: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14686540 ?
If so, it's definitely more like the meh plot (...579.pdf). They both have an extra peak at 3.5 - 3.7ppm and are both missing the peak around 4.9ppm that the magic sample had.
The magic sample looks just like the reference NMR plot from this paper: https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1201&context=jj_pubs However, they mention something about 4.5 - 4.7ppm being a peak from the water used in the sample prep. So should that be ignored? How come it isn't in the other two plots?
Ok, so check out UN doc: Recommended methods for testing illicit ring-substituted amphetamine derivatives
On page 37 onwards there are reference 1H NMR plots.
The magic sample (...207.pdf) seems to match the reference MDMA HCL in D2O (page 45)
The meh sample ( ...579.pdf) appears be closest to MMDA base in CDCl3 (page 44). Not a super close match but I think its the best on my initial look
The other meh sample (...312.png) perhaps is also closest to MMDA but even less good a fit
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Kykeon Analytics - Psychoactive Substance Analysis
A non-profit organization offering professional, confidential testing services and harm reduction tools for psychoactive substances.
Can you perform custom analyses?
Yes! We are happy to perform a custom analysis for your sample. If you would like us to do a custom analysis for your sample, for instance doing a specific NMR or mass spectrometry experiment, or if you want us to follow a specific extraction procedure or quantify a specific minor alkaloid in a plant, then please don’t hesitate to contact us with your request. We always strive to find solutions for each user’s specific needs and we are always happy to expand the analyses that we offer.